Arrowverse Couch Club, Week 9: May 17-19 episodes (Batwoman and Supergirl season finales)


And then there was one. The season finales just keep on coming, as we had quite the eventful Sunday in saying an early goodbye to both Batwoman and Supergirl. Though they weren’t able to properly wrap up the Alice and Leviathan storylines as planned, they still managed to end on some pretty thrilling and eventful episodes that leave plenty of potential for the next seasons. And not to be completely outdone, Legends of Tomorrow also had a lot of fun (as usual) fighting through a zombie apocalypse, so just another typical day for them.

I’d also like to take a moment to thank Ruby Rose, who sadly announced on Tuesday that she’d be leaving Batwoman ahead of the next season. I know I’m not alone in saying that she really owned the role of Kate Kane in her time on the show, and she’ll certainly be missed going forward. Her replacement will likely be a hot topic of discussion over the summer, but for now, let’s just focus on the positives of her run and wish her well in whatever her next venture ends up being :bat:

Batwoman – "O Mouse!"

  • How does Alice’s murder of Mouse affect your perception of her character?
  • Considering the amount of times Team Batwoman has encountered people (mainly Mouse) convincingly disguised as others, how do you see Hush’s attempt to masquerade as Bruce Wayne playing out?

Supergirl – "Immortal Kombat"

  • Now that Kara and Lena look like they may finally be back on fully good terms, are you looking forward to seeing them work together again, or did you prefer Lena’s previous dynamic?
  • What is your take on Alex becoming a full-fledged vigilante in the finale? Any thoughts on a potential name for her new alter ego?

Legends of Tomorrow – "I Am Legends"

  • One trend that I’ve noticed with Sara this season is the increasing amount of times she’s felt that she had to lie to Ava, first about the job in Star City, then initially about her powers and now about the vision of her death. While she’s certainly had noble intentions for doing so, is this becoming too big of a problem to ignore?

Lastly, what episode was your favorite?

  • Batwoman – “O, Mouse!”
  • Supergirl – “Immortal Kombat”
  • Legends of Tomorrow – “I Am Legends”

0 voters

While I don’t necessarily find myself being any more or less sympathetic in particular toward Alice, it definitely does make me even more terrified of her. We did get a sense of how badly she wanted to see Kate dead, but this really showed the full extent she’s willing to go to in order to accomplish her mission. After all of her talk of wanting to stay w/ her brother and not letting anything keep them apart again, we now know that she ultimately values her revenge even more. So much so that while she can’t stand the thought of moving forward w/out him, she’d rather they’d be separated when he’s dead than w/ him alive, considering that leaving Gotham was never really an option. There’s clearly nothing Alice isn’t willing to sacrifice to make sure she kills Kate, and an enemy w/ nothing to lose is indeed a truly frightening one.

It just depends on what angle the writers want to take. Based on what we’ve seen before, it would make complete sense that Kate and Luke would be skeptical upon seeing Bruce show up out of nowhere. It actually seems like it’d be pretty easy to figure out that “Bruce” would be an imposter. While Tommy may be obsessed w/ Bruce and know more about him than most, he still doesn’t know everything, and all it could take is the right question to expose him. For example, if Kate or Luke asks him where the Joker is and he responds by saying that he’s locked in Arkham, they’ll know the truth right there. Or they could just do a DNA test since Tommy will be Bruce in face only.

That said, it would also seem at least a bit anti-climactic to build this up, especially since it’s now the cliffhanger we have for the about seven months, and have the plan fail almost immediately. While I’d like to think that Kate and Luke are smart enough to see through this scheme, it’s also possible that Tommy’s impression may be convincing enough to stall that skepticism just long enough for him to find and steal the kryptonite before getting caught. Since this was meant to be the lead-in for the season finale, I anticipate that Tommy’s stint as Bruce won’t last long, and could even end up serving as a prelude to the real Bruce coming back.

I’m hoping beyond belief that this marks the true end of their conflict and that they’ll go back to trusting each other and working w/ each other regularly in season 6 and beyond. We’ve seen time and time again that they’re stronger together and weaker apart. While I do appreciate this season’s efforts to address the fallout of Kara keeping her identity for so long, I’ve obviously had my problems w/ how it was executed, and now I can try to look forward to the two of them putting the worst behind them and having an even stronger relationship where there are no secrets.

But one thing toward the end of the episode makes me worried that the show might not be dropping the whole “Is Lena a villain?” thread next season. I really didn’t like how after talking Andrea down from killing Kara, Lena was seen to be holding the kryptonite dagger while she was hugging Andrea. This likely had to be done either as a fakeout, which will only serve to cause pointless stress for the next year, or to show that Lena will still be acting shady and keeping secrets next season, which I’m sick to death of seeing. It’s even more frustrating that we’ll have to wait about a full year to get any more insight on this.

