Well, I wouldn’t expect Dick to just fight Bane straight on. Dick is more agile and mobile than Bruce. His fighting style is acrobatic and less predictable than most. He has won against physically stronger foes and other metas.
Aside from all that, why assume this fight has to be a 1v1 brawl Street Fighter style? A lot could change in addition to Dick donning the mantle.
Anyway, as posted elsewhere we can agree to disagree on the chance of a “better” outcome.
I was talking in regards to the Knightfall storyline where it was a one on one situation against Bane. Sorry, if that wasn’t clear , @c02goddess.1. Yes, Dick is more agile than Bruce. He’s even joked about that with him in the comics 
.
But the Bane who was around in 1992 was a super jacked up 'roided out monster who was also a master strategist. He planned his attack while he was in prison in Santa Prisca for years! He had newspaper clippings lining the walls of his prison cell about Batman and Bruce Wayne every time they mentioned him in the newspapers. He knew all about Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, and Jean Paul Valley long before coming to Gotham.
That’s why when Bane first arrived in Gotham he had three henchmen with him - Bird, Trogg, and Zombie. One for each member of Bruce Wayne’s extended family because Bane wanted to reserve himself exclusively for Batman. Now Bane did involve himself now and again. But not against the Bat family.
He got involved with the Arkham villains until it was time for him to break Bruce’s back. So, yeah, Dick is more agile than Bruce but Bane was prepared for Dick, just like he was Bruce, and that’s
something that Dick wouldn’t have been prepared for and he would’ve wound up just like Bruce if he attempted to go up against Bane, as he was during Knightfall, alone. Because Bird, Trogg, and Zombie would’ve taken out any of Dick’s support group leaving him to go up against Bane alone and he would’ve been broken too.
Remember there’s no Oracle or Batgirl in 1992. All there was was Tim Drake (who was recovering from a broken arm), Jean Paul Valley, Alfred (who was tending to Bruce after his injury), and a broken Bruce Wayne. No Titans anywhere in sight. That’s why I say that he would’ve been broken and then Gotham would’ve lost two of her heroes instead of one.
If you just meant one single fight, then we are talking about slightly different scenarios because it sounds like that’s assuming nothing changed except Dick being in the cowl. I’m saying that changes such as this can have larger ripples that impact people and events, which can be unpredictable.
Oracle debuted in the late 1980s, and Wally West was the Flash in the 90s, so both could have been available. Bruce himself may have taken different actions. Dick may have taken different actions than what actually happened in Knightfall. The Court of Owls could have stepped in to control the situation and get their Gray Son of Gotham! 
Using different characters can present different story opportunities.
Could DC have killed Dick here? In the surrounding decade, they killed Jason and shot Babs, broke Bruce, killed Clark, killed Ollie, killed Barry, had Hal go all Paralax, etc. They tried to kill Dick himself in later events. It’s possible he’d have joined the list of casualties for the era. However, Dick survived (even through the decision to shoot him in the head and not be himself for 2 freaking years) and thrived when others hadn’t, and even then all those other heroes bounced back eventually.
If DC wanted to promote Dick/Nightwing, this story could have been his new gauntlet. They decided to do something else creatively first, then let Dick shine later. At the end of the day, I’m fine with that; however, I’m still with @DC89 on this one.
Oh I think calling him psychotic or psychopathic is not the worst thing you could call him.
The Other History of The DC Universe #3
#Facts^^^
I’m not looking for you to pick my side here. I’m just trying to get you to see that Jean Paul Valley was really the only choice Bruce Wayne had to go with for a replacement for him while he was injured. You make good points. I just learned that Oracle was around but she was with the Suicide Squad.
So she would’ve been busy during Knightfall, now wouldn’t she? As for Wally West in 1992, wasn’t he busy fighting a disguised Eobard Thawne wearing the face of Barry Allen in the Return of Barry Allen storyline? And wasn’t Barbara Gordon mad at Bruce Wayne at this time in 1992 because of what the Joker did to her? I believe she was otherwise she would’ve never have wound up with the Suicide Suad ( the book was not a big seller in the late-'80s to early-'90s and that’s probably why they brought Barbara Gordon in - to boost sales. There was no Harley Quinn on the Suicide Squad yet. I liked the comic and I still do. I enjoy it just as much today as I did as a kid. It doesn’t come off as “dated” which is surprising because it was considered an espionage comic back then. Now I did read the earlier issues of Suicide Squads '80s run. The ones that I could find in graphic novel format and Oracle wasn’t in those ones. She probably comes in in the back half of the series and I will learn that when I finish it on DCUI. Bronze Tiger is awesome 
! He’s my favorite member of the Suicide Squad from the 80s.).
Also, I was just browsing Batman #500 on DCUI, the last part of Knightfall, and guess who’s in it? Nightwing . And guess what? He’s having a conversation with Tim Drake.
What about you say? About Bruce choosing Jean Paul Valley as his successor. And here’s a few direct quotes from the issue:
Nightwing to Tim Drake outside Wayne Manor from Batman #500: He asked someone to fill in for him".
Tim Drake replies back to Nightwing in front of Wayne Manor from Batman #500: "Jean Paul Valley --formerly known as Azrael ".
