WB/Discovery Cancellations Are Now Taking Effect! What Would You Like to See in the Future

General Discussion Movies & TV
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@Sean-Malloy

I think the problem with MoS was Snyder, he hates Superman

He probably likes Batman more, but I don’t think he hates Superman. I mean, who makes a movie about a character that you hate?

Those trailers too, my god…

Those are like the best ever.

The Jor-El one I guess is what played before The Dark Knight Rises, and the reason why I went to go see The Dark Knight Rises.

And once it was over, it was like, “Yeah, I can leave now, I got my money’s worth. I’m satisfied.” :smiling_face:

I remember Walmart had some type of promotion where you buy the tickets online through them, and you would be among the first to see Man of Steel. It was like a 7:30 showing on Thursday night before the midnight showing. That’s what we did – went to Walmart and picked up our tickets and were among the first to see it.

Looking back on it now, I guess I can see why Man of Steel didn’t do a billion dollars or whatever. Because it wasn’t a billion dollar movie, it was about a $600 million dollar movie. It made about what it should have made.

To me I didn’t think the movie was as ambitious as it could have been. I felt that it wasn’t as big in scope and scale as it could have been. It felt kind of small to me.

It’s Superman… make it a massive, global thing. The world would totally change overnight after he first appears. Show that on the screen.

“Nah, we’re gonna do what we’re doing.”

And it was like,“Okay, I guess. You probably shoulda went bigger than this. But okay, it’s your movie.” :smiling_face:

Hopefully next time they’ll think bigger and do bigger.

I tell you, with a Black Superman there’s no question that the world would totally change overnight. It would be like, “Whoa, wait, what is this?!” :smiling_face:

You would have to do the movie big, otherwise you’re not being honest.

Anyway, whatever you do, Warner Bros., just make it big next time.

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Well, Joss Whedon was going to write and direct Wonder Woman and he was quoted as saying he hated her rogues, he didn’t like her costume, and he never watched the TV series. It was that interview that turned me against him forever…

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Wouldn’t mind a black superman but that superman better be Val-Zod and not Calvin-El superman.
He really is my least favorite superman and that’s saying a lot when we got frank Miller superman in the omniverse.

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I guess it could mean he loves her in spite of those.

I remember hearing his script just made her Steve’s damsel in distress.

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@MovieAddict

Well, Joss Whedon was going to write and direct Wonder Woman and he was quoted as saying he hated her rogues, he didn’t like her costume, and he never watched the TV series. It was that interview that turned me against him forever…

Yeah, that just means that he didn’t like some of the trappings around her.

He probably thought that they wouldn’t translate well to the big screen. He’s probably not wrong. :smiling_face:

And I remember watching the TV show as a kid and it had a fun opening, but beyond that, if someone had never watched it I don’t believe they would be missing much. And they could always watch the entire series in a matter of days if they so desired.

Briefly back to not liking some of the trappings around a character:

I like very little of the trappings that surround Superman, I doubt I would use any of his rogues gallery if I were to make a movie, and I don’t think I would use much of anything from any of the TV shows. But I really, really like the character.

(His costume is fine though too, so I probably wouldn’t change much about that. )

Speaking of Superman…

@Samsonkillingtime

Wouldn’t mind a black superman but that superman better be Val-Zod and not Calvin-El superman.
He really is my least favorite superman and that’s saying a lot when we got frank Miller superman in the omniverse.

It’ll be interesting to see if that Val Zod project is still going forward.

Michael B. Jordan’s production company was going to do it…

The new bosses at Warner Bros. however are reportedly unwilling to have big budgets on these HBO Max projects. So if they still want to do it… I dunno.

If it’s a Bat-something then no big deal, because you don’t need a big budget. For any version of Superman though I feel that you have to spend. Doing any Superman on “the cheap” is a scary proposition to me.

And honestly, doing Val Zod period gives me pause, simply because I don’t feel that Warner Bros. would give it top-level treatment. I feel that it would get a step above CW-level treatment.

And yeah, as ever, I’ve never for one second believed that the Ta-Nehisi Coates Superman would be Calvin Ellis.

Calvin Ellis is just one of those goofy Grant Morrison ideas.

I like Grant Morrison when they do weird stuff in their own comics, like in THE INVISIBLES or THE FILTH or whatever. It’s weird stuff that I find cool – it’s cool weird stuff. When they do it in super-hero comics though, it mostly just comes across as goofy weird stuff to me, not cool weird stuff.

