Is anyone saying it’s appropriate though. You were saying it’s a manipulation of the character, but that is who the joker is though. I don’t believe people associate DC fans with homicidal maniacs, do they? Also I think part of your problem with the thread is in the title. Perhaps changing it from Joker Fandom to people obsessed with him might help with people’s confusion. If people who are mentally unstable were to come across this thread it could possibly even have a counterproductive result and make them feel more of an outcast and unaccepted by society. I don’t think anyone here is saying or believes idolizing Jokers actions is healthy and warrants concern. I recall higher up in the thread earlier on you stated something along the lines that when you hear folks talk about the Joker and their obsession with him it was disturbing. Understandable, but if you actually know someone like this, I hope you help them seek help or notify someone if it is of actual concern.
Hey, @Aquamon, thanks for joining the thread. By manipulation, I mean making him a hero in there eyes or someone to look up to. Which I don’t believe DC has done. Yeah, I can change my title if you think it’ll help but I feel like I’ve been pretty clear in all of my posts about who I’m referring to. I’ll consider changing it though, thanks for the advice. To the point of someone stumbling upon this who is mentally ill, I honestly haven’t considered this and most certainly should have. Thanks for checking me on it. And yeah, I have discussed this with the people I know and hear in real life (though not this bluntly as I don’t mean to offend or push them). And, I have seen people in the thread say that this isn’t a real concern and that I’m overstretching so thats why I’ve responded to this so much. Hope I hit everything 
First of please stop hitting things OmniLad. 
Secondly how dare you!
I think I was the 2nd or first one to reply!
I believe I was one who stated that I think it is not as big a deal as you are perceiving it. That is in regards to folk who are big fans. I don’t believe this makes them an immediate concern due to him being a fictional character. I recall someone shortly after my post saying something similar which you seemed to dismiss as irrelevant but it is a valid point. You are sitting across the table with 2 people. One is obsessed with Stalin or Hitler and the other the Joker. Which is more of a concern? I am not sure if part of your argument is that the Joker should not be portrayed as violent as he is, but if they were to dumb him down I feel the people who were unstable enough to go down that road likely would have regardless of a fictional character. I think the real problem which the Joker movie points out is that their is inadequate care for people with such conditions in the world today. While I imagine that the vast majority of folks who are die hard Joker fans would not commit such acts even if fantasied about. When this was first posted I did a super fancy google search to see the # of crimes committed by folks inspired by the Joker. I think it was around or under ten and the facts on whether the Joker was actually the driving force was not completely clear.
You can’t control how people will react to things. Many creators have been surprised by what some fans have taken away from their work. Tv Tropes even has page for it (Misaimed Fandom). Symbols can mean different things to different people. It’s how Charles Manson can listen to a Beatles song inspired by a roller coaster and somehow come away with “the coming race war”. I can understand why a person would be concerned about people idealizing a villainous character, but I’m concerned about what “we need to do something about this” can potentially lead to.
The Joker’s clearly a villain, but I don’t think that he really inspires violence. Look at the movie. I remember some people using the Colorado Dark Knight shootings to try to stir up public sentiment against it, many repeating the false reports that the shooter was dressed like (and called himself) the Joker. He was not, and only chose that film because he reasoned that the opening night of a big Hollywood blockbuster would have a lot of people for him to shoot. The media almost seemed eager to provoke violence, but the vast majority of fans clearly realized that the film is an indictment of a culture in such deep dysfunction that basic empathy, and the bonds that hold us together as a society, are breaking down. Sometimes, dramatic examples are necessary to shake people from apathy. Fiction allows us to do that, giving us antagonists who can be sympathized with without condoning what they, in a deep state of unbalance, feel driven to do.
Well, welcome back then haha. And, Oh jeez, I sure hope I didn’t come off as dismissive. I’ve been taking every post so far into consideration and trying my best to hear everyone out. Obviously there are more important or troublesome individuals out there who idealize others, but I don’t think that we should just dismiss this issue. We, as humans, should be able to discuss multiple issues at once. But, this is DcUniverse, so I’m focusing on the Joker. I’m not saying we should dumb down the character, but DC should be proactive in ensuring that the character is portrayed and handled clearly and carefully. And while maybe we don’t have any outright crimes, he is still manipulated as a symbol of this behavior. This isn’t necessarily about him “inspiring crimes” but being a hero or symbol for them
Just because we don’t have full control doesn’t mean we shouldn’t condemn and be cautious tho.
