Discussion questions for week 2 have been added! 
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Part 2:
1: I feel Batman is lost himself and Bruce Wayne due to the Death of Dick Grayson…and possibly Barbara Joan Gordan as the author does mention Batman 66 was an inspiration to him as a kid(in the extra’s in the GN. and You can tell by how Joker was drawn.)
2: hmm I would say it was a hallucination…I have had pneumonia and you can trip on that.
3: Well…Batman and Catwoman…and rooftops…hmm…well I would say the story takes place however it’s mentioned that the teller of the tale is drunk when he tells it. The shock you can see on Catwoman’s face as her bat falls shows.
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Actually I find this question hard to answer, as chill takes the purse but not the pearls…and shoots them in the back…I think it was a hit.
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I think he is a good choice for the ghost of Christmas present, and I feel as batmans best friend he would check on him over the holidays especially if he lost dick as this implies. also really seeing superman come down from the heavens would be the only reason Selina would leave Bruce to his fall when she is not under mind control.
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I do think that he’s really lost his way, when it comes to how he views kids. Given how his entire life was shaped by a childhood trauma, I thought it was pretty said that he told Clark he planned to terrify a kid so much he would never become a criminal.
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It seemed more like a hallucination than anything else. It seems to me like if it was a vision or visitation by a spirit, there would have maybe been more than just an image, like maybe Robin would’ve passed along a message.
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I’m not sure about this part. A lot of the narration seems a little embellished or metaphorical, and it’s kind of hard to tell if the narrator is just making the story more colorful, or trying to make it fit the Christmas Carol mold more, or if all of the events are allegorical and didn’t happen.
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I hadn’t made this connection, but I definitely think it works. It seems like a big part of Bruce’s problem in this story is that he’s seeing everything in the same shade of black, basically, and treating every lawbreaker as literally being just as bad as the Joker, whether it’s Catwoman or Bob. Obviously crime is bad, but thinking a petty street criminal is as bad as a psychotic mass murderer and needs to be handled exactly the same is not helping anyone.
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I was very happy to see Superman appear (and not least because I think he looks amazing in this art style). He’s almost unfailingly positive and hopeful, and his super-senses allow him to have a really good perspective on the world, which comes into play in this issue. Also, it should be a little bit of a wakeup call for most people if Superman pays you a visit because he thinks you’ve lost your way a little bit.
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1: Batman states “They all have children” when Alfred questions him about the risks he’s taking. Do you think that Batman has lost his way in this statement or is it sometimes necessary to risk the innocent in the fight against crime?
It may be necessary to risk the innocent in the fight against crime, but this was definitely not a situation that called for it, obviously Batman has lost his way. I wonder with the emphasis on Robin, was this taking place right after Jason’s death.
2: When Robin appears to Bruce in the Batcave, do you think this was a vision or a hallucination caused by his sickness?why not both
3: On page 40, the narrator states that a beautiful girl appears at Batman’s bedside, but the following scene with Catwoman takes place on a rooftop. Do you think this is an error made by the narrator, or an indication that a majority of the night’s events never actually happened?Interesting question, I think the editor might’ve been using an allegory here that is over my head, but more like Batman’s bedside was stalking criminals or something
4: On Page 48, we’re taking back to the tragic death of Bruce’s parents. Do you think their killer is in a similar position to Bob? Just a desperate man doing whatever he can to survive who makes a mistake? As to both being desperate , yes but one committed murder, and went into crime with a weapon, so far unless I missed it Bob, has t been seen with a weapon
5: Superman’s appearance in Gotham comes as somewhat of a surprise. Do you think he’s a good choice for the Ghost of Christmas Present? Yes, like Christmas present, he showed him the world around him in a more hopeful light.
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Joining the club in the middle of the discussion (2nd Third set), I am picking Number 5 to write a response. I think Superman was perfect in the role of Christmas Present. The original Christmas Carol Ghost of Christmas Present was a larger-than-life colorful character that reminds me of the Roman God Jupiter. Superman fits that bill: colorful, bright, hopeful, powerful. I liked that he was cast in the role of Christmas Present. And, as others have mentioned in general, I’m totally “wowed” by Bermejo’s art!
