Meta Madhouse Throwdown on Themyscira Discussion and Debates

General Discussion
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Welcome to Meta Madhouse Throwdown On Themyscira discussion and debate thread.

This is the place to discuss your pics and, perhaps get those on the fence voters to vote for your pick(s)

We can certainly get passionate discussions and debates. However, also be respectful of other and please stay within the community guidelines.

Up to date results for the tournament can be found Click Here

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A couple of personal observations and opinions for the Wonder Woman’s Warriors bracket.

Supergirl vs Power Girl
The advantage goes to PG. Their raw strength is about the same but PG is a fully matured adult. This gives her a slight stamina edge. Also, PG has a slight advantage in Battle Tactics. She’s been “around the block” a few more times then Kara and in such a close matchup, experience counts. Finally, PG is willing to go farther in inflicting damage. Kara isn’t going to separate the shoulder of PG, but PG isn’t going to show the same restraint.

Orphan vs Miss Martian
On paper this looks like a walkover for Cass. However, Cass has one virtually fatal flaw. The girl has issues (understandably so) and that is the battleground Miss Martian will attack her on. The only one who can defeat Cass in this matchup is Cass herself, and that’s exactly what will happen. M’gann can manipulate Cass’s mind and take her down from within.

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[Moved from voting thread]

My personal assumptions: current comic book versions in all brackets (with pre-Flashpoint state assumed for the few that haven’t shown up yet), story-structure showdown rather than abstract tournament format, so no “prep time” - characters bring what they normally have on them (save for allies), and one round, so none of that “well Batman will always get back up and win next time” nonsense… “defeat” does not require “death”.

  • I’m seeing SG v PG as the knock-down, drawn-out fight of this bracket. If draws were a thing, it’d be one. As neither can truly best the other, I called it by who would be more likely to yield in whatever story construct requires them to fight. (EDIT To @DeSade-acolyte observations, I think the post-Flashpoint Karen is far softer and less experienced than her previous incarnations; she was goofin’ around Earth Prime with Helena Wayne while Earth 2 was a warzone, engaging in hijinks with Harley, and so forth. Meanwhile Kara has been through the crucible - literally and figuratively - though younger, I think she’s bringing the broader range of experience and determination to this fight.)
  • As much as I love Babs, she’s not armored against Thanagarian metal and can’t fly. She’d last longer than most, but is ultimately toast here.
  • In my head canon for this battle, M’Gann tries to masquerade as another opponent, but Cass reads her fighting style in an instant and knows who she’s up against. Maybe a couple of phase-to-dodge moves give M’Gann a brief advantage, but as soon as Cass lands a blow, she takes the fight. (EDIT To @DeSade-acolyte observations, I totally forgot about psychic attacks. I thought that there was some evidence that Azrael had equipped all of Team Belfry with psychic protection in their cowls, but I can’t find that to confirm… Cass’ determination, focus, and warrior auto-pilot trump any self doubt, but if M’Gann can get in there to undermine that, then the story changes.)
  • In almost every fight I’ve give the fighter with a ranged weapon over the one without. But for Artemis, Mistress is a ranged weapon. She easily blocks the arrows while Arrowette flees a flying battleaxe bigger than her.
  • I really want this one to go to Thunder, because she might be the only non-Kryptonian in this bracket who can take down an Amazon, but Batwoman is equipped to take down anyone from Clayface to Bane; li’l miss density is no challenge for her.
  • I believe we’ve only gotten confirmation that one (well, three) of these characters actually exist in current continuity, but assuming Ayla is out there somewhere, there’s the simple fact that every one of Luornu’s bodies can be electrocuted.
  • Again, ranged sonic weapon should win, but this is Barda. Canary Cry might slow her down, but not by much. I’m fairly certain we’ve seen the Mega-Rod absorb concussive energy, as well as dish it out, so while Canary might be loud, Barda should be able to negate the physical part of the attack, which Canary can’t reciprocate. (Apokoliptian biology ought to prevent any brain damage or inner ear problems.)
  • Another “as much as I love…” fight. My girl Courtney’s going down. Not enough experience to adapt to momma Karen’s suit. Once she shrinks down, Bumblebee can knock the staff right out of Courney’s hands, maybe even get inside her head and shut her down if she’s feeling frisky.
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Now THIS is the part I am here for! OK, time for my analysis:

SUPERGIRL VS. POWER GIRL: Peeg has got this on lock. She’s been shown to fight evenly with Wonder Woman herself, and represents the heights to which Kara will rise someday.

HAWKGIRL VS. BATGIRL: Advantage Hawkgirl. Shiera/Kendra has lived thousands and thousands of lives, and in that time has become an expert in forms of combat that Barbara couldn’t even fathom. She and Hawkman both are some of the most underrated fighters in the DC Universe.

ORPHAN VS. MISS MARTIAN: I’m a Cassandra Cain fan for life… which is why it breaks my heart to vote against her this early. Like her mother, one of Cass’s greatest weaknesses is telepathic assault. It’s a crucial plot point early in her original Batgirl series which almost completely destroys her. Sorry Cass, but you’ve drawn the one opponent here who could reliably defeat you.

ARTEMIS VS. ARROWETTE: Artemis. Come on, she’s an AMAZON. Arrowette retired because this is all too much for her. And I don’t blame her, but she’s not gonna win any fights here.

