Meta Madhouse Throwdown on Themyscira Discussion and Debates

Personally I am disappointed about the SG vs PG result, the Hawkgirl vs Batgirl result and especially Black Canary over Big Barda.

While I had Batwoman over Thunder I was very surprised that the voting wasn’t closer.

“Brand name” recognition certainly has its advantages.

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I was going to mention Hawkgirl v Batgirl too, at least that one was close, and you could make the argument that they’re evenly matched. However, I agree with @ODannyBoy’s assessment that Hawkgirl being reincarnated gives her more experience, also, practically, with flight, she could pick up BG and drop her, theres little Babs could do to escape that one.

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Results have been posted.

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Benjamin Le Clear, I love you.

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Barda with the first save. What a twist.

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I was actually surprised that Miss Martian won that matchup, even though I thought she had the edge, cuz she could attack in the one way Orphan is not prepared to fight. Fighting against herself in her own mind. Using her trauma as the attack, it worked. A bit ruthless…but survive and advance is what matters.

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Like I said in my earlier post, you have to imagine these are knock down, drag out fights, no holds barred, and in a case like that, one has to be ruthless.

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I liked @NYJt3 's logic of the idea that M’Gann is not that ruthless, and wouldn’t go all out, at least not right away, because she knows how devestating her attacks could be. But I guess enough people thought otherwise. C’est la vie…

As Bill Belichick would say, “We’re on to Hippolyta’s Heroines!”?

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So, we’re using this same thread for all brackets/rounds, right?

  • Donna v Cassie – I’m honestly unsure about this one. I went with Cassie, on per her half-god status, but given the “awakening” The Artist Formerly Known as Question (@ODannyBoy) pointed out in Death Metal, I’m not sure if Donna’s cosmic level powers (post-Graduation Day) might come in to play here. Maybe we’ll just go with secret option number three: Yara Flor?
  • Zatanna v JCruz – I mean, Zatanna all the way on this. Any versions (even DCSHG). Jessica is a much better GL than she used to be, but is still “just” a GL. Zatanna has restarted reality.
  • Raven v Mary Marvel – As has been touched on previously, yeah, Mary’s hellafast, but portals. She’ll find herself running light speed in to a sun in another dimension.
  • Elasti-Girl v Crazy Jane – This could really go either way, depending on Jane’s control at the moment. However, per @discordia57, these are “knock down, drag out fights, no holds barred” … Jane might start soft, but one hit and she’ll bring out one of the big gun personalities.
  • Starfire v Mera – This for me is the long haul battle of the bracket. They can both keep going and going with attacks that would flatten any other opponent. I’m putting my endgame down to certain assumptions; Kori can survive the vacuum of space with no problem, and is nearly involnerable. Physical water attacks won’t matter, but Mera can remove the water from her body. I’m assuming Kori can survive this easily, at least long enough to get both airborne. In the vacuum of space, Mera has nothing - this is the only way the fight ends.
  • Spoiler v Wildcat – another one that might vary based on “awakening to all versions”, but Wildcat is still the champion of the Red and an incredibly skilled fighter. Even the idealized Stephanie at her best can’t come out on top.
  • Dawnstar v Jesse Quick – I’m arguing against my own bracket here, but I think this one goes to Dawnstar. She may not be able to match Jesse’s speed on land, but as soon as she can grab her, they’re off to space, where Jesse has no chance.
  • Vixen v Fire – I’m not super confident in this one, but I’m still leaning towards Vixen. Fire can turn intangible, but needs to be tangible to strike or burn. Vixen should be able easily shield against either, and strike back with a vengeance. Fire is the more lethal fighter, but I think Vixen is the more skilled, agile, and experienced fighter, with a greater range of styles.

What say ye?

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I’ve got a soft spot in my heart for Cassie. She is a real go getter. So I gave the round to her. But, it’ll be one heck of a fight.

Zee’s magical powers are more than a match for a GL ring, in my book anyway. See can keep both Constantine and Etrigan in check. One GL is a walk in the park.

I get the portals argument, but if anybody can be “a tank” vs Raven, Mary can. She only uses speed on occasion and is more slow and methodical. I think this takes Raven down.

I went Elasti-Girl on this one. I know CJ has some hardcore personalities, but at the end of the day, she is still a non-meta at the physical level. Elasti-Girl can literally wrap CJ in a ball while she has her temper tantrums.

Kori vs Mera is the must watch of this round. It could go either way. Kori gets the edge because if there is not water around, in a face to face battle of punches, Kori takes down Mera. Kori can take whatever Mera can dish out. (Yeah, it’s gonna hurt, but Star can take a hit and keep coming)

Wildcat is my upset pick for the round. Spoiler should be able to take her, but, Wildcat has the tactical advantage. Turning this punchfest into a chess match.

I’m taking the speedster in this one. The ability to get columns of air under Dawnstar’s wings, she’s in trouble. I think Jessie is resourceful enough to keep this fight to where there is atmosphere. As the saying goes, Dawnstar first has to catch Jessie to do damage. Catching a speedster is just a touch out of Dawny’s skill set. (And my personal gripe is that I’ve been a Dawnstar fan since her first LOSH appearance. And, I’m the person who curated the brackets. So I had to swallow pride and give Dawny a tough 1st round match. So I have only myself to blame.)

