Birds of Prey 2020

Dinah is not red haired in the movie. That’s just an effect they put on the image. If you look at the Huntress poster above it, her hair is red too, but you can’t tell because she has darker hair. Check the original poster with all of the characters and you’ll see Black Canary has blonde/brown hair.

birds-of-prey-black-canary-e1549551364370.jpg

1 Like

@Mae
I get that. I’m just saying the reason Dinah has the name Black Canary is because she was blonde. Dinah is one of my favorite characters. I’m just PO’d they can’t give her a decent live action take. Plus canonically, there aren’t that many blonde heroines. Supergirl, Power Girl (mostly because she was originally the Earth 2 Supergirl archetype, Stargirl (a relatively recent character), and Dinah. Historically there weren’t a lot of blonde heroes or heroines because blonde was a difficult color to print back in the day. The color would often run. Look at some old Flash comics, Barry’s hair is really quite yellow. Yellow, on of the three print colors could be printed ok on its own but did not react well when mixed cyan, magenta or black. For years, Dinah was the only non-super strength female who could kick butt and take names in hand to hand combat. One can argue that fir a couple of decades she was one of the finest hand to hand combatants in the DCU, male or female.

And let’s face it. They did it for one reason and one reason only. Three hot female leads. One’s a blonde, ones a brunette, and (now) ones a redhead. It’s a sexist film trope.

Oh well, what’s done is done.

She doesn’t have red hair in the movie. That was just a stylized poster where they highlighted the character in red.

Michelle Pfeiffer was blonde despite not being one in comics. Michael Keaton looked nothing like Bruce whatsoever. Those two are still talked about by many fans as the best live action portrayals of Cat and Bat. As long as they respect the character and do her well, hair color is the last thing that matters. As long as they don’t kill her off after sidelining her only to have her last words be about propping up a weird made up romance, I am happy we are getting another Black Canary.

Again, she’s not red haired in the movie.

1 Like

The trailer is here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGM4uYZzfu0&t=0s

4 Likes

Even less excited now. Power to those who want to see it, but I’m not inclined.

1 Like

@cam.Bat I’m still excited, but can totally see why someone wouldn’t be. I’m still hoping we get more Helena and Dinah in following trailers and in the actual movie.

2 Likes

I squealed when I saw Harley and her hyena, personally. :smiley:

5 Likes

Her Hyena looks so happy :slight_smile:

I loved this shot from the trailer. Reminded me of something Joker would do.

3 Likes

Looks good to me, more excited to see it now.

1 Like

@msgtv Same. I’ve accepted that it’s a Harley movie featuring the Birds of Prey and now I’m all in. That trailer was exciting and the movie looks beautifully shot :slight_smile:

1 Like

Same here, @nu52. I’m a huge fan of BOP and I’m hoping we will be seeing an actual BOP movie later once DC releases the Batgirl movie, and then we can have a BOP movie. But these characters need to be introduced first. Loved loved loved the trailer! I want more now.

1 Like

@nu52
I disagree. These are modern day mythology and as such, iconography matters.

Michelle Phiffer’s hair color is merely one of the many points I have against her lousy performance as Catwoman, though to be fair, some of them fall on Burton’s shoulders as well.

Is Superman still Superman without the S on his chest? Is Batman still Batman without the cape and cowl? Is Hawkman still Hawkman without his wings? The list of iconography goes on and on. Dinah’s long blonde hair (not brown with a few highlights) is part of her iconography. It is the iconography behind the word Canary in her name.

If a director want to make the call on changing the iconography of characters, cool. But let’s put Superman in a purple leotard and a domino mask is his next film and see how well that goes over.

1 Like

@DeSade-acolyte

These really are not modern day mythological characters. The Birds of Prey are not known in the past or present zeitgeist. Batgirl is. I’d be hard pressed to find people that don’t read comics, but know of Batgirl AND know of her as the BOP founder. If you’re referring to comic book characters in general with that statement, that’s a different story and off topic.

Superman’s S on his chest has been established to mean something to his character. It is tied to his character. Even still, if he were just in a blue suit, flying around shooting lasers out of his eyes and performing feats of strength, people would know who he was (especially if he were referred to as Superman just as Black Canary will be).

“Is Batman still Batman without the cape and cowl?” No, because the whole point is that he look like a bat, whereas Canary has never been about dressing to look like a canary, otherwise she’d have wings. Hawkman’s powers of flight are derived from his wings, so that’s different too. It’s not like this Black Canary is running around without vocal chords. Black Canary has been depicted multiple times as having black hair in the comics. Canary’s costume also has yellow elements mixed into the black leather at times, so even if she didn’t have blonde hair, the yellow for the canary part of her name would still be represented. Really, the fishnets is the iconography mostly associated with Black Canary. If you have Black Canary walking out in her blonde wig and fishnets with the bathing suit/corset, most of the general audience wouldn’t scream out, “Black Canary!” They’d think a Playboy Bunny lost her bunny ears.