Anyway, yeah, the Ta-Nehisi Coates Superman is supposedly a version of Kal-El – per that Hollywood Reporter article…

The Superman film appears to be moving onto its own track and won’t be part of the universe, as of now. Sources tell THR that Coates is crafting a Kal-El in the vein of the original Superman comics and will have the protagonist hail from Krypton and come to Earth. While the story is currently being crafted and many details could change, one option under consideration is for the film to be a 20th century period piece.

If Ta-Nehisi Coates were to do a Calvin Ellis version, I suspect it would be nothing like the comics – save for maybe the origin (because it’s basically the same origin). But I wouldn’t think that it would be anything like the comics because there’s nothing there from the comics that’s worth translating to the big screen.

No, I suspect Ta-Nehisi Coates would come up with his own take on a Black Superman and not anything from the comics. That is after all why they would hire someone like him. And if it’s going to be a period piece, then obviously he’s using nothing from the comics.

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Big take, as Superman has an amazing yet very underused (for the big screen) rogues gallery. If I were doing a Superman movie I would be incredibly excited to use Bizarro, Parasite, Toyman, The Cyborg, The Eradicator, and Mix-Yes-Spit-Lick, and I might have the major flaw of making Clark a side character.

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To me, it proved he knew nothing of the character and would have given us a terrible version we didn’t deserve, which is what every review I saw of his script (which I refuse to read) says we got from him. I think he even said he was not a fan of the comic. My question is, if you hate the character so much, why write it? But, of course all the allegations came out later, and it kind of answers hat question…

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More like, he is clueless as to why the character is so beloved. She has great rogues, and she has been underutilized on the screen to really emphasize that. I mean, Silver Swan is amazing.

As for the TV show, there is a reason it is a cult phenomenon and still what EVERY iteration of the character is compared to. It is also my favorite show ever, and I never tire of watching it.

As for the trappings, I don’t get what you mean. Her superpowers? Her costume? Her lasso of truth? I mean, that is what makes the character the character…

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169

I’d see this.

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Probably money. It is an opportunity to write a movie many people will see. Whedon is very bad at chasing trends and focusing on what people say. He also very much loves seeing his name in the newspaper.

It might also be easier to write for a character you have no interest in, since you have less problems butchering her. Think of how much more stressful it is for Geoff Johns to write about Stargirl, than it would be for him to write about Black Condor.

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By the same token, John’s created Stargirl, so whatever he does is automatically canon. Whedon runs the risk of alienating the fan base and ruining the characters chances at getting the respect she deserves and has never received…

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I really do hope Warner Bros is still going to do The Strange Adventures anthology tv series.

I really want to see obviously Adam Strange but also people like Shade the changing man, captain Comet, challengers of the unknown, and the Omega Men

It seems that they are keeping quiet, so hopefully until the green lantern show is finished production we will here more from it.

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@MovieAddict

More like, he is clueless as to why the character is so beloved. She has great rogues, and she has been underutilized on the screen to really emphasize that. I mean, Silver Swan is amazing.

As for the TV show, there is a reason it is a cult phenomenon and still what EVERY iteration of the character is compared to. It is also my favorite show ever, and I never tire of watching it.

As for the trappings, I don’t get what you mean. Her superpowers? Her costume? Her lasso of truth? I mean, that is what makes the character the character…

Yeah, the trappings are the things that you said that Joss Whedon didn’t like about Wonder Woman. That’s what I mean.

You said that he didn’t like her rogues and her costume. Okay, then I guess he would have changed them. Zack Snyder and Patty Jenkins changed Wonder Woman’s costume. It’s not exactly like the comics, but it’s similar to it. That could have been what Joss Whedon was talking about.

And I seriously doubt it’s a question about being clueless as the appeal of the character. No, it’s just that this is what he wanted to do.

Ultimately, of course, and in the case of Joss Whedon, just because he didn’t like certain aspects of Wonder Woman, it doesn’t mean that he doesn’t like the character. And I guess you weren’t really saying that, but ultimately that was my original point with Zack Snyder and Superman.

Zack Snyder did things with Superman that some people didn’t like, like snapping Zod’s neck, but I don’t think that means that he dislikes the character. No, he was just trying something different with Superman and it didn’t work as well as it could have.

