The Superman Thread

New Krypton kicks ass!

Yeah, its funny how “fans” come out to trash things, but gee-golly-darn, you don’t ever see them appreciate good things at the same time.

People piss and moan about how DC is “dying” on YouTube and elsewhere, but are those same people then singing the virtues of World’s Finest and emphasizing the good things in the current milieu?

Very likely not, and very telling that most of those being highly-critical are just looking for a bandwagon to jump on and are only basing their opinions on what others are saying, rather than reading the comics and making up their minds for themselves.

:smile: As the best on-screen Judge Dredd once said, “I knew you’d say that!”

:fist_right:t2: :fist_left:t2:

So…SUPERMAN!

What’d we think of the Kal-El Returns Special?

Its on my desk, but I’m working ATM, so I don’t have time to read it in-full, right now.

“Yet you have time to check in here?”

Don’t give me :poop: about my time management skills. You’re not my boss, I am. :wink:

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Just read it. I liked it quite a bit, but it was not what I was expecting. I was expecting a book that furthered the plot of the Kal-El returns crossover. Instead, the Kal-El Returns Special is an anthology of short stories covering Kal’s immediate return to Earth from Warworld. The stories were good, but this was not what I incorrectly assumed it was.

To start, Mark Waid’s Superman/Batman story was my favorite of the bunch. There are not too many people I would trust to write a Morrison Doom Patrol character like Mr. Nobody. Since Waid was the editor of Morrison’s Doom Partol, he did it perfectly. It also suggests we’ll see more of Mr. Nobody in future issues of World’s Finest! Next, Sina Grace’s Jimmy Olsen story is the least thrilling in the book, but I liked what it was saying. It was a nice statement about the state of the world and technology and about how the modern concept of justice is viewed through the lens of compassion. It was nice to see Kal acknowledge that the world is changing and his place in it is, as well.

The third story is a nice Marv Wolfman piece. It kind of re-covered some ground we already covered in the Superman: Son of Kal-El Annual with Jon outsmarting Lex. However, the story, itself, was solid and I liked Jack Herbert’s art. Finally, Alex Segura’s home really threw me for a loop. Justice League #75 had me assuming that Kal had been plucked from the orbit of Warworld into the events of Dark Crisis during the liberation of Mongul’s planet. However, this story reveals that Superman was actually plucked from Warworld’s orbit while it was in orbit around the Earth. That means Dark Crisis presumably happens AFTER Warworld’s liberation and, likely, before the events of Kal-El Returns. This completely changes my perception of the recent DCU timeline. Otherwise, the story itself was a nice, sentimental piece about the League.

So, yeah, the Kal-El Returns Special is worth the read, but was not what I was expecting.

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New Krypton lead directly to the nadir which is Grounded.
sadbatmanissad

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Yeah… I really, really don’t like Grounded, but I don’t blame New Krypton for it as Grounded basically ignored what happened in it.

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Well, Grounded’s final issue basically ignored what JMS was doing in Grounded. But New Krypton directly lead to two things: diminished sales and interest in the super family and super books, which is why they gave carte blanche to JMS to do what he wanted since they thought he would give them a long, healthy run (HA!) on Superman that would be commercially and critically (HA, HA HA) successful. It also gave JMS the ideas of the initial plot points of Grounded.

Thus, New Krypton is to blame for being a Messy B and for Grounded.

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:man_shrugging: Fair enough, I guess. I always said that New 52 happened for a reason and you just gave a pretty good run-down of one of those reasons.

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And since its the Superman Thread, we can blame Kevin Smith and Jon Peters for the failure of the DCEU, since Peter’s Large-Spider-Fetish lead directly to the hiring of Zach Snyder. Although we can partially blame cocaine for the WB Suits desire to have Brainiac fight polar bears.