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Alright! Round 2 of questions. 
Pardon me Wonder Woman while I try and make Batman’s heart grow three sizes larger. 
This was a statement from Batman that’s for sure. 
Definitely unfortunate circumstances have shaped this point of view for Batman to be this harsh in his response to Alfred. 
Perhaps a nice reminder for why Batman does what he does would shift it back to not putting any risk for innocents being in danger in the fight against crime which thankfully did come later . 
It might have been a bit of both. 
Alfred sure knows how to take care of Master Bruce so that cold medicine might have allowed Bruce to see more than normal circumstances might have allowed. 
Curious, yes, curious as to this word choice for Batman’s location. 
I don’t think it is an error made by the narrator, but also think some events of the night did happen… Maybe since the story shifts its time frame looking at events from the past, to the present, and I’m sure eventually future, maybe it was just a statement made from the future point in time. 
Looking at the expression given in that moment it looks like a face of remorse and perhaps even horror in taking those shots that killed Thomas and Martha. 
So it is a giant mistake to make and it shares some similarities to Bob in being desperate like Bob. However, if Joe Chill wanted, he could have just demanded Thomas and Martha’s money and not killed them… Except that is not how the story unfolded so it’s not quite a similar position to Bob…
Ah, yes Superman is quite the sight in Gotham just like it was as seen in the past in World’s Finest #76.
So yes, definitely a good choice for the Ghost of Christmas Present. Nice to see Superman take a look with Batman around the city at all the people of Gotham and that they were thriving and just maybe provide some leeway in how Batman deals with people in the future by offering another perspective Batman might have overlooked due to the continual struggle faced in Gotham daily. 
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Hello @Jitsu,
I’ve read more of Batman: Noel today, I have to say that I love this artwork picture of Batman and Robin…
Now on to answering questions,
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I probably say it’s a reckless statement, assuming if it’s true, he should question criminals when their kids are not around, later we see he plan to scare Tiny Tim so he won’t commit crime, Sorry Batman that’s not how it works. Teaching the kids what’s right and wrong are the right way to go like Shoplifting is a crime, it’s wrong to steal.
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I’m thinking this Robin is Jason Todd, so this story must’ve took place right after his death and just before Tim Drake, Catwoman did say his additude change. I’m gonna say it’s a vision of the past, Poor Robin was dead, as dead as a doornail, by the way I also like his Batsuit collection in the Batcave.
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Nah, I think Rooftop has always been Batman’s bed, and dealing with criminals are his nightmares.
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Nope. Cause Joe Chill was a murderer and a coward who doesn’t give a second thought. Bob on the other hand is a complete opposite, trying to find someway to make money without hurting anybody, maybe he was a con artist, but who knows.
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He’s definitely is, Superman is definitely a man of hope, Can’t wait to see who the Ghost of the future will be, if it’s Phantasm, then this will be my favorite graphic Novel story since The Long Halloween!
Merry Christmas @Jitsu, hope you have a wonderful Christmas and can’t wait to read more next week. 
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Batman states “They all have children” when Alfred questions him about the risks he’s taking. Do you think that Batman has lost his way in this statement or is it sometimes necessary to risk the innocent in the fight against crime?
I mean, he’s not wrong. Just because someone has sired a child doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of horrible things. But I think the fact that he’s putting this child in danger, even indirectly, does show that Bruce is losing track of why he started his mission in the first place.
When you get down to it, the reason why Batman started his crusade was to prevent others from suffering the way he did. Risking the life of a child’s parent, perhaps even the child’s life as well, definitely goes against Batman’s stated goal.
I feel like what’s going on with Bruce is something called “empathy fatigue,” a condition that is common among first responders (though in the past couple of years it appears to be more common with a lot more people because of…well, you know) where someone witnesses so much suffering and pain that as a defense mechanism the brain just shuts that abillity down. Here’s a link to more about it:
When Robin appears to Bruce in the Batcave, do you think this was a vision or a hallucination caused by his sickness?
