@salmanabbas
Interesting question. I’ll do it based on trades since that’s how you did it, but I’ve included some upcoming ones. Typed this up quick so it may not be 100% as to how I feel about the stories in relation to one another.
1.)I Am Gotham
2.)The Rules of Engagement
3.)I Am Bane
4.)Bride or Burglar
5.)I Am Suicide
6.)Cold Days
7.)The Wedding
8.)The Tyrant Wing
9.)The War of Jokes and Riddles
10.)The Fall and the Fallen (so far)
11.)Knightmares
Batwoman and Supersons are part of Rebirth because
Batwoman cames from Detective Comics arcs.
Supersons from Superman arcs
I can’t wait until I have some more time to delve into replies. Thank you all for such a great conversation.
It seems other than Batman, Green Arrow is easily the most controversial placement. I need some of you GA fans to explain not just that I’m wrong but why I’m wrong. Remember, I just read the first arc, so you have to explain why those whole skinless Ninth Circle guys were a good villainous group and why the story that went along with it worked for you.
You gotta keep reading it past the first arc it’s the first series in a while that got Oliver and Dinah back together that’s a big plus for me
Also you find out Oliver’s family funded the ninth circle
Talia was trained by the League of Assassins. This would be the League of Assassins who serve as Ninja cannon fodder for every superhero? I know they are talk a big game, but when is the last time a regular member of the League of Assassins actually gave a superhero a good fight? The League of Assassins standards aren’t actually that high from a feats perspective, and if you are training the daughter of the Demon’s Head, are you really going to push the princess super hard or just give her a little training and then talk about how accomplished she is? Catwoman has been fighting to survive on the mean streets of Gotham from her youth. Nobody was taking it easy on her. She’s fought dozens or perhaps even hundreds of super-villains without an army of Ninja fodder to back her up.
Honestly, I think Talia probably should have had the advantage, but Selina getting the victory isn’t outrageous. I’d expect them to have a pretty good fight though I agree it would have been more fitting and believable if Selina had won through trickery.
Still haven’t read I Am Suicide, but that sounds stupid. I actually read the first story with Deadman yesterday. It was good.
I don’t think King’s Batman has generally been out of character, but from what I hear, he gets worse as it goes. My opinion might change when I get further into his arc.
I love Tynion’s Detective Comics. It feels like a real throwback to the 90’s era in the way it uses Spoiler, Tim Drake, Azrael and some of the costume designs and I love that. It’s also just a rock solid story that focuses on the Bat Family. I wish they’d make a dedicated title for the Bat Family though Detective was acting that way through Tynion’s run.
Why do you like Green Arrow so much and what do you dislike about Batman?
@NathanPayson
I didn’t include Batwoman or Super Sons for the same reason I didn’t include Justice League of America, The Terrifics or Silencer. I was just focusing on the 2016 titles from the first year of Rebirth. I haven’t yet read Super Sons, but I’ve heard good things. I just realized I didn’t read the epilogue to Batwoman’s first arc, so maybe that would change my opinion, but if I had to rank it now, I’d put it at 22.5 in the lowest Meh position. It wasn’t awful but I didn’t find anything of real interest about the story. It felt terribly generic which is disappointing considering how much I enjoyed Williamson and Tynion’s work on the character. I’d put Justice League of America at 25.5. The only redeeming aspect of this was Killer Frost’s trying to be a good person. The rest was superhero action with zero impact for me. Haven’t read any other Rebirth ongoing titles.
The first arc of GA didn’t do much for me though it seems I’m in the minority.
I didn’t think the first arc of Nightwing was bad, but it didn’t really grab me. Felt like there were pacing issues with it and I thought Dick was a bit passive in his own title being pulled along by other characters.
@Nickweiser and @XBones
I’ve really been enjoying what I’ve read of Jurgens’ Superman. I’ve heard Bendis’ run is highly divisive.
@Yutzy
I am also interested in Bane trying to mentally break the Bat. I enjoyed Tynion’s run on Detective Comics and don’t think it was at all typical, but after Tynion wrapped, it felt like business as usual to me which is when I dropped the series. I wish Tynion would have continued.
I also appreciate that they brought Dinah and Ollie back together in GA though I wish they would have just retconned their previous lack of a relationship. Wasn’t that partially the point of Rebirth and was there anything really worthwhile that came out of them being separated worth keeping? However, it bugged me that they met, slept together instantly and then acted as if they were back to the pre-52 continuity of being old lovers. It went from, “I met you once,” to “You are the most important thing in my life,” in less than 24 hours, and that was a bizarre choice.