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Should we also blame Bryan Singer for failing to make Superman Returns a hit and George Miller for wanting to shoot Justice League Mortal in Australia while we’re at it? Oh! And the Writers Guild of America for their 2007-8 strike? Y’know, since we’re blaming people for things they weren’t directly involved in…

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No.
Singers gets blamed for walking off Last Stand. Although Jon Peter’s still deserves 66% of the blame. And Richard Donner and Lauren Shular Donner deserves 12%. Especially Lauren since she kept hiring Harris, versus leaving him along unlike Dougherty (and they deserve 7% of the blame), and you can tell by the dearth of their resume credits (in Harris’ case, non Shular Donner credits) that no one was willing to hire them to write even a label for a can of soup.

And McG’s Fear-Of-Flying deserves the remaining 10%.

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New 52 is my favorite Wonder Woman, out of what I read of her stories so far (everything from New 52 to present day).

Doomed was great. One of my favorites.

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Eh, I liked Grounded, so win-win in my four eyes. :nerd_face:

As Cosmo Kramer says, “Boss!” :fist_right:t2: :fist_left:t2:

tugs on his “New 52 WW is my fav’rit, too!” t-shirt

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I really enjoyed New 52’s Wonder Woman, as well! Or, at least, Azzarello’s Wonder Woman run in New 52. It made my top 10 Wonder Woman stories list. However, I know it’s a bit controversial within the greater Wonder Woman fanbase.

I think Doomed holds up. It was a good story that played on the concepts of how people may view Superman as a threat because of the power he wields and how Kal’s essential nature overcomes out of control power levels. The concept behind it is a little silly, I’ll admit, but a good story with something behind it.

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Speaking of Doomed, and courtesy of Mattel in 2016:

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One of the problems I had over the entire New 52 was that so many of the OC villains they tried to come up with had just incredible dumb and frankly often stupid names (H’El) and even worse costumes and designs. Doomed was just a really good exemplar of that entire fallacy of the editorial conceptualization.

See this design, for example, from Jim Lee, who really should know better:

And don’t get me wrong. I’m all down with and for absurdities in designs. The entire concept of glasses as an ACTUALLY flawless disguise for Superman while Clark Kent


or the idea that the clone of Lex Luthor and Superman is running around wearing sunglasses to help with his Non-Laser-Eye Powers
clone boy is clone
stuff like that totally works for me, although there’s an admittedly built in nostalgia bias for the older designs with it’s incumbent familiarity, and even some of the classic designs (and here, we can point the finger again at Kon) are bordering or toeing the line at over done, which is why when Bendis or Gleason decides to do a flourish like add spikes to the leather jacket, it is - once again - stupidly absurd and, frankly, unnecessary. Like knee pads on Kara Zor-El’s New 52 outfit, which - also as a gift from her father to a teenage daughter - also frankly stupidly absurd.

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Scott Lobdell’s work on the New 52, in general, and on Superman, in particular, is somewhat questionable. I think there were a lot of problems with H’El on Earth including that name. My favorite part of it was probably Superman and Conner interacting for the first time in that timeline, but the rest… could take it or leave it.

Honestly, that looks like a classic Jim Lee design to me. He’s a wonderful artist but he loves superfluous character designs…

In general, though, character designs and their practicality don’t really sway me much. That’s not something I put a lot of analysis into when deciding whether I like a comic/character/era or not.

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I dug that design, and so too did Todd McFarlane, and not just once, but twice:

Original flavor:

Extra-crispy (i.e. Walmart exclusive):

I’m a mark for Jim Lee though (Superman Unchained was my favorite New 52 Superbook), so what others may see as silly, I see as badass. :grin:

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You are a Wildstorm guy. :laughing:

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Tom Hardy GIF

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notice me using a DC specific reaction image like a good community member

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When I read posts like yours, I feel like something is wrong with me :joy:.

I’m guilty of fanboying and liking stuff a little too much, but I don’t I think I’ve ever garnered the level of disdain some folks have for certain eras, runs, designs, movies etc. Sure I’ve disliked stuff (cough The Batman cough), but I never feel as strongly about the stuff I dislike as I do about the stuff I like.

Reading that back, it sounds convoluted. I need to ease my way back into the forums and post about an action figure or something.

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