I don’t know if there’s enough to really distinguish one from the other. I do think there’s a sort of dream logic to how it’s presented, because we really don’t see the conversation, we’re just told what “Robin” says. Of course, there’s the practical reason where having the narrator tell us cuts back on the amount of pages needed to tell the story, but it does fit with stuff in dreams where you see something and someone and you just know what is going on.
Another way to look at it that I don’t think has been mentioned is that it was actually the ghost of Robin that came to Batman. I mean, this is in the DC universe – and not even the kind of DC story you sometimes see where it’s just Batman in a more grounded universe, we see Superman here as an established fact. If Superman is around, you can assume the rest of the DCU is in this world as well, and not only has Batman encountered ghosts before, he’s both fought and teamed-up with them before.
On page 40, the narrator states that a beautiful girl appears at Batman’s bedside, but the following scene with Catwoman takes place on a rooftop. Do you think this is an error made by the narrator, or an indication that a majority of the night’s events never actually happened?
Maybe? I dunno, I think the “bedside” thing is a product of the narrator combining Batman with A Christmas Carol and we can’t take what the narrator is saying too literally. I mean, after all, the narrator has called Batman “Scrooge” in the past and I think we can presume that that’s not anywhere in Batman or Bruce’s name.
On Page 48, we’re taken back to the tragic death of Bruce’s parents. Do you think their killer is in a similar position to Bob? Just a desperate man doing whatever he can to survive who makes a mistake?
It doesn’t seem that farfetched – most don’t resort to mugging people or being henchmen to maniacs like The Joker if they weren’t truly desperate. Through this story we have an idea that Bob is one of these people, but we don’t really have a lot of context to say the same for the murderer of the Waynes.
Superman’s appearance in Gotham comes as somewhat of a surprise. Do you think he’s a good choice for the Ghost of Christmas Present?
Definitely – the Ghost of Christmas Present is often described as a big and jolly man full of life and vigor, and that’s definitely been descriptions for Superman.
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1: Batman states “They all have children” when Alfred questions him about the risks he’s taking. Do you think that Batman has lost his way in this statement or is it sometimes necessary to risk the innocent in the fight against crime?
- I Have to agree with some of my fellow Gothamites, in that he has lost his way and could possibly inflict the same damage on those children that he set out to stop to begin with.
2: When Robin appears to Bruce in the Batcave, do you think this was a vision or a hallucination caused by his sickness?
- Someone else stated, isn’t that the same thing, There are no rules as it pertains to dreams, so it seems to me they are one in the same.
3: On page 40, the narrator states that a beautiful girl appears at Batman’s bedside, but the following scene with Catwoman takes place on a rooftop. Do you think this is an error made by the narrator, or an indication that a majority of the night’s events never actually happened?
- Thats a tricky one I’m sorry for not catching the names, but someone said. Batman stay’s on the Rooftops and could be considered his bed. But one of the questions in the first set asked about the comparison to Dickens. At this point of the story, we begin to see the connection and this entire story could be just a dream.
4: On Page 48, we’re taken back to the tragic death of Bruce’s parents. Do you think their killer is in a similar position to Bob? Just a desperate man doing whatever he can to survive who makes a mistake?
- Due to Cannon, we know a bit more about Joe Chill and he is not the same as Bob, perhaps he was at one time, but by the time he muggs the Waynes he is a hardened criminal, where Bob is just doing a bad thing for a good reason, just trying to make a little money for his family.
5: Superman’s appearance in Gotham comes as somewhat of a surprise. Do you think he’s a good choice for the Ghost of Christmas Present?
- It doesn’t surprise me at all. But the idea of the present being hopeful, Superman is a good choice. The symbol on his chest means hope so there’s that. The only other option I think could be considered would be Nightwing, but Nightwing couldn’t fly him across the city back to his car.
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1: Batman states “They all have children” when Alfred questions him about the risks he’s taking. Do you think that Batman has lost his way in this statement or is it sometimes necessary to risk the innocent in the fight against crime?
I think Batman lost his way following the death of Jason Todd. He thinks the children of criminals will most likely end up like their parents.
2: When Robin appears to Bruce in the Batcave, do you think this was a vision or a hallucination caused by his sickness?
