DC Films - Where Do We Go From Here?

General Discussion Movies & TV
61

@AlexanderKnox

Well, the people who are paying for the movie to get made are saying it’s a reboot.

“First of all, we don’t call it Suicide Squad 2 ‘cause it’s a total reboot, so it’s The Suicide Squad and I think people should be extremely excited about it. It’s everything you would hope from a James Gunn script and I think that says a lot and that promises a lot and I know that we will deliver a lot.”

So if that’s what they’re saying, then so be it.

Of course, I had no interest in seeing the first one, so I guess it really makes no difference to me. [insert smiley face]

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Considering that they’ve since backpedaled and developed Idris Elba into his own character in case Will Smith chooses to return, I’d say that the producer is overstating the case…or using a buzzword without actually comprehending what it means.

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@AlexanderKnox

What? (Ha!)

No, I believe the producer knows precisely what he’s saying.

And it’s very obvious that Warners Bros. no longer wants to have anything to do with the David Ayers Suicide Squad.

We won’t be developing David Ayer’s cut.

And pretty much anything pre-2018, before Walter Hamada, Warner Bros. wants nothing to do with.

And it started before Walter Hamada became President of DC Films.

They’re in the midst of a fight to convince the public that’s the case. For years, they struggled at the multiplex while their blood rival, Marvel, soared. Starting in 2008, Marvel pioneered a Hollywood-buzz concept known as the cinematic universe: a narrative enterprise in which a bunch of individual films are said to exist in the same world, with characters crossing over and lots of buildup to megamovies where the whole gang gets together. Disney-owned Marvel has captured billions of eyes and dollars by running that operation with an iron fist: Its movies are all tightly linked and its brand image is held in a vise grip.

Seeing the success of that model, Warner launched its own shared filmic cosmology with 2013’s Man of Steel, which did well at the box office but received criticism for its depiction of a brooding Superman who murders someone at the end of the story. Then came 2016’s grim, gritty, and costly Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, which drew a harsh critical response and, with a global gross of $873 million, fell far short of Marvel’s $1.153 billion-earner that year, Captain America: Civil War. Just a few months later, Suicide Squad earned $745 million — a hefty chunk of change — but was savaged by critics, leaving it with a 25 percent critical aggregate on Rotten Tomatoes. Those speed bumps would be bad enough, but the fact that these DC movies were all part of one interlinked super-story made the situation all the more problematic: How can you have a successful universe if its individual galaxies aren’t doing so hot?

None of that seems to worry Nelson, and that’s partly because DC and Warner have adopted a new strategy: Let’s rethink that whole universe thing. They’re not giving up on the idea of continuity, but they want to deemphasize the idea that all of these flicks are occupying the same space. “Our intention, certainly, moving forward is using the continuity to help make sure nothing is diverging in a way that doesn’t make sense, but there’s no insistence upon an overall story line or interconnectivity in that universe,” says Nelson, drawing nods from the top brass around her.

This new approach already has a test case, and, by any measure, it was a successful one: Wonder Woman outearned every other movie this summer while scoring a 92 percent on Rotten Tomatoes — higher than nearly every Marvel movie…

It’s all being rebooted.

There’s new people in charge now and they’re not continuing any of the old stuff – old as in 2017. [insert smiley face]

Isn’t this clear to everyone?

64

Umm…

Like I said, Batman Forever. Soft reboot.

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Umm…

So someone who’s a producer on the movie says it’s a total reboot, and knows what the movie is actually about.

But you say that person is wrong?

Wouldn’t it be best to just say that in your opinion it’s a soft reboot?

And I’ll of course go with the producer who says it’s a total reboot and we can leave it there because this has gotten really, really stupid.

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When the writer/director of the movie says in an October 2020 interview, “It does not contradict the first movie,” I take that under more consideration than a March 2019 interview with a producer who is trying to distance the film from its predecessor’s bad press.

And the Hamada Era hasn’t done much to throw out continuity. Birds of Prey is a spin-off of Suicide Squad that shares continuity with that film. Wonder Woman 1984 establishes itself as a story set between the first Wonder Woman film and Batman v Superman (being very careful to retain Diana’s century-long low profile as established in BvS). There’s no reason to expect a hard reboot from Gunn, especially when he says, “They don’t contradict.”