I know I keep coming back to it, but anything with the Ninth Circle is a bit difficult to take seriously when they are broiling their skin off for no apparent reason. I thought the basic idea of evil criminal bankers was clever, but the execution left a lot to be desired. On a positive note, I do recall enjoying the art in GA.
Titans had alot of potential. I thought It started off good. Cyborg was disappointing, if only he could get a new ongoing series, that would be awesome. Flash and red hood has been favorite s
Wait, your ranking of Batman is based only on the first arc? If so, then we don’t actually need to fight. The first arc wasn’t great, but it was at least alright. I Am Suicide, I Am Bane, and The War of Jokes and Riddles are all atrocious. Not even for the same reasons, either; they’re all bad in their own special ways. After each one was worse than the last, I had to bail.
@BatJamags No, I asked BatWatch and they said they started with I Am Bane and have been following it ever since
Ah, never mind then.
Yes and no. I have read probably 85% of the first 55 issues of Batman and so greatly enjoyed it overall and think it has many excellent moments. That doesn’t mean I defend everything in there as great. For instance, I completely agree with Squid that Catwoman KOing three flashes is buuuulcrap! I’m sure I could find much more I dislike, but the positives have outweighed the negatives for me.
I tried to just compare the first arc in this list, but it’s hard no to factor in the later stuff. I tried and I really enjoyed I Am Gotham. Other than Wonder Woman, I haven’t read extensively any other series so it seems unfair to try and compare them as a whole. Who has time to read that much anyway? I certain don’t.
Perhaps with time, I’ll hate Batman too. I hear King stuff gets worse as it goes. The KGBeast story is the only arc I’d call bad and its the last one I read. I haven’t read I am suicide yet. I loved the War of Jokes and Riddles and nobody has told me what they hate about it yet just that they hate it.
Everything that happens in the War of Jokes and Riddles feels unmotivated. The Riddler is given an unnecessary edgy visual makeover, while the Joker decides he doesn’t like telling jokes. Somehow the entire Gotham underworld (along with a few other random villains) splits perfectly down the middle under their banners even though neither of them is particularly popular. This leads to fanservicey moments like King’s forced Kite-Man meme getting an overwrought backstory and Deathstroke and Deadshot having a fight that somehow lasts longer than three seconds even though Deathstroke is far better suited to an open combat situation. This leads to Batman trying to kill the Riddler even though he’s restrained himself much better in the face of much worse crimes so that the Joker can stop it. It’s like a King started with a list of sentences that began with “Wouldn’t it be cool if…” and didn’t really think any of it through.
Disagree strongly with all that. I might actually be more confused by your dislike of it now than before you answered.
“Everything that happens in the War of Jokes and Riddles feels unmotivated…while the Joker decides he doesn’t like telling jokes.”
Joker loses his sense of humor because jokes are only funny if you don’t know the punch line and his form of comedy, crime, is only funny if you don’t know how it ends. Batman beating Joker every time runs the crimes and ruins the jokes. He’s essentially in a depressed rut and goes on a crime scene killing people in various ways that should strike him as funny in order to try and find the laughs and get Batman’s attention. Riddler is in the same boat as Joker only with his Riddles. Bats always solves the Riddles, so what’s the point in being the Riddler? Riddler is motivated to join forces with Joker because he thinks that together they can solve both their problems and lays out an excellent case for them joining forces. Joker shoots Riddler because he thought undercutting Riddler’s big speech might make for a funny joke because he’s motivated by a desire to rekindle the humor. After this, Riddler and Joker are now also motivated by animosity for one another. Kite Man is motivated by a desire to impress his son and then revenge. Batman is motivated to stop the crimes like usual and then on a framing level he’s motivated to tell Catwoman about a time he stooped to what he sees as the level of a villain because he has always presented himself to Selina as a noble warrior for the cause or justice and he fears she will not look at him the same way if she knows he’s not always lived up to his lofty ideals he claims to uphold, but he thinks she should know before she agrees to marry him.
Considering that most comic book motivations involve nothing more than. “I am villain. I want power and revenge because power and revenge is awesome,” and, “I am hero. I stop crime because crime bad,” I’d say the motivations for these characters is significantly more nuanced than 90% of superhero stories.
“The Riddler is given an unnecessary edgy visual makeover,”
If you don’t like Riddler’s look, to each their own, but I don’t really get the criticism. Virtually every artist puts a new spin on villains. I didn’t even remember they changed his look for this, and the big look change was no hat and a low cut V-neck shirt. I think the shirt’s a little silly, but it’s such a small thing it didn’t even register. Were you also concerned when they took him out of his onesie costume and gave him a suit and cap? What about when some artist give him a cane and some do not? Capullo gave him sideburns and a long purple ribbon attached to his mask. Heck, when the New 52 first launched he briefly had a question mark mohawk in Batman #1.