I believe this was a vision that came at a desperate time for Bruce Wayne.
3: On page 40, the narrator states that a beautiful girl appears at Batman’s bedside, but the following scene with Catwoman takes place on a rooftop. Do you think this is an error made by the narrator, or an indication that a majority of the night’s events never actually happened?
It’s possible that the events might be taking place in Bruce’s dreams.
4: On Page 48, we’re taken back to the tragic death of Bruce’s parents. Do you think their killer is in a similar position to Bob? Just a desperate man doing whatever he can to survive who makes a mistake?
I think Bruce’s parent’s killer, Joe Chill, is a cold remorseless murderer unlike Bob.
5: Superman’s appearance in Gotham comes as somewhat of a surprise. Do you think he’s a good choice for the Ghost of Christmas Present?
I think Superman is a good choice as the Ghost of Christmas Present. He can pick up Batman and fly him somewhere that could show him perspectives of humanity in the world he never realized before.
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Great to hear from Black Adam and hope we get a Black Adam selection to read with the DC Book Club to coincide with the release of his movie! After all - “the hierarchy and power of the DC Universe is about to change” (on July 29, 2022)!!!
Question for those that run the digital perks (which I LOVE, by the way, thank you for those and for making my phone creepy AF with the Joker “Shining” wallpaper on it) - when I downloaded the three bookmarks I couldn’t help but notice that the files are labeled:
- Batman Noel Bookmark 2
- Batman Noel Bookmark 3
- Batman Noel Bookmark 4
…which begs the question, where’s Batman Noel Bookmark 1??? 
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1: The narrator describes Scrooge as wondering how the citizens of Gotham always “kept the faith” and how they always “seemed to fill a glass that was constantly half empty”. How do you think they kept the faith? In a city full of wild criminals and a seemingly weak police force, how do you think Gotham’s people pushed on?
I think the only way people living in Gotham keep their faith is by not watching the local news. If it was up to me I would have ran out of Gotham City like a bat out of hell (pun intended)!
2: What did you think of Bermejo’s portrayal of Joker as the third spirit? Do you think Joker is a fitting personification of the Ghost of “Gotham Yet-to-Come” (Jitsu trademark, patent pending 
)?
I think using Batman’s arch nemesis as the “Future” Ghost was clever. Batman losing everything to the Joker would be the complete downfall of Gotham City.
3: How did you feel about the representation of Gotham’s future, with violent gangs inspired by Batman and the Joker constantly clashing in the streets? Do you think Batman runs the risk of doing more harm than good?
I think the Batman gangs remind me of the Sons of the Batman from The Dark Knight Returns. Batman’s influence could cause just as much violence it the streets as the Joker’s.
4: Batman seems to struggle with his legacy in the final pages of Batman Noël. How do you think this struggle motivates him to do good in Gotham? Do you believe Batman needs to change his ways in order to preserve his legacy?
He needs to see the hope in every person regardless of their criminal background or actions.
5: The book ends with Bob and his son enjoying a quiet Christmas dinner together. After all that happened in Batman Noël… what do you think? What’s the moral of the story ?
I think the moral of the story is to quit brooding over the past traumas and see that anyone can be their own hero by overcoming their obstacles and circumstances.
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1: The narrator describes Scrooge as wondering how the citizens of Gotham always “kept the faith” and how they always “seemed to fill a glass that was constantly half empty”. How do you think they kept the faith? In a city full of wild criminals and a seemingly weak police force, how do you think Gotham’s people pushed on?
Just like all of us, put your shoes on one at a time, and go out and survive the world, always hoping that it will be a better place, otherwise you are either in Heaven or just going through the motions, without hope for something at the end of the day, one can not carry on. As the old saying go hope springs eternal.
2: What did you think of Bermejo’s portrayal of Joker as the third spirit? Do you think Joker is a fitting personification of the Ghost of “Gotham Yet-to-Come” (Jitsu trademark, patent pending )?
If the Gotham yet to come has lost all hope then yes.
3: How did you feel about the representation of Gotham’s future, with violent gangs inspired by Batman and the Joker constantly clashing in the streets? Do you think Batman runs the risk of doing more harm than good?
