DC Movie Hot Takes

@awk1964.87979

Did anybody think the Pattinson Batman movie unnecessarily dark? And I don’t mean in tone, I mean just flat-out: isn’t it ever daytime here? Or, does it ever stop raining?

No, after seeing it, I couldn’t imagine it being any other way.

And given Matt Reeves’ influences for the movie…

He set about a ton of reading and was blown away by the comic Batman: Year One, the 1987 four-issue run by writer Frank Miller and artist David Mazzucchelli, that showed a young and in-turmoil Bruce Wayne figuring out how to be a be a vigilante. The tone is detective noir, the violence is street-level and nasty, and you will search in vain for a feat of superhero derring-do or a groaning Mr Freeze “Allow-me-to-break-the-ice”-style pun. Calling Batman: Year One realistic would be a stretch. But it is somewhere near as realistic as a comic book about a mentally dubious loner who puts on a disguise and begins hunting criminals come night. This proto-Batman underestimates his opponents, gets shot by the police, and his costume doesn’t fit. (It’s great, and it happens to be my favourite comic book.) Other influences on Reeves included New Hollywood classics from the 1970s: The French Connection, Chinatown and Taxi Driver. Also, Kurt Cobain.

“Early on, when I was writing, I started listening to Nirvana, and there was something about [Nevermind song] ‘Something in the Way’, which is in the first trailer, which is part of the voice of that character. When I considered, ‘How do you do Bruce Wayne in a way that hasn’t been seen before?’ I started thinking, ‘What if some tragedy happened [ie: Wayne sees his parents murdered] and this guy becomes so reclusive, we don’t know what he’s doing? Is this guy some kind of wayward, reckless, drug addict?’ And the truth is that he is a kind of drug addict. His drug is his addiction to this drive for revenge. He’s like a Batman Kurt Cobain.”

The French Connection, Chinatown, Taxi Driver, and Kurt Cobain.

Yeah, it makes perfect sense why the movie was the way it was.

Funny, I never even thought about the Kurt Cobain “influence.” But now that I think about it, Robert Pattinson’s Bruce Wayne and Batman is a little Kurt Cobain-ish.

Anyway, seemingly always nighttime and seemingly always raining fits this take on Batman to a tee. And this was a Bruce Wayne who doesn’t really go anywhere, and people almost never see him for I guess weeks or months on end. So there was no real need for any daytime scenes – and I’m trying to think: the funeral scene and the ending may have been the only daytime scenes.

The almost always raining I thought was really cool. No one has ever done that before in a Batman movie, so that set The Batman apart too. And of course rain and Batman go great together.

I hope it’s almost always raining in the HBO Max Penguin show too.

I have a difficult time seeing the toilet when I pee. The Batman was so hard to see, it bordered on offensive for the visually impaired. :smirk:

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The sun is always blocked here.

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Yeah, but to be fair darkness is pretty typical for Batman stuffs. Exciting visuals, iconography, and action typically balance that (for me at least). I found The Batman lacking in all the above.

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But there were times where it seemed this one was excessively dark. I’m not particularly vision impaired, and there were times in the theater where I was kind of going: “What’s happening?”

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Agreed. Batman Forever was dark, but the cinematography (Stephen Goldblatt Oscar nominated for his work on the movie) is an example of how to make dark something still visually appealing. I just couldn’t see half of The Batman.

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But but but it was grounded and realistic… and… Bruuuuuuuce Waaaaaayne!

What a God awful movie…

Ok I’m done being snarky for the day.

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I agree with you. This new stuff isn’t an escape anymore. It’s “real” and edgy. I’m getting old, but sometimes Batman needs a jet shaped like a bat. He dresses like a bat. Why would it be less realistic if his “toys” are bat themed?

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I don’t know what that means

What’s missing for you?

I did, it is literally too dark to see in some places minus where it is supposed to be like that.

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Good question. Had to stop & think for a second. The best answer I can give is a presence, charisma. Keaton had it, Affleck had it, & Kevin Conroy had it more than all of ‘em combined.

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@awk1964.87979

But there were times where it seemed this one was excessively dark. I’m not particularly vision impaired, and there were times in the theater where I was kind of going: “What’s happening?”

Yeah, everything about this movie from day one looked like it was going to be dark – literally speaking.

Like… every single thing.

From Matt Reeves posting a video of the suit. Every image that Warner Bros. released.

The first teaser…

Everything about this movie was saying that it was going to be dark – darker than any other Batman movie. Figuratively and literally.

I thought it was literally a dark movie too.

But immediately it was apparent to me that this was obviously the style that Matt Reeves wanted to go with in order to set his movie apart from the others. It was an artistic choice, at risk of stating the obvious – that and the rain (although shooting Gotham City in Glasgow, Scotland may have played a part in that too).