I like seeing different takes on characters.
“Somehow the entire Gotham underworld (along with a few other random villains) splits perfectly down the middle under their banners even though neither of them is particularly popular.”
I missed the Pew research poll on how popular different villains were among the Gotham underworld, so you’ll have to send me a link to that study. From what I can see, both Riddler and Joker have little trouble procuring henchmen, and I’m not sure why it’s farfetched to believe that most of the members of Gotham’s criminals would join one side or another were it in their financial or power interests. Team-ups among super-villains and even whole two-sided wars have happened in Batman comics previously. Also, let’s not forget that not everybody did participate. Plenty of Batman’s rogues made no appearances, Catwoman stayed neutral and Kite Man switched sides. The whole world (more or less) has been at war fighting on one of two sides. I don’t see why the concept is too far fetched for a comic book that criminals would fight and kill if they were being paid to do so.
“This leads to fanservicey moments like King’s forced Kite-Man meme getting an overwrought backstory.”
I loved the story for Kite Man, and I had no idea it was a meme. It’s the only interesting story I know of to star Kite Man. I certainly never cared for him before, but now I think he’s kind of cute…and yet tragic…because everyone in comics is tragic.
“…and Deathstroke and Deadshot having a fight that somehow lasts longer than three seconds even though Deathstroke is far better suited to an open combat situation.”
This fight also happened in Secret Six where they were said to be evenly matched. That series is generally well regarded.
Still, I’ll agree with you that Deathstroke should wreck Deadshot pretty quickly up close, and there is a single panel of the two fighting up close in this story. Most of it is a sniper battle where I think they are more evenly matched, but I concede Deadshot would have an extremely hard time even escaping from Slade up close. That being said, crap like this is constant in comics. Flash should speed blitz almost every super villain on the planet, and yet he doesn’t. Super villains who hit Superman and Diana constantly can never seem to tag Batman. If this level of nitpicking ruins stories for you, few comic book stories could be read and enjoyed.
“This leads to Batman trying to kill the Riddler even though he’s restrained himself much better in the face of much worse crimes so that the Joker can stop it.”
By definition, I would say emotional outbursts aren’t strictly logical. I’ve gone through some of the hardest times in my life and not been rude to someone and then had just a slightly bad day and lost my temper. I don’t see any problem with Bruce having lost it in that scene. Emotions are weird.
“It’s like a King started with a list of sentences that began with “Wouldn’t it be cool if…” and didn’t really think any of it through.”
I thought it all worked brilliantly.
Bump for reedited list.
Below is my original version in case anybody wants to compare. The new version with all the new titles are at the top.
I have read the first arc or more of each of the 2016 Rebirth titles, and I am unveiling my official ranking from best to worst. Since I am some random guy on the internet, clearly my opinion must be the objective and unquestionable truth.
Fight me if you disagree.
Great Series
Batman
Action Comics
New Superman
Superman
Flash
Detective Comics
Batgirl and Birds of Prey
Wonder Woman
Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps
Deathstroke
Good Series
Red Hood the Outlaws
Green Lanterns
Aquaman
Teen Titans
Batman Beyond
Meh Series
Titans
Trinity
All-Star Batman
Nightwing
Hellblazer
Suicide Squad
Supergirl
Bad Series
Green Arrow
Cyborg
Justice League
Superwoman
Harley Quinn
Blue Beetle
Great?? I don’t know if any of it has been classic. I really liked Detective Comics a
with Tynion. Red Hood is just consistently fun to me.
I love red hood and the outlaws! (As you can tell by my name) It was the first series I read on this app and the first time I had heard of the character. It was real easy to get into and I loved whenever Jason had memories and red was the only color you could see. It really stood out to me.
Nightwing was the first Dc comic series I followed consistently. I loved Seeley’s run and the same for Percy’s. I just feel that the Ric plot started at a horrible time, right whenever Nightwing was finishing that race. It was a great plot that, in my opinion, was really going somewhere until it was interrupted.
I really like the way that Superman is depicted in Tomasi’s run and the relationship he had with Jon.
Also, is the Teen Titans with Damian any good? It was the very first Dc comic I ever read but I never got very far because I didn’t know that there was the Lazarus Contract story so I felt like something was missing. Is it worth picking back up?