Nightwing to Tim Drake from Batman #500: "And he didn't ask me"?
Tim Drake to Nightwing from Batman #500: “Would you have accepted”?
Nightwing replies back to Tim Drake in Batman #500: "If he needed me" (emphasis on the word needed).
Then Tim Drake asks Nightwing from Batman #500: "All right -- but would you have wanted to accept"(emphasis on the word wanted)?
Then Nightwing answered back to Tim Drake outside of Wayne Manor still from Batman #500: “No”
To which Tim replies back back: “And he knew that, Nightwing. You’ve become you’re own man–beyond his shadow”.
Right there in Batman #500, the words come right from Nightwing’s mouth. “No”. He didn’t want it. Which is what I said in my very first response to @DC89.
Dick Grayson did not want to be Batman and we found that out in the Prodigal story. So, once again, the only choice Bruce had for a successor was Jean Paul Valley and that was my original point. You don’t believe me go read Batman #500 for yourself . As for the Court of Owls, they didn’t exist in 1992.
You’re confusing different eras. I wish they did because they’re one of my favorite Bat villains today! Unfortunately, in 1992, we didn’t have Scott Snyder as a writer back then because he was in his teens and still in school. Scott Snyder created the Court of Owls in 2011 and retconned them into Batman’s history.
That story came out in 2011, nearly 20 years after Knightfall happened. The writers of Knightfall were Doug Moench, Chuck Dixon, Jo Duffy, and Alan Grant. So the Court of Owls wouldn’t’ve interceded on Dick’s behalf because they didn’t exist yet. And I didn’t say that DC would kill Dick.
They didn’t kill Bruce. They broke him, which is different from him dying. He did die two times, though, in the past 15 years. Bruce died during Batman: RIP and he died during Batman: Endgame which was written by Scott Snyder. I never said they would’ve killed Dick.
I said he would’ve been broken like Bruce because Bane was prepared for him. Bane was prepared for Jean Paul Valley. He beat him down too at first and nearly broke him but Bane stopped at just pummeling him because Jean Paul fell into a reflecting pool in a mall. Then Jean Paul Valley went off and created the Bat Armor which is how he was finally able to beat Bane because he was able to get one of the razor sharp Batarangs that he created behind Bane and sever his Venom line.
I’m not telling anyone to pick sides, @c02goddess.16092. All I’m saying is that, one, Dick Grayson didn’t want to be Batman and that’s why Bruce chose Jean Paul over Dick. So @DC89 saying that Bruce should just go get Dick to be his replacement and that Dick could handle it doesn’t make sense because Dick wanted nothing to do with being Batman back in 1992. And, two, that if Dick had gone up against Bane, he would’ve been broken like Bruce was because he didn’t have Azrael’s assassins’ training or the voice of St.Dumas in his head, which was how Jean Paul was finally able to get over on Bane. Thanks in large part to St.Dumas and the visions he had of him, Azrael was able to come up with the idea for the Bat Armor and that armor gave Azrael the edge he needed to be able to beat Bane.
I’m not trying to get anyone to pick sides. Sorry 
if you feel that way. I’m just trying to point out that Bruce had no choice back then, in 1992, when it came to choosing Jean Paul as his successor, which @DC89 made it seem with her comment that Bruce did because he could rely on Dick back then during Knightfall and he really couldn’t since Dick wanted to be his own man with his own legacy and not just his father’s. Essentially what it comes down to is the writers didn’t want to use Dick Grayson as Bruce’s replacement and that’s probably because Marv Wolfman was still using him in Titans.
But, even if they did use him before Jean Paul Valley, we would’ve just got Prodigal in the beginning before KnghtQuest and the fight that gave us that beautiful moment between Dick and a returning Bruce Wayne in the Batcave wouldn’t have happened because then the Knightfall story would’ve ended with Knightsend instead of Prodigal and that would’ve been a shame.This is my last comment on this post because I think I’ve proven my point. Just go read Batman #500 on DCUI and see for yourself .
(While this is all genuinely interesting, and I’m glad the thread inspired thought beyond the initial, “what would you say”, you might consider starting a new thread to discuss it further.)
My personal vote is that Alfred should have taken over. Harold as Robin. The dynamic dou we deserved, just not the one we needed.
So was I. I have every single issue of it in NM to this day. The storyline actually began in late February/early March 1993.
Not sayng he’d win a battle of blows but he could outsmart Bane, which is all it really takes to beat him as I laid out in my previous post.
So, you’re saying that they spent all that time building Bane up to let an unknown and unpopular character like Jean Paul Valley come in and beat him then? 'Cuz that’s what happened.
Turn this logic around and you have the accurate idea of why both characters were created.
Never said anything about disliking Jean Paul or Azrael.
Batman had no plan for rekoJ ehT, Penguin, Harley, Nygma, Selina and so on. He reacted, learned their traits, and then went on to defeat them all. There’s no such thing as “planning” for the unknown. One can only hope that they’re adequately prepared to react properly in the moment.
Because at the time (and now) J’onn is a more established character than Jean Paul Valley and readers will expect to see the challenges for J’onn at a higher level within the story.
