Jewish superheroes or catholic superheroes

General Discussion
41

If persons are identifying as X, how many are doing that because they know about the foundations of X and/or read and retain the information of the texts that define X.
Someone says “I’m vegan” but eats meat, are they a vegan simply because they say they are?

As for their being a “much smaller” LBGTQ population, as a percentage of population, back in the late 30’s through the end of the 20th century is bizarre. LBGTQ people existed in much the same numbers, they just hide because they didn’t want to risk arrest, imprisonment, lose of job, etc.

The idea that are somehow “more” LBGTQ people today because laws have stopped arresting them is a absurd.

Stonewall demonstrated, the exact inverse of what you are saying to be true.

I think it can be argued that most values in western culture predate christianity and are values Christianity adopted for Judaism or various “paganism”. (I put that in quotes merely as a inclusion of to many non-Judeo-Christian to list in reasonable manner. It is not meant as a detrimental notation.)

I actually think making characters as ambiguous as possible from a faith standpoint is the best model. If you say, OK, this character is of this particular faith, it makes that character harder to relate to if they are not of your faith. A kid can dream about having superpowers (pretending to be superhero-X), but, do we risk making characters less relatable by making their personal philosophies explicit. There are a hand full of characters that are of one theological bent or another. That’s great. It establishes that these alternate earths have similarities to our own. Those religions do exist, and some characters are explicitly of one particular faith.

I think it would be problematic to say Batman is (pick a given belief structure). How many people of various faiths relate to Batman, in part because they can see an idealized version of themselves in that character. So keeping some ambiguity in that area is actually good.

It’s good that we have a handful of LBGTQ characters and hopefully more in the future, because they have been a marginalized group, and specifically working at creating inclusion of that previously marginalized group is healthy. We saw this with an increase of heroes and villains of color in the late 60’s/early 70’s after then end of Jim Crowe in 1965.

1 Like
42

@Desade I don’t think the abortion argument would apply here, as I see that as an activity rather than a faith or central to identity such as race, gender, sexuality or faith. Also that stat would mean that comic writers would have to focus on other statistics such as showing 1/3 of all cancers or sun related or that 1/3 of all American adults are at least 20% above their recommended weight.
Now, a better argument for the perceived under representation would be the physical appearance. Now, using Christianity as an example, you could walk past a group of people and they could all be Christians or atheists or a mixture of many religions, but the point is it’s not something you can tell. But for Islam, it’s especially easy to spot a Muslim woman because of the covering. Another example would be their exclamations. A Christian or not would be very likely to say dear God, and you wouldn’t know their faith or if they have any, but a Muslim is more likely to refer to Allah.
I think this “under representation” is because of how normalized Christianity is in our society that the only way to outright tell is by asking them.

1 Like
43

@FlashLegacy
I’m all for spirited debate. Just the question of “What religious affiliation/faith is character-X and why” especially when character-X has no conical source for a particular religious or non-religious belief structure.

And this goes far beyond just religion but into a character’s personal philosophy. Is Batman a nihilist? There are compelling arguments for both yes and no.

44

Guys, please keep this thread on track. This is not what the OP asked. Any further comments that are deemed off-topic may be deleted.

2 Likes
45

I believe some incarnations of Ragman and Felicity Smoak are Jewish.

@FlashLegacy

I forgot about Blue Devil. He had a conversation about religion with Mr. Terrific, an atheist, during Infinite Crisis if I’m not mistaken. Pretty fun stuff. I really enjoyed Blue Devil’s solo series and Shadowpact where he was a key player. Blue Devil was a light-hearted comedy adventure which actually succeeded in being fairly funny. I wish it had more issues. Shadowpact was a more traditional series but a good one. I don’t know any other Blue Devil centered work. Maybe Reign in Hell which I haven’t read. He had some important stuff in Underworld Unleashed which was okay though it’s one of those event comics with a million characters in it.