I don’t understand why everyone has Green Arrow so low on their lists. It was a return to form for the character. We saw the return of elements from Pre-Flashpoint Green Arrow and just a few elements from New 52 that managed to work. I loved the usage of Emiko as Red Arrow (not the TV version). I was so bummed that it ended. I can’t wait to see what they are gonna do with the character (who hasn’t done much outside of Event: Leviathan.
I was pleasantly impressed by RHATO. I’m not a fan of Lobdell most of the time. I found his run on the first volume of RHATO a guilty pleasure, but from what I’ve read on RHATO Volume 2, it’s much improved having much superior character and plot development.
Nightwing is another where I just read the first arc, and it was fine. I forget the name of the character introduced in Better Than Batman. I think I found him more interesting when he was a vigilante, but when they revealed him to be more of a bad guy at the end of the arc, it just struck me as a bit predictable. I was kind of expecting it but hoping it wouldn’t turn out that way. It’s not bad, but it’s just a little well worn. I think a different actual mentor character might have proven a more interesting route for exploration. I haven’t made it to Rick Grayson, but I’ve heard almost everybody complain that it sucks.
I loved the Superman series. Tomasi did an excellent job bringing the heart to that the whole family. I originally preferred Jurgens work on Action Comics, and I still love that run as well, but Tomasi almost always landing the heart eventually convinced me that was the superior book.
I’ve read a dozen or so of the Teen Titans Rebirth series, and I’m kind of undecided on it, honestly. I ranked it as a low good, but I could easily give it a high meh. It varied in quality. I felt the original creative team paid too much attention to Damian and didn’t give the other characters much room for development. It feels like they exist to service Damian’s story. It does kind of have a fun vibe, but it just isn’t doing anything spectacular in my book. After a little while, a new creative team took over, and I heard it was essentially a complete relaunch with a vastly different feel, but I haven’t read that version yet. The Lazarus Contact thing interrupted my flow of the series too as I was reading hard copies at the time, and I didn’t get the point. In general, it feels like TT crossed over unnecessarily a lot perhaps trying to boost its numbers. On the app, all those tie-ins and crossovers should be here, so that’s no barrier. If you enjoy Damian, you’ll probably enjoy the series at least okay.
My background is that I’ve read the first thirty or so issues of Grell’s GA run, and I’ve watched most seasons of the show which I know are a pretty loose adaptation. I’ve read a ton of DC Comics in general, so I’ve seen GA, but I’m not hugely knowledgable, so I’m not commenting as someone who would be invested in a return to form.
I’ve actually heard a lot of positive talk about the Rebirth launch of GA. I’m just not one of them.
I only read the first arc of GA, so it’s hardly a comprehensive review. I did like the feel of GA’s character and the general feel of the story. What killed it for me was the huge numbers of tropes, contrivances, and nonsense.
The biggest one is Oliver having a one-night stand with Dinah, a character he had only met once previously in current continuity (they say that in the first issue), and then them acting immediately like they are long-term lovers deeply in love. It’s pretty stupid from the get-go, but it becomes ludicrous when the villains on the advice of the Oliver’s sister (I think. I’m not up to date on GA supporting cast, and I read this a year ago) decides to target Black Canary as the way to get to her heart. It was all an attempt to reset to the status quo, but it was poorly executed, and the “Strike at him through his heart,” is so cliche.
Speaking of cliche, let me know introduce this brand new character who is extremely close to Ollie but has never been seen previously. He’s in charge of Oliver’s company, but he’s totally someone Oliver would trust with his life. Gee wilikers, something funny is going on with Queen Industries. Who could be behind this? I wonder. Oh no, trusted friend the audience has never seen and would clearly not mind if he turned into a villain because nobody gives a crap. Your a villain. Didn’t see that coming.
Then I could do the same thing about the whole Oliver’s sister shoots Oliver to make it look like she’s mad at him but she’s totally not mad at him, she just had to look like she’s mad at him while she was really saving him. I saw it coming. You saw it coming. Everybody saw it coming.
Then there’s the villains. I actually like the whole, “The villains are bankers,” angle because it’s funny and playing off those leftist roots of the character, but why were they taking off their skin. I mean, sure it makes them look creepy, but why are they taking off their skins? WHY?!?! It’s never explained in any meaningful way.
So GA ended and the character is in limbo now? Must suck to be a GA fan. You never know what kind of take you are going to get from him or how long it will be before he gets his series back. I’m sorry.
Of course, they basically destroyed my favorite, Tim Drake, for the entire New 52, and he still hasn’t got a new solo series. At least there is Young Justice now, but the whole Drake thing. (Facepalm)