The New Frontier, DCEU February 2008
Not a factor. Lucious runs the Wayne Enterprises show regardless of his feelings about Bruce.
Alfred, Tim, Harold, and Gordon were all there by B-Man’s side for the events that unfolded during Knightfall.
That mask didn’t fool Gordon and def wouldn’t fool rekoJ ehT, R’as, Talia, and many of the rest of B-Man’s baddie gallery.
Look, with the arrival of a new Sword Of Azrael series now on the shelves of LCS’s across the country it would seem that (I haven’t read it yet) Jean Paul may be getting a new lease on his character life, and I applaud it. He was treated terribly during the Knightquest series and he def deserves a second bite at the apple. However, he was a poor choice to fill in as B-Man during the events of the story taking place thirty years ago- even B-Man himself acknowledges that. Frankly, the Prodigal storyline strikes me as one of the possible scripts for Knightquest that may have been vetoed by then Editor in Chief Denny O’Neil. When you look at how the Prodigal flows it reads as a very compelling storyline for Dick to experience while taking on Bane and Jean Paul- lots of existential and self-realization undertones flowing in that read.
M’kay, so I’ve had my say here on the matter and am not going to pursue this subject any further. Thx for the debate! 
Well, Alfred posed as Batman on the old TV show…
Luke Fox Batwing. In a short matter of words:
You carry the torchlight of your family name and became a champion of Gotham.
Luke Fox…You are a inspiration to strive for better things.
Oh wow… I could list a million things for a hundred different charactes… but I would have to say two things…
And to Booster Gold… do you think I could borrow just a Tenth of a percent of your confidence… to help me get over my depression, anxiety, and self-hatred?
This is going to be my last reply, so other scenarios can get a chance to share the limelight.
I’m not saying Dick wants to be Batman. He doesn’t. Not now, not then, not even when he donned the cowl.
I’m not confusing eras. I was trying to lighten the discussion with some in universe winks, since the agree to disagree sentiment didn’t seem to stick.
My point was that changing who Batman picked could have changed a lot of things in universe. The Court of Owls was just one example. Mentioning that other characters could respond differently or get involved at all was just another example of how one change could result in other changes.
Crossing that in universe boundary, use of another character could have opened different story potentials. Story arcs across comic books often don’t line up perfectly with in universe events, so whatever another character is doing that month/arc doesn’t necessarily matter - the hypothetical support could have been given the month/arc before or after - if the creative teams wanted to work out an appearance.
All of that said, in universe I think Dick was another option, while out of universe I’m happy with Dixon’s run on Nightwing (and a lot of Bat books). As such, perhaps Batman could have offered the cowl to Dick, Dick could have turned it down, then Azrael could have been brought in. Events could mostly unfold the same for Azrael; however, Dick actually being offered the chance could have still had interesting impacts on the characters involved and their future interactions.
Ok, I would tell Mr. Terrific that his hero mask adhesive needs to be upgraded, pronto! Nightwing’s brand new domino (that was kindly provided!) has popped off one too many times. Perhaps acrobats sweat more than speedsters? 
I love @c02goddess.16092 and @JohnAAustin79 posts. Their knowledge of and about Dick Grayson is inspiring!
Don’t think I forgot about you @DC89. I’m following where this started
Kelex roll 1d6
Yes, I agree , @c02goddess.16092. Dick could’ve been brought in first and it might’ve been cool to see his first encounter with Jean Paul Valley so close to when Bruce was injured. Tensions could’ve flared up between them. As it stands, we never got that confrontation though because Bruce took down Jean Paul Valley and Nightwing was over in Europe looking for Alfred to bring him home.
I agree with you also about Chuck Dixon’s Nightwing series. I enjoyed it immensely and I collected it while it was being published back in the '90s. I loved the idea of Dick Grayson becoming a police officer. I thought that was pretty cool.
Turning Blockbuster into DC’s Kingpin was another great idea I loved too because that character was never viewed as too much of a threat until Chuck Dixon decided to revamp him and make him into a major crime lord. That Nightwing series had so much going for it. Truly one of my favorite runs for Nightwing 
.!
Thank you, @Samsonkillingtime, for the nice post ! I know a lot about Dick Grayson because I’ve been reading Batman since I was 5 years old all the way back in the '80s . Logically, if you love Batman, then you’ve gotta love his family as well. My love for Dick Grayson started when he had his Disco Nightwing costume with the flared collar back in the '80s.
That’s probably my favorite Nightwing costume because it was his first one and it’s the only one that hasn’t been brought back on a regular basis. I think he did wear it just a few years ago when he didn’t have any other costumes available and Barbara Gordon made a joke to him about how dated the costume looked . I think that was right before he got shot in the head by KGBeast. I do love Nightwing and Batgirl (Barbara Gordon) a lot. I love seeing them together.
But then I also love seeing Dick with Koriand’r (Starfire) too. I also love seeing Dick Grayson and Donna Troy together as well . Donna Troy’s another one of my favorite DC characters . Well, thank you again for your compliment, @Samsonkillingtime .
Wait is Mr. Terrific a speedster now?! Is this fr?!