In fact, the Empire article even says as much:

The Suicide Squad – a not-quite-sequel, not-quite-reboot from Guardians Of The Galaxy filmmaker James Gunn.

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@AlexanderKnox

Yes, James Gunn said…

“Um, it’s its own thing,” Gunn said. “It does not contradict the first movie, I don’t think. It might in some small ways… I don’t know.”

He said that it’s its own thing. Not a sequel, not a soft reboot, it’s own thing.

And the producer says it’s a total reboot. And that to me lines up with “Um, it’s its own thing.”

And of course the producer wants to distance this movie from the other one, all of Warner Bros. does.

And Joel Kinnaman said:

Kinnaman shared that Gunn’s “completely different approach” gave the actor a chance to find new ways to portray the Special Forces officer and Suicide Squad leader Rick Flag.

“And so we just kind of took it as an opportunity to start with a blank slate,” the actor said. “So, you know, me and James, we just kind of started over with the character. And, he became, I think, he became a slightly sillier version, slightly less jaded. Maybe a little bit more naive. And, and a lot funnier version of the character. Yeah, it’s just the movie it is.”

And of course there’s Joel Kinnaman quotes saying other things too.

“With James Gunn, it’s a whole new universe. It’s a completely different thing,” Kinnaman explained. “We kinda all just started with a blank slate…It doesn’t feel like we’re doing a sequel in any way. It’s a strange kinda middle ground of a reboot. Something in between there.”

And a reboot doesn’t imply that it has to contradict anything. A copy and paste of the definition of reboot is a restart, a fresh start; making a new start or creating a new version.

This is elementary stuff, isn’t it?

But yeah, continue to believe it’s a soft reboot if you want. [insert smiley face]

At the end of day it really doesn’t matter, the world will continue to turn.

And to think I even got myself involved in this discussion. Good lord. [insert smiley face]

And Walter Hamada said

“What the multiverse allows you to do is that you can tell great stories and it doesn’t tie you to a single continuity,” he said, pointing to the fact that the Earth of Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Justice League co-exists alongside Matt Reeves’ The Batman Earth. “It just opens doors to us in a way that you couldn’t have if you just had a singular universe,” he said.

In response to a question about the possibility of Elseworlds movies — stories set far outside regular continuity, and often putting characters in extremely unusual circumstances — Hamada said that he’s open to the idea. “It really comes down to the right filmmaker and the right idea. We want them to be great, we want them to be special,” he said, with Joker — which exists outside of every other movie continuity — as an example. “There has to be a reason for it.”

So Elseworlds and Multiverse is what they’re doing.

And Walter Hamada hasn’t done much because he just became President of DC Films in 2018.

Mr. Hamada and Mr. Emmerich had two options: Figure out how to make the various story lines and character incarnations coexist or start over.

The answer is the multiverse. Boiled down, it means that some characters (Wonder Woman as portrayed by Ms. Gadot, for instance) will continue their adventures on Earth 1, while new incarnations (Mr. Pattinson as “The Batman”) will populate Earth 2.

What has done so far though has been a mix of Elseworlds with the Joker, and wrapping up Wonder Woman and Aquaman because those were successful, and starting new with Multiverse projects like The Batman. And with more to come, because I assume JJ Abrams and Ta-Nehisi Coates’ Superman will be either Elseworlds or Multiverse.

And there may be a “regular continuity” in the works somewhere too, maybe in the Rock’s Black Adam.

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68

Idk if that’s true. We see Diana running around in the middle of the street fully costumed and fighting all the people in the mall. Plus the world nearly collapsed with international attention as Maxwell Lord attempted his plan before she stopped him. She was definitely not low profile in that movie (but that’s one critique amongst a lot of issues I have with it).

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Yup, I remember too a couple years back Gal addressed Wonder Woman 1 doing it’s own thing with the character that basically contradicts what was established in BvS then we see them take that ball and run it even further down with WW84.

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Side-Note: In 84’ wasn’t Wonder Woman also in the White House fighting security guards

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There’s a reason she takes out the cameras in that mall.