It was like “The Long Night” Games of Thrones episode. It’s like, “Yeah, it was a really dark episode, literally. It was called the “The Long Night,” and it was dark… like it is at night.” :smiling_face:

No, they of course came out and said that, yeah, it was intentionally made to look the way it did.

I thought that episode was literally dark too. But I just assumed it was intentional, and it turned out that it was. And I was glad that they chose to do it that way, it made it different… in a good way.

The probably should have called The Batman “The Dark Knight,” but I guess that name was already taken. :smiling_face:

The upcoming Batgirl HBO Max movie (theatrical movie, or whatever they ultimately decide) doesn’t look like it’s going to be dark at all. Figuratively or literally.

So for people who don’t like “dark” Batman, figuratively or literally, then Batgirl should fit the bill.

And it looks fine to me – in fact, I absolutely love the costume for what it looks like they’re going for. But of course there were people already “hatin’” on that too, so yeah, what can you do… :smiling_face:

You have one group that doesn’t like one thing, and another who doesn’t like the other.

Possibly, I wouldn’t know, never been there myself

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@Sean-Malloy

Yeah, that was just pure speculation on my part.

And most of Gotham City was shot in Liverpool, I guess. In England. And of course Matt Reeves said he chose that location for the architecture.

Saying that, on Gotham City and shooting in Liverpool…

“It’s just as important as any of the Rogues Gallery, it’s sort of like the nature of this place is and the history of it is critically important to our story.”

“One of thing I really wanted to do because it is the center of this story, especially the history of corruption in the city, was I wanted to present it in a way that was really fleshed out.”

“I wanted it to feel like an American city you’d never been to.”

And then of course CG was added to complete the look he wanted. So dark, gloomy and rainy.

I see that Robert Pattinson had said this, about this take on Batman:

"Right from the beginning, there’s a desperation to it. He’s really working out this rage. All the fights seem very personal. He wants to inflict his kind of justice. He’s just compelled to do it. There is no other option.

He doesn’t have as much control over his personality, like the delineation between when he’s Batman and when he’s Bruce is not so clear and other kinds of iterations of it where he really knows what he’s doing when he’s putting on the cowl. And I kind of really like this idea of it’s a little bit out of control. He hasn’t completely defined what Batman is. I mean, he gets lost in it whenever he’s putting on [Batman] every night. He’s not sleeping and he’s becoming this quite sort of odd creature."

Yep, that about covers it.

I remember the first synopsis for The Batman was…

The Batman is an edgy, action-packed thriller that depicts Batman in his early years, struggling to balance rage with righteousness as he investigates a disturbing mystery that has terrorized Gotham.

Robert Pattinson delivers a raw, intense portrayal of Batman as a disillusioned, desperate vigilante awakened by the realization that the anger consuming him makes him no better than the ruthless serial killer he’s hunting.

Yeah, really dark and rainy is a pretty good way to portray that. It’s the mood of the main character. And I’m not sure what other way you could have done it, considering what the movie was going to be about.

Switching gears – a hot take on the upcoming Batgirl movie:

Since Michael Keaton is going to be in it, I’m assuming Batgirl is going to take place in the Tim Burton 1989 Batman world?

True, J.K. Simmons is going to play Commissioner Gordon. But looking at pictures of him and the actor who played Commissioner Gordon in the Tim Burton movies, and you can kind of fudge it a little and say that they’re the same person. Just say that he’s older (because he would be if Barbara is an adult now), and that he’s lost a little bit of weight.

Because surely they’re not going to get too crazy with the Multiverse and make the Michael Keaton Batman be from another Earth in her movie. Yes, they’re doing it in The Flash movie, but that’s what that movie is going to be about – and I’m assuming that the Flash will travel to the Michael Keaton Earth (or something like that… or something)? :smiling_face:

And I can’t imagine that they would say that this Batgirl is part of the Zack Snyder movies, because that costume doesn’t look like it would really fit in with what Zack Snyder was doing – his costumes were “harder,” and the colors were a bit more subdued.

If they said that she was part of the Tim Burton Batman world I would believe that quicker than I would her being part of the Zack Snyder stuff. Because her costume is “bright and colorful” like the Tim Burton Batman’s was, with his bright yellow oval.

And her shiny suit and shiny purple cape with the yellow lining would fit in with the “surreal” Tim Burton Batman world. Because the Jack Nicholson Joker was pretty colorful with his shiny shirts. :smiling_face:

Or who knows what that they’re doing…

Between a Joker musical and a possible Black Superman who knows what they’re doing. :smiling_face:

The Schumacher movies were a continuation of Burton’s so Batgirl in Burton might be Barbara Wilson

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@Sean-Malloy

Oh, they counted those movies?