Yes, I do, when anyone takes the law into their own hands, instead of society’s, no matter how well intentioned it can lead to the undermining of societal structures and eventually the anarchy you see in Gotham’s future.
4: Batman seems to struggle with his legacy in the final pages of Batman Noël. How do you think this struggle motivates him to do good in Gotham? Do you believe Batman needs to change his ways in order to preserve his legacy?
To preserve his legacy, yes Batman need to change his ways, fighting crime does nothing to address the underlying causes of crimes, and unless he also addresses this issue, he will have no legacy. As to his legacy motivating him, not so far, he is still motivated by revenge for his parents death combined with a savior complex.
5: The book ends with Bob and his son enjoying a quiet Christmas dinner together. After all that happened in Batman Noël… what do you think? What’s the moral of the story ?
It’s never too late to change.
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The thing about change is that it’s definitely possible, but most people don’t want to do it. Nobody can make the decision to change you for the better. You have to open yourself to it.
That’s the fairy tale of A Christmas Carol, in all its forms, including this one. The idea that external forces can make you a better person. They can present you with opportunities, but ultimately the choice is yours.
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They know Batman is out there watching over them along with Catwoman as I feel she would be on the side of the angles…for the most part as she has to do something naughty to get her bat’s attention.
…plus Gothamites are all crazier than others and we humans are nothing if not adaptable creatures. -
‘The future is not set there is no (Dr.) Fate but what we make for ourselves.’ John Conner terminator (yes I went there for a Christmas book) the joker as the ghost of Gotham yet to come is fitting given he likes to consider himself an agent of chaos in modern times.
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it’s fitting as a future brought about by the inspiration of what is a jaded and more brutal version of batman should he die then. It’s also interesting that we see a dude wearing Catwoman’s cowl and goggles as it hints that Catwoman my have been doing more then being a thief). Which could mean Catwoman is killed during the riots following batman’s death. Given we also see gordan getting sentenced to life in prison and the Wayne estate sold at auction it’s hard to interpret what is going on in bruce’s fevered dream. but it seems he is seeing how his death would affect those he cares most about. Those are Alfred, Selina, and Gordan. the Results: Selina dead, Gordan being sent to prison for the rest of his life, Alfred forced to watch the Wayne legacy being sold off.
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I think it’s the story is Bruce struggling with his legacy since Dick’s death being lost in the darkness, before finding what batman was supposed to be for Gotham again, a light in the darkness. And yes this version of Batman I feel has lost bruce Wayne and has become what he was Jason todds death without a Tim Drake to remind him what he is meant to be. so yes I feel this batman needed to change his ways back to the more optimistic batman he was before the loss of Dick.
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Redemption is possible and people can change for the better.
Side note: I want to know how Bruce makes things up with Selina. we do not get to see that part. 
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I think they kept the faith by just keeping on doing what they always do and not giving up when the times got tough. I think Gotham’s people pushed on by sticking together and as long as they were together at the end of the day that was enough. 
Bermejo’s portrayal of Joker as the third spirit did make sense as the ghost of future yet to come since that spirit is usually more terrifying and the Joker can be quite terrifying. 
That also is a brilliant title patent pending Jitsu!
I felt that it was pretty accurate for Gotham’s future. Both sides being passionate for their leaders, and doing whatever they thought their leader would do with one seeking chaos and the other seeking justice at any cost. 
As long as Batman doesn’t cross the line as Commissioner Gordon mentioned then it will work out well for the future. As well as Batman making sure that no one else goes around in hockey pads trying to do what only Batman can do. 
I think Batman’s struggle motivates him to continue to do good in Gotham goes back to his mission in not letting what happened to him and his parents in Crime Alley happen to anyone else. I believe as long as Batman does not cross the line, then he does not have to change his ways in order to preserve his legacy. 
I think that it’s nice that Bob and his son get to enjoy a quiet Christmas dinner together after the tumult and intrusion of the Joker into their lives. 
After all that happened in Batman Noël I think this was a phenomenal story to be read over and over again. 