Not saying you’re wrong but trying to recall a comic/movie/show where he was portrayed in a way that glorified his actions rather than condemning him and showing him as a villain. I am drawing a blank on it. Is there a particular instants you are referring to? As you and others have stated on here (if memory serves me right, not feeling like looking through post), artist are not in control as to how their work is interpreted. I believe there was talk on here asking if you think some sort of notification would be beneficial. That I believe led to pointing out that people who would go that far, likely would not be detoured by a PSA. Do you have any thoughts then as to how this could be handled effectively?
Where do we draw the line, though? At what point does interest in villains become problematic? Should Harley Quinn fans be condemned because she once attached bombs to babies? Poison Ivy fans because she was depicted picking up random guys, dropping them in an oversized pitcher plant, and amusing herself by mocking them while they were conscious and being slowly digested? At what point do we start singling people out because of the characters that speak to them? At what point do we consider ourselves justified pushing our views of the characters and how they should be taken and viewed on other people?
Because I don’t believe that some sort of PSA telling readers that Joker is not to be idolized and artist are unable to control how their work will be interpreted, the only solutions I see is DC altering the character which I don’t approve of and a slippery slope. A better solution seems to be, to me, be a greater emphasis on mental health care. You could make a request asking DC to contribute proceeds generated from Joker related revenue to go towards mental health care. That could possibly be a good place to start. But if your aim is to just be reassured that people find those who are idolizing the Joker to the extent that they give rise to concerns about whether they might act on their fascination then I think it is a simple answer of yes.
I think it’s mostly about responsible writing like @iJest said. Nowadays, it feels like the Joker is becoming sort of an “edgy” character for a lack of a better word. For example, the Jared Leto portrayal.
We aren’t singling people out for liking to read a character. We are just trying to be cautious about those who identify with and ignore or glorify his actions.
And yeah, I would love to see DC put a focus on mental health care. I want every company to do that. I’m not talking about a PSA or changing who the Joker is at its core. But you can represent the character and it’s ideologies in many different ways. It’s all about smart and good writing.
"but trying to recall a comic/movie/show where he was portrayed in a way that glorified his actions rather than condemning him and showing him as a villain. "
Are there any other instances? Leto’s Joker was not received well nor was he really depicted doing much of anything.
Joker is a fictional character. And a villainous one at that. I like the idea of making more movies about the villains instead of just always focusing on heroes. I don’t need to see yet another Hulk or Spiderman movie when there are so many other characters that justify a new movie.
With that said, look at all the press leading up to JOKER movie in theater. Talks that there would be real world violence and yet it was pretty tame worldwide (a few dustups, but then there are crazies going off over all kinds of stuff). I think the vast majority of people see Joker the way he is: temporary escapism and nothing to take that seriously outside of enjoying for entertainment value.
[quote=“OmniLad, post:46, topic:426800, full:true”]
Just because we don’t have full control doesn’t mean we shouldn’t condemn and be cautious tho.
[/quote]What did you mean by “condemn” then?
When you talk about “being cautious about those who identify with” you are talking about singling people out because of which characters stand out to them. Who gets to decide which characters are problematic? Where is the line drawn as far as what they have to say or do before it becomes problematic?
Do you not feel that identifying with a mass murderer, anarchist, with a lack of empathy is problematic? We’re not talking about liking the characters, it’s identifying with them.
But thats sounds like changing him. What do you recommend then? Responsible writing seems vague, what are you considering responsible writing and are there instances were you feel he was written irresponsible?
Right, I have no issue with those people. I’m not saying every Joker fan is a heartless monster who should be disregarded. I’m just trying to identify a possible problem I’ve seen first hand a concerning amount of times. Obviously first hand experience isn’t enough, but I’m curious if others have seen this as well.
Sure! To start, the Joker is a character that is very diverse, I mean just look at the different interpretations in film alone (from Heath Ledger to Mark Hammil to Cesar Romero). I think the main thing I’m looking to avoid is edgy for the sake of being an edgy and marketable character. Jared Leto comes to mind but that’s probably just because of someone I know personally REALLY obsessing and identifying with him so there’s an undeniable bias there. That being said, I think the Batman TAS version or even an extreme one like Brian Azarello’s take are both great peices of work that look into him as a character but don’t glorify him like suicide squad did in my eyes
I don’t feel like it’s an automatic warning sign. As has been said to death, you can appreciate a character’s motivations without losing sight of when their actions are extreme, just as you can aesthetically appreciate something without idealizing it. The idea that popular media (video games, for instance) cause violence has been popular, but is not well supported. The Joker film, for example, despite wide-spread fear-mongering to the contrary, failed to spark any violent incidents.