Most animals have an innate fear of fire. The beauty from Brazil takes this one. Vixen, like Miss Martian, has an Achilles heel that Fire can exploit. If Vixen can overcome this innate animal fear, she’s got this, but I don’t think she can.

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The key word here is most. All Mari needs to know is that something like an echidna exists and she can be all “come at my ice cold torpor mode, bro” until Fire tries something different and gets donkey kicked. (Or face clawed, so Mari doesn’t have to take her defense down.)

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DTvCS: DT win
Donna just experience wise I feel has a better shot.

ZvJC: Z wins
Magic wins against rings.

Rav v Mary: Rav win
Hard choice but I think Ravens light and darkness combo gives her the win.

EG v CJ: CJ wins
EG is good but all those personalities have her out matched.

SFvMera: Mera wins
Water beat fire. :sweat_smile:

Spoiler v WC: Spoiler wins
Very knock down drag out fight but I feel she’ll just have the underdog advantage.

Dawn v JQ: Dawn wins
I feel the Hawk beat speed. Don’t know much about the 2 but that what I think.

V v Fire: Fire wins.
Fire burn animals. So Fire for the win.

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These were my toughest votes so far, it took me some time and thought.

I had to go with Donna, for the same reason as @ODannyBoy has pointed out, there’s nothing saying which version of a character we’re talking about here, so it could be the Death Metal version, plus she does have more experience, a major factor for me in these match ups, sometimes better training and strategy is all it takes to win the day.

In the next bracket, Zatanna, that was the easiest pick for me, as I keep saying, magic wins everytime.

Which brings me to a really challenging one, Raven v Mary, who wins when both are magic? I chose Raven, as @ODannyBoy and @keath have already pointed out perfectly, portals baby, and that’s not all she can do, she’s half demon, oh, and can fight well if her life depends on it.

I really love plastic people, Plastic Man, Elongated Man, Mr. Fantastic and Elasti Woman, since I was a kid this power has fascinated me, and as I’ve gotten older hooking up stereo equipment and computers, boy would it come in handy, which is why it saddens me that I had to vote against her in this match up and in the Duos match 2, sorry Rita, but I think Sun Daddy alone is all CJ needs to win this fight.

Starfire v Mera, what a tough battle. I like @keath’s suggestion that Strafire could take Mera into outer space. I actually changed my vote because of that, though Mera can suck the water out of Starfire, so it could be lights out before SF even gets to outer space. I’m keeping my changed vote to SF, but if Mera wins, it won’t be surprising.

Wildcat over Spoiler, again, better training and super powers.

Dawnstar v Jessie Quick, it’s Jess for the win, not only can she run circles around DS, but super strength, super healing, I think its a no brainer. DS couldn’t even lay a hand on her.

And, Vixen v Fire, another tough one, as everyone keeps pointing out, Fire is formidable and ruthless, I still give it to Vixen. I think her power set and fighting abilities are broader than Fire.

Ps: Thanks for the shout out @keath :wink:

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I missed the first round of voting but was happy to see Black Canary take the win. I was also surprised to see PG lost to Supergirl. I wasn’t expecting that at all.

The current round of voting had some tough calls with Jessica Cruz vs Zatanna being one of the hardest.

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Hiya @D4RK5TARZ

Here is the results thread, including our first Olympian Override. Check it out.

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Oh no!!! I am out for the championship now!!! The reasoning makes sense but that makes me sad.

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Voting for Round 1, Hippolyta’s Heroines ends tonight at 11:00PM pacific

Make your voice heard and vote.

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Donna Troy vs. Wonder Girl: Donna. She’s been through a lot more, and in her heel-turn as Troia, was a threat to the entire roster of the Titans. In her most recent incarnation, Donna was built specifically to be a secret weapon against Wonder Woman, putting her in a class aboveCassie.

Zatanna vs. Jessica: Hate to vote against another one of my favorites, but magic beats ring tech every time.

Raven vs. Mary Marvel: “Portals.” “Why do I always forget you can do that?!”

Elasti-Girl vs. Crazy Jane: With her 64 power sets, Crazy Jane is one of the toughest unsung heroes out there. And she has the benefit of familiarity with Elasti-Girl, while Rita can’t know all of Jane’s powers.

Starfire vs. Mera: When Mera really gets mad, she can be a solo threat to the entire Justice League. One of the most powerful metas in the entire DC Universe, and never to be underestimated. Starfire has no chance.

Spoiler vs. Wildcat: Victory Steph, with her specialized customized Batarangs. It’s all about the tech.

Dawnstar vs. Jesse Quick: Dawnstar’s flight capabilities are great for long distance, but not so much for direct combat. Jesse’s speed is much more versatile in the arena.

Vixen vs. Fire: This is one of the most interesting matches here for sure, but I’m giving the win to Fire for her Checkmate experience.

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Results for Hippolyta’s Heroines are now complete.
(including the first Rejected Olympian Override)
Up to date results for the tournament can be found Click Here

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Time for the villainesses to tak to the ring.
Granny’s Good Girls Round 1 voting is now open.

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