@Desade_Acolyte

I actually agree with many things in your latest comment though I do disagree on some points. Too bad we can’t discuss if further. I appreciate you sharing your perspective with me.

46

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_collage.html
Check out that link, it helps answer this question

2 Likes
47

A shame he’s not of DC or Marvel canon, but there’s always Bibleman.

51M0JG68Y0L.SX258_BO1,204,203,200.jpg

2 Likes
48

Felicity Smoake in CWVERSE continuity is Jewish.

49

As was the Martin Stein in CWVERSE continuity.

50

Being Catholic myself at least growing up with it I was always interested in who was a superhero who was catholic. Growing up Catholic in my area it wasnt the most popular thing so comics were kind of my escape.

1 Like
51

If anyone would have had Jewish superheroes featured, it’d have been Stan Lee, and all the classic Marvel heroes (excepting Thor, of course) have been portrayed as having no religion at all.

Ms. Marvel, by the way, is terrific, an adolescent girl with a superpower who happens to be a Muslim. It has some nice family scenes, and, if you have the Marvel app (since every discerning comic fan should have both), you’ll likely like it.

52

Marvel has Daredevil who is Catholic. But yeah I’d like to see more religious superheroes.

1 Like
53

Eddie Brock was Catholic. He first bonded with the Venom symbiote in church.

1 Like
54

I’d have to think that Seigel & Shuster envisioned Superman as fundamentally Jewish, given the A) the both were. B) He was fighting as a social crusader when the Nazis were running roughshod over Europe.

3 Likes
55

Al Rothstein (Atom Smasher/Nuklon) is Jewish and it features rather prominently in at least a couple of issues of Infinity Inc.

2 Likes
56

That’s a good point, @DeSade. He might not be Jewish in the text, but I think of Superman as a sort of metatextual Jewish icon.

57

The Confessor from Astro City is a great example of what can be done by crossing superheroes with religious beliefs. I find him to be such an intriguing character because of how Kurt Busiek played off the hardened Catholic beliefs.

58

Proud to say that the writers of Superman are from Cleveland.

1 Like
59

I’m like 90% sure Bruce Wayne is Jewish by his mother’s side, and possibly was Christian/Catholic practicing as a child? Batwoman is definitely Jewish. If an alien from Krypton could be Jewish, Superman would be. He’s like, honorary Jewish. Azrael is some kinda Christian probably.

If it’s dealt with respectfully I think religion can be a fun element to add to some characters and stories. America is a place where a lot of Protestant Christian culture, values, and holy days have been subsumed/transformed into the culture of the public sphere. You’ll find our laws, codes of ethics, and nationally recognized holidays usually stem from Protestantism. I think it’s fair to say a decent amount of heroes in America are Protestant or some form of Christian, or at least they have been socialized in such an environment.

Religion is another one of those things that has interesting intersections with comics since, canonically, people have died and been resurrected in all manner of ways. I know there are some religions that prefer people not be resuscitated—does that have any affect? How do the major religious organizations deal with the existence of meta humans and canonical existence of multiple gods in multiple pantheons? Does the Catholic Church just think that Wonder Woman’s Greek gods are really strong superheroes? There’s also the fact that the universe has been destroyed/almost destroyed/rebirthed a bunch of times. A good chunk of Christianity in America believes in the literal Apocalypse and the second coming of Jesus Christ. Do these world-ending events wreck havoc with that belief system?

And also, are Hellenic, Wiccan, and other religions really popular in the DC Universe since, ya know, The Gods Are Real and So Is Magic?

1 Like
60

@Versias As Linkara has said, DC (and Marvel) exists in a reality where all religions are basically true. I think focusing on a story where, say, a Rabbi tries to reconcile seeing Wonder Woman battle Ares, would be interesting, but with some writers at DC these days, I’m wary about how they’d handle it.
I guess you could say I’ve lost a lot of faith in DC.

4 Likes