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Yep, good thing no one saw her. None of the criminals she stopped. Not that little girl. None of the hundreds of people that were in the mall they were robbing. None of the people on the street. None of the army men that watched her take off in a jet that turned invisible. I could go on and on with this one. I don’t think this is the biggest problem of the DCEU or even WW84, but pretending like breaking a couple cameras covers all of the other stuff she did that made her stand out and known about in that film feels a little lazy and poorly thought out from the writing department.

Edit: Also, what @NanoDeVice said:

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72

Perhaps it is, but my point remains. That detail is in the film so that Patty Jenkins can have her cake and eat it, too.

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Fair. I still think that WW84 has a bunch of issues, but that’s not really what this thread is about. If you or anyone likes the film and doesn’t find it an issue, then I’m happy for and jealous of you. I just think that WW84 in particular is the prime example of the breaking and jarring continuity of the DCEU. I know you’ve said in this thread that’s not something you care about so I’ll just chop this up to personal preferences if that’s cool.

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74

Oh, trust me: I do see it as a case of Obi-Wan Kenobi “certain point of view” logic, where her statement about “walking away from mankind” has to be taken with quite a few grains of salt.

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How long would you consider it normal for her to take o get over Steve?

Like his movie should have come before JL(either version)?

Yeah, unfortunately Snyder decided to make Jimmy CIA and give him a new hole in his head

Yes please

76

There’s never an exact amount of time for grief. Everyone is different. As far as Diana’s case goes, it was the first guy she ever met and only knew for a couple days. Even if they grew to be actually, genuinely, truly in love during that incredibly short time together, I would say a year or two max before you start to move on. Maybe others would say longer, but I think everyone would agree that 70 YEARS is unreasonably long time for a relationship like that.

As to your Aquaman question, I’m not saying his solo film should have come before JL. What I’m saying is that Arthur acts completely different in both films. The character doesn’t really feel like the same person outside of them both being played by Jason Mamoa.

Hope that clears things up. :slight_smile:

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Just an idle thought, but I wonder if Warner Bros. even wants to try and “catch up” to Marvel at this point, insofar as a connected universe is concerned?

Walter Hamada has of course emphasized the Elseworlds and the Multiverse approach, which historically has been how Warner Bros. has always handled the DC characters – or to be more exact, the unconnected universe approach.

And at this point the super-hero movie genre is at a pretty mature state, so how much further can it possibly grow?

And the super-hero genre is I guess similar to the western genre in terms of being a popular type of film. And westerns lasted for decades in Hollywood, from the earliest days of Hollywood with the Classic Era of Westerns in the 1920s (and earlier) and the 1930s, and reaching even greater popularity in the 1940s and 50s.

And through the 1960s and the Clint Eastwood Spaghetti Westerns, all the way up until the 1970s and the Acid Westerns.

And westerns are still made today from time to time, but of course it’s not like it used to be. So maybe 50 years as a somewhat dominate popular film genre.

Super-hero movies have by and large been a constant since about the year 2000, give or take, so about 20 years. And everything seems to move more rapidly now and turnover more quickly than in the past. So is 20 years a half-way point, or near to an end point?

And Marvel’s approach is maybe like the Gunsmoke approach – the western TV show that ran from 1955 to 1975; the longest running television show in history until it was passed in 2019 by Law & Order: Special Victims Unit.

Warner Bros. is looking again to be doing their traditional approach and are looking to give you a little “Stagecoach.” Maybe a little “High Noon,” a little “The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.” Maybe some “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.”

Some diversity in “Django Unchained,” and maybe some Oscar-caliber stuff in “The Revenant.”

Just good stories and next to nothing connected.

So Warner Bros.’ approach may be the long game, because the “current game” has already been pretty much decided and won by Marvel.

And so do Warner Bros. try and copy or emulate Marvel, or just stick to what they’ve always done?

I would think if it were ten years ago Warner Bros. may try and go for it, which is what they basically did with going with Zack Snyder.

After that didn’t pan out exactly as planned, then yeah, Warner Bros. are at the “Let’s rethink that whole universe thing” state.

And I guess they’re just going to go back and do it “the old ways” now. [insert smiley face]

Or maybe not… but it is looking that way.

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Tonally inconsistent?

80

Correct! :slight_smile:

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Well, his movie was him kind of just starting out