I think the moral of the story is to not cross the line when it comes to a tough decision to do the right thing in a tough situation, and not to lose sight of what you are fighting for at the end of the day. Also, not to come to conclusions too quickly when someone is faced with a hard decision out of desperation.
Thank you again Jitsu as it has been a lot of fun diving back into discussions with the DC Book Club Tally-Ho! again. 
Happy New Year everyone! 
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Hello @Jitsu,
I’ve finally finish reading Batman: Noel, it was a really a good story, anyway here’s the answer to the final questions…
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If their Faith in God help them get through tough time, they know they’ll be ok. If the community for Gotham wants a better city, they’re going to have to work hard for it, like hiring a better police Officer, see something wrong that looke like a crime, contact the police.
Batman is no Superman, even he needs help fighting crimes. -
I honestly didn’t see that coming! The was a good choice, even if I was hoping for Phantasm.
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That’s a really a tough question, kind of reminded me of the episode from Batman The Animated Series ‘Trial’ where a D.A. wanted to put Batman on trial, believing he cause these Criminals. Which was only half true.
In my opinion, the city would be alot worst without Batman. -
I don’t expect him to be a Adam West Batman overnight, he could try to set a goal to be a better person towards the innocent but tough on criminal, everybody is innocent til he or she is proven guilty.
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That was a good ending, I was suprise on who the Narrator was. It’s a good story with a good message.
That’s it for today, looking forward to the new year, Happy New Year @Jitsu! See you next year!
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Finished reading this last week but kept forgetting to come back and do the questions 
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1.1. I think the holidays in Gotham are a mix a both. They feel hopeful and cheerful. But women fear of what villain is planning some holiday shenanigan.
1.2. Always willing to believe as I believe anything is possible.
1.3. Option number two. Just trying to support his kid in a crime ridden town.
1.4. I feel fear is always a part of the season. Wether a kids fear of if they were naughty or a parent if they can’t get that one gift or just fear it may go wrong at some point but that just makes it even better when it goes right.
1.5. Yes. It was very creative and liked it a lot. Even making Bats Scrooge was perfect.
2.1 I think he’s let the job get to him. His lost his hope that Robin brought and now he only thinks of that darkness that’s always with him. Hence why I personally believe Batman needs the Bat Family to keep him form diving head first into that loneliness and darkness in him.
2.2. Probably a mix of all. Guilt his illness lack of sleep all just got him seeing things.
2.3. I think it’s a narration of the story thing. To make it like the Christmas Carol. Or maybe and indication the rooftops are more of his home or a bed for him and Catwoman.
2.4. Depends on which route they’re going for. Is it a killer from the mob, joker, or just a guy trying to get money. In the I don’t know enough to determine that but he was willing to kill people so maybe not.
2.5. Yes. Much like the interpretations I’ve scene that ghost is bright and so different from Scrooges life and world. That’s Supes to Bats. And he fills him with the hope of the world as well.
3.1. Like many hope. Believe in the better or the Bat. Sticking as a community or just enjoying those small moments of peace when they can.
3.2. Yes his is great for it. I was wondering who it would be but joker fit great. And no words but laughter fit very well as well.
3.3. Everything has that chance of doing more harm than good. Wether it’s instant or in a distant future it could happen. But can’t focus on those “if’s” and just try to do you best to make sure it ends up doing good. And what bats saw was what could happen if he wasn’t his best which is what he try’s to be at the end.
3.4. I think this struggle was a slap in the face he needed. He’s the only one that can change himself but others can inspire and push you to making that decision and in the end his did. He crawled out of the grave both figuratively and literally. People are always changing and legacies with them. So I would he didn’t need to change to preserve it but to make sure his legacy was something he’d be proud of.
3.5. I think this was an awesome™
book that I would love to see adapted as an animated movie at some point. It was great with twists and turns. The art with it only enhanced it. As for the moral I’d say like many carols is that people can change but in the only that person is the one who can flip that switch. Others can help but if the don’t flip no change will come.
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Might be cool
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Welcome to the community @silverback919.69787! It’s a pleasure to have you here
Feel free to let us know if you need any assistance with anything!
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