BATWOMAN VS. THUNDER: DO NOT MESS WITH ANISSA PIERCE! Fans of Judd Winick’s Outsiders run know just how formidable Thunder can be, and Kate’s completely unprepared for the power she carries with her.

LIGHTNING LASS VS. TRIPLICATE GIRL: These two know each other’s limits and capabilities very well, but lightning beats duplication.

BIG BARDA VS. BLACK CANARY: This is gonna be the coolest fight this round. But Barda wasn’t the leader of the Female Furies for nothing.

BUMBLEBEE VS. STARGIRL: Bumblebee. Stargirl is completely unprepared for her powerset, and Karen has been using her powers to trip up young heroes since the 70s.

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Mapping this out, I think Big Barda is a lock for a Warriors finalist, but the other side will come down to PG or Miss Martian, depending on whether Power Girl can break out of M’gann’s mind lock.

If Miss Martian can steal a win from Power Girl, I think Barda can stop her… after all, she withstood the brainwashing of Granny Goodness. She’s mentally fortified for anything. But Power Girl versus Big Barda? That’s a fight not even I can predict, and one I’d be in the front row to watch.

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Also, @DeSade-acolyte – while we’re talking about Meta Madhouse, have you read Tom Taylor’s Suicide Squad series from last year? It does a really great job demonstrating what I was talking about with Zebra Man. He’s OP as hell.

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I’ll put it on my list.

Thanks for your hot takes this round, HCQ. You’re vast character knowledge is always great to have. :clap::clap::clap:

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I’m hoping for this bracket final matchup. I live in hope that one day we will get a Meta Madhouse maxi series, so we could see some of these matches play out on paper.

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You and me both. I’ve been dreaming of an all-fights series for years.

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This is a really good point if we’re only considering their modern incarnations, but I consider each of these combatants a gestalt of sorts of each of their status quos over the years. With the most storied combatants, it really comes down to which version you go with. But historically speaking, Power Girl is the more experienced, more powerful version of Kara – a potential future to come for the young heroine. The Power Girl of my mind is the one who headlined her own series in the late '00s, not the New 52 Earth 2 resident posed here.

To strengthen my argument, I’ll pose the ending of Dark Nights: Death Metal – where every character awakens to their entire publication history. Power Girl’s once lacking experience is now filled in. And so is Kara’s, admittedly. But a Kryptonian gets stronger the longer they’ve been exposed to a yellow sun, and Karen’s had a few more years to soak.

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Excellent point. I made the “current continuity” my personal assumption, since no rules one way or the other had been defined. I clearly need to read Death Metal, though, as such an awakening changes quite a bit for me. Guess I’ll be voting against myself in the remaining brackets!

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Kind of like The Super-Fight?

My main observation is that Batwoman v Thunder is tailor-made for Whitney’s Secret Option 3.

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Nice DCDaily callback reference.
And it is soooooooo true.

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Oh wait! Power Girl beats Miss Martian because of her heat vision, duh. She lays that down at the start of the fight, lighting the ground on fire, and it’s over for M’gann. If all goes as it should, we’re gonna have our Heavyweight Glamour Slam.

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I’ve been thinking about this for a few hours now, and… man. It’s tough, but if it comes down to PG versus Barda? I’m going with Barda.

She’s been through a hell you can’t even imagine, training to be the deadliest superpowered warrior in the universe. With powers out of the equation she’s a much better fighter. They’re both strong enough to hurt each other. The advantage that Power Girl has is flight, but Barda’s Mega Rod and her Mother Box close the gap. I think she’s trained specifically to fight Kryptonians if the need arises, and the need has arisen.

Stun her with the Mega Rod, Boom Tube her somewhere with a nice bright red sun, and it’s lights out.

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This is interesting… :thinking:

When it came to deciding between these two I actually thought about their early years. :sweat_smile:

Since Powergirl’s powers were fluctuating day to day in JSA Classified I gave Supergirl the advantage. :00_supergirl:

Now to look into those later stories… :nerd_face:

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For Orphan vs Miss Martian you are bringing up the very good point of why Miss Martian should win but :shushing_face:. I am in denial because I don’t want to see Cass go down so early.

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We are simpatico on this block of match ups. I came to this thread to argue for all the same characters, for mostly the same reasons. Cheers!

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The matchup of Batwoman vs Thunder is tough. Anissa has awesome strength and power, but Kate has training in military tactics (something often overlooked about her, IMO). When the power delta is so large, the battle for the weaker opponent is a tactical one.
Either way Kate’s gonna need the best healers on Themyscira regardless, but, I just have a hunch her superior knowledge of tactics may carry the day.
This has all the makings of the 1st Peloponnesian War. No way Athens should have won, but by guile and tactics they did. Same applies here.

I also think Courtney is getting a bad wrap. The cosmic staff is capable of an EMP. (Recall it was used to temporarily stop Metallo in JLU S3 E3, Chaos at the Earth’s core. That takes Bumblebee’s tech out of play. No tech and Stargirl advances.

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I could see Batwoman eking a victory out against Thunder through sheer guile and perfect timing, but Thunder definitely has the advantage.

Courtney’s staff might be able to work on Bumblebee’s Tech, but she’s not too experienced in thinking on her feet like that. I think Karen is more likely to take advantage of the first move.

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