Comparing costume changes for Superman that are that extreme, while this Black Canary hasn’t even been shown to have a super hero costume is strange. Henry didn’t have the S curl. Did he stop being superman? This Dinah uses fishnets, she sings, she is a skilled fighter, she uses yellow in her wardrobe and she has blonde in her hair. It’s also hinted at her having her canary cry. It just seems like people are getting really particular with their critiques. I understand if you’re not a fan of the change, but to paint it as if the blonde hair is essential to the character is putting way too much of an importance on something that was never that important.

2 Likes

@TX85 Harley really should not be the main attraction/focus or star of a Birds of Prey film.

Good thing we’re getting Birds of Prey and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One HARLEY QUINN.

1 Like

It’d be better to leave Birds of Prey out of the title and just call it “The Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn.” If the argument is that the Birds aren’t well known enough to fill seats but Harley is, then why include the name in the title and marketing?

1 Like

@cam.Bat I haven’t seen the movie, but usually the people that title the movie are titling it because of the content in the film itself, not because they’re aware of how the movie will be marketed. It very well could be a case of, “They should have just called it Harley Quinn,” but we won’t know until we watch the movie.

@nu52
I disagree. Just because a mythological character is not as well known, say Diemeter vs Zeus or Hera doesn’t mean they aren’t part of the mythology and her iconography is just as important to her character.

As for the iconography of given characters and what are the critical make up of that iconography. I suppose we’ll just agree to disagree. I can see some rationale in portions of your argument, but I disagree with them.

However debates on characters is what makes comics great, we all see different things as important. (I have a bone to pick with HCQ about his view on Nightshade’s first modern costume, but that is for a different thread.)

@DeSade-acolyte As long as everything is civil, I don’t mind discussions where people disagree. It just shows we care about these characters.

I can see what you mean by some mythological characters being lesser-known, but they’re allowed to be, IMO, because they are still part of the original mythology. When you say characters are now modern day versions of them, then it becomes a matter of those being compared being well known. That’s just how I see it.

@nu52
Thatbus certainly where we diverge. Virtually any mythology has its B, C, & D listers. The same is true for comics.

IMO (and I’m not alone in this opinion), mythology is a literary structure used to create a reasonably connected set of parables, stories of human behavior, and often judge which of those behaviors is “good” or “evil” (morality tales and passion plays).

I personally find it disturbing when people bristle at the idea of “their sacred text” is not mythology but others are. I made the statement when talking about mythology of saying that the Bible is a form of mythology from a literary standpoint and can be dissected, analyzed, compared to other literary mythologies. Greco/Roman or Norse, for example. Even the mere mention in the same breath of the words “mythology” and “bible” (or Torah or Koran or insert_current_religous_text_here) and more than a couple of of people felt very “agitated”, shall we say. I found that rather disturbing. there’s nothing that says mythologies (or certain mythological stories) are “true” or “false”. It is merely the structure/literary form so many of these books take.

So in that sense comics are modern mythology, so is Tolkien. The fit the literary form and that includes the A - D (Or Z) listers. Are some characters more significant than others, sure. That’s why we have various ranked lists, after all.

@DeSade-acolyte

You’re right in regards to the mythology points. I just can’t see Demeter at her height being lesser known than Black Canary or Huntress, as she was not just around as entertainment, but was highly important to farmers, etc. A lot of mythology had been viewed as being true at the time. It was also beliefs held by groups of people. No one thinks comics are true. They’re obviously fiction. It also isn’t a straight forward mythology like Tolkien. Comics have so many reboots and reinventions. On top of that, these comics actually include mythological characters from other myths. Multiple pantheons make appearances in comics. Wonder Woman’s New 52 story reimagined the Greek Gods extremely. Many of them look nothing like their Greek versions. Does that stop those characters from being the Greek Gods in that story? No. People hated Superman having a collar and no red underwear, it was still Superman. Anyway, this is so off topic. :sweat_smile:

This movie is now an extension of that comic mythology. They get to now craft the iconography of these characters for this version of them. I can see why it would suck for comic fans to not see the characters they recognize on screen through visual cues. What I saw in the trailer was a woman with blonde in her hair singing in an outfit with fishnet-like material that was causing a glass many feet away from her to shake. She was also shown to possess fighting abilities when she was taking down some random person. My mind automatically thinks, “Black Canary.”