@MatthewHecht

Big take, as Superman has an amazing yet very underused (for the big screen) rogues gallery. If I were doing a Superman movie I would be incredibly excited to use Bizarro, Parasite, Toyman, The Cyborg, The Eradicator, and Mix-Yes-Spit-Lick, and I might have the major flaw of making Clark a side character.

Yeah, out of that list the only one that I would use is Mister Mxyzptlk.

In the case of a Black Superman, I would use him as a means to explain to the audience why there is a Black Superman. Just use the Fifth Dimension aspect and say that this is another Earth in the Multiverse, and have him pop in on this Earth, and on this Earth Superman is Black. And of course while he’s there have him cause trouble for this Superman and so on and so forth…

And of course with the traditional Superman I would just adapt SUPERMAN: PEACE ON EARTH. I would do that with a Black Superman too. That’s a story that could be told with any version of Superman.

There is a reason though why basically only Lex Luthor and Zod have been the villains in Superman movies, because with pretty much everyone else it’s hard to come up with a story to justify spending hundreds of millions of dollars.

It’s hard to make a Superman movie. That’s why they haven’t had “a good one” in over 40 years.

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No they do this, as they are determined to copy the huge success of Superman '78. There have been two attempts at a franchise since. Returns was very much Superman '78 fan fiction. Man of Steel thankfully used very different stories, but still used many elements and themes.

For Batman V. Superman that is not Lex, but somebody else. Honestly if they called him practically anything else I would have really liked him. I would have called him “Toyman.”

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I agree completely.

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@MatthewHecht

No they do this, as they are determined to copy the huge success of Superman '78. There have been two attempts at a franchise since. Returns was very much Superman '78 fan fiction. Man of Steel thankfully used very different stories, but still used many elements and themes.

Yeah, that ties into having to justify spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a Superman movie.

They saw what worked, and they were like, “Yeah, do more of that. Because it worked last time.”

And I can totally understand them being averse to trying something new, because that’s risky. And when you’re putting hundreds of millions of dollars on the line, it’s understandable when someone is risk averse. :smiling_face:

Sometimes trying to copy what’s worked before though is a winning strategy – the Joker being in a Batman movie (and I guess having his own movie for that matter). And sometimes it’s not a winning strategy – basically what they tried with Superman and Lex Luthor; it worked once, and not so much the next two times.

For Batman V. Superman that is not Lex, but somebody else. Honestly if they called him practically anything else I would have really liked him. I would have called him “Toyman.”

It’s just a different version of Lex Luthor, isn’t it?

Like the Lex Luthor I grew up watching on Super Friends with the purple shirt and green tights is different than the somewhat comical and bumbling Gene Hackman version that I saw as a little kid in Superman: The Movie, and both are different than the John Byrne businessman Lex Luthor that I read a few years later in MAN OF STEEL.

All of the versions are egotistical and hate Superman though, so that’s the essentials. Anything beyond that is just surface layer. The Zack Snyder Jesse Eisenberg Lex Luthor actually had a fair amount in common with the John Byrne businessman Lex Luthor. Both are businessmen, and both resent Superman because he’s an alien – which if I’m not mistaken, John Byrne is the one who added that aspect to Lex Luthor.

But yeah, I’m glad that Zack Snyder tried something a little different. It didn’t work that well, but that happens.

Next time I’m assuming that they’re going to try something different again.

Perhaps something really different with a Black Superman, or just slightly different with a traditional Superman.

Whatever they do, like Elmer Fudd would say: Watsa wuck!

(That is how Elmer Fudd would say 'Lotsa luck," isn’t it? When he’s not hunting “wabbits.”) :smiling_face:

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Well, WW84 Cheetah on the Big Screen

Seven Soldiers?

No BrainIAC?

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I (respectfully) don’t see eye to eye with you on a lot of things, but I agree with you here. From Hackman to Spacey to Shea to Rosenbaum to Cryer, the character’s been played so many different ways in live action. Eisenberg’s Lex Luthor was a twitchy, more psychotic version. Seemed like they were developing him into something a bit different had they continued that story, but we’ll probably never get to see where Snyder was going with him.

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I actually said he either didn’t like or “wasn’t a fan of” virtually everything about the character. That’s all the proof I need to know he was the worst choice, and the reviews of how awful the script was prove everything I felt was justified…

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