Since I ignored them and didn’t count them (didn’t consider them a continuation of Tim Burton’s movies) I just assumed Warner Bros. didn’t either. :smiling_face:

I guess that shows how much I remember about them, because I really don’t have any idea what they were about. I just chalked them up as bad stuff from the 90s. :smiling_face:

And I had to look it up, because I had completely forgotten about the Alicia Silverstone Barbara Wilson character.

(Speaking of Alicia Silverstone: Clueless I liked, because I liked Stacey Dash before she became a right-wing nut and Trump supporter and whatever.)

Anyway, now it suddenly hurts my head too much thinking about what they’re going to do with this Batgirl movie. :smiling_face:

Michael Keaton being in The Flash movie I can understand. Why he’s going to be in Batgirl too I don’t totally get, but whatever. We’ll see what happens when it happens.

Thank god Warner Bros. will continue to make stand-alone stuff like the Joker and The Batman, and the potential Black Superman. It’ll give me something to watch.

Because trying to salvage and bridge a transition from the Zack Snyder movies (or whatever they’re doing), and brining back Michael Keaton for whatever reason, it’s like… "Guys, just stop. Surely there’s a better idea than this… " :smiling_face:

Warner Bros. does need a hopeful Superman movie.

I of course say do the Black one and make that one hopeful, but they’ll do what they wanna do – because it seems like JJ Abrams is a little bit on the outs with the new boss David Zaslav (they already cancelled his HBO sci-fi show), so none of his other stuff may get made either.

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What makes you think she wasn’t always right-wing?

“Batman Forever” references “Batman Returns” with a psychiatrist saying to Batman “Or do I need skintight vynal and a whip”

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In that movie, Bruce also says he’s never been in love before, which would seem to go against what we saw from not only Selina but also Vicki. I’m sure they meant to reference Returns w/ that line, but it could also be seen as confirmation that a different version of Selina exists/existed in the Schumacherverse. And I think the Batman '89 comic has made it even more clear that Forever/B&R exist in a sort of adjacent but still different world from the previous 2 movies

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@Sean-Malloy

What makes you think she wasn’t always right-wing?

I suppose it’s possible that’s she’s always been that way.

I believe now she says that she regrets some of the things she said, and that she was angry and this and that…

Cynical me says that it was either an act then, or it’s an act now. Or she could be sincere. It doesn’t really matter either way.

To the Bat-stuff…

So the post-Keaton Batman movies have a slight reference here and there… or something like that. Okay. Fair enough.

Interesting that, at $70 million dollars, the Batgirl movie cost more to make than the Joker, and visually the Joker looked great for what it was trying to pull off.

Of course, unlike the Joker Batgirl is going to be fun…

‘With Batgirl, we hope to take the audience on a fun ride and see a different side of Gotham,” said Burr. “Christina’s script is crackling with spirit. Adil and Bilall have an excited and joyous energy, which is infectious, making them the perfect filmmakers for this Batproject. And I’m just psyched I get to be part of the DC universe, which is super cool.”

And I guess Batgirl was largely shot in Glasgow, Scotland. I was thinking that it was The Batman that was largely shot there. But no, that was mostly in Liverpool with some shots in Glasgow.

Anyway, a fun, live-action Bat-thing.

Hot take:

I wished that Batgirl was set during the 60s like Pennyworth – I love Pennyworth. And that the Bruce Wayne just happened to look like Michael Keaton. That would have been perfect.

Because then it would have been it’s own thing, and it wouldn’t have been associated with the Batman movie that I don’t like.

But no, it looks to be set during the modern day. And so that means a 70 year-old Michael Keaton, dressed in the 1989 Batman costume, that I thought looked ridiculous in 1989.

Why do they do this to me? To me!!! Why?! :smiling_face:

Ah well, I’m sure I’ll like the HBO Max John Constantine show, if Ṣọpẹ́ Dìrísù is cast as the lead.

(That was rather random.) :smiling_face:

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I just stopped by for a sec. I was compelled to be here. This only occurs when someone is talking about Michelle Pfeiffer’s vinyl Catwoman costume.

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I guess the main thing I didn’t care for with the literal darkness of Reeves’ Batman was the fact that sometimes it was really hard to figure out what was going on. I liked the movie otherwise. I need to watch it a couple more times to really understand it, though, because sitting here a month afterward, I don’t remember a lot about it.

And as far as Batgirl being “lighter…” She originally was created at a time when comics were a lot lighter in tone. I’m sure (hope, anyway) they won’t give her the '66 treatment, but if they do, let’s also hope they approach it right…

And that the actor they might cast as Joker will shave his mustache…

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