While it is strange to see Alex take on this new role after nearly five seasons of being a federal agent, I do think there’s some real potential here. She’ll still get to kick plenty of ass and now be able to do so more on her own terms w/out having to worry about any of the DEO’s bureaucracy/red tape weighing her down. My main takeaway, though, is that I just hope this new journey doesn’t further distract her from her desire to be a mom, which I still very much want to see happen. I’d also like to see her get a proper mask, since she’d definitely get made if that hood falls down

I actually wouldn’t be surprised to see her take up the Guardian mantle, especially if she starts using James’ shield, which she totally should since I feel like it’s just been collecting dust since he left. But I also definitely got some Huntress vibes from her outfit, and that would also be really cool to see her take that name. I know Helena Bertinelli claimed it first, but if she’s still around at all post-Crisis, she likely also hasn’t used it in quite a while, so I feel like it should be up for grabs.

I’m starting to think that it is, yes. Obviously no character/relationship is perfect, but I feel like this sort of thing has just been happening too much w/ Sara, and I’m really not sure why. I understand her wanting to either wait until the right time to tell Ava something or not wanting to needlessly upset her, but Sara has to know better by now. She has to know that Ava knows her too well to not pick up on when she’s lying. And while Ava has understood the reasons behind each instance, I’m worried that it might get to the point where the lying is just happening too frequently for anyone’s liking. I love seeing Sara and Ava happy together, and while I’m not opposed to the show adding a bit of conflict/drama to keep things interesting, this doesn’t exactly seem like the most organic thing to include.

1 Like

Alice just got a whole lot scarier in my opinion. After everything she did to save Mouse earlier in the season, I thought there wasn’t anything she wouldn’t do to be with him. But now… She wants to kill Kate so badly she kills her brother? But she didn’t want to be without him? That logic is the scary part for me. It’s the Joker ideology of ‘no-one gets to kill Batman but me and I’ll kill anyone else who tries’. And it is somehow so well thought out that it isn’t crazy. That’s what gets me.

I hope they notice it isn’t Bruce quickly. Though, it really is up to the writers. Tommy might know everything about Bruce but does he know how to get into the cave? What’s in the cave itself? I hope they can judge his reactions accordingly and figure it out.

Side note: This was my favorite episode of the week purely because of how excited I was by the Bruce face for Tommy reveal. I was jumping up and down in my chair I was so excited.

I hope they stay best friends forever, please and thank you. They can do so much good together, and their personalities clash just enough so it isn’t perfect but they are still great together. The ‘Lena is a villian’ trope was over done, especially after Lex came into the picture.

I’m excited for Alex, my only issue is the ‘mask’. We went back to the first season Oliver look, and I was never a big fan of it. Unless, the point is for her to not have a mask? I don’t know then… As for a name, something original would be nice.

Sara has been though so much and I hate that she thinks she needs to lie to Ava. But, Ava wouldn’t have handled the death news well early on, in my opinion. Sara still looks at things tactically while Ava is more of a heart person. But that’s also why they are so great together. Also, it is Sara’s second time dying and she got a head’s up this time. Maybe she needed a little time to think it over for herself? But I still think she should be lying to Ava less.

Second side note: I thought this was the finale. I was so upset they left it like that, because I knew they had actually finished filming. I was very happy when I learned I was wrong. I didn’t want to wait a year to find out what Charlie was gonna do next.


I will have my thoughts on Batwoman and Legends this weekend but here’s my weekly Legends summary

1 Like

All of this continues to highlight how Alice is the perfect nemesis. She’s just about as dangerous, smart and insane as Joker, but the family connection gives their dynamic something that Batman and Joker never had. It’s a great way to draw parallels while still keeping things fresh

I highly doubt it, if he even knows it exists, but he wouldn’t necessarily need to. I figure the idea is that if he can successfully imitate Bruce, Kate and Luke would lead him right to the kryptonite and he wouldn’t have to do much else

I know a lot of people were speculating that this could happen, and it was pretty awesome to see that they were right. It sucks that it’s gonna be quite a while before we get to really see Warren Christie in the role, but I’m optimistic that the wait will be worth it

I know Alex doesn’t have to worry about the repercussions of going against the federal government anymore, but she’s still got a full life of her own, so I figured she’d wanna protect her identity. Maybe she just knows that that part’s a work in progress and we can get an improvement early in season 6

Sara’s had so many deaths and near misses that the show’s essentially made her immortal. Even if they ever tried to give her a really convincing and emotional death, I still wouldn’t believe it w/ all the times she’s come back

1 Like

Honestly, it doesn’t change much for me with her going forward. I mean she did kill her closest ally which is pretty stupid in my opinion. I mean she doesn’t have many allies? If any? She has her minions and then a very loose one with tommy. But in terms of was I shocked, no. I was more shocked when she killed Mary’s mom then this killing. I guess if I had to pick I would say the perception I had for her that she was a smart villain and could see a long term vision for what her evil plans are is a little tainted now.

I mean are they definitely going to be on edge because ‘Bruce’ just pops up out of nowhere? Certainly. But are they going to think it’s just another fake face? No. And certainly not when they find mouse dead. Another reason is ‘Bruce’ is family to the Bat-fam and dealing with family is very different than a random who has another face. I guess what I’m trying to say is they will be blind to it at first.

No hug! :pensive::-1:t3:

Yes I am 200% happy they are back to being a super team. (Pun intended) I am hoping this will make season 6 the quality it was in pre-crisis season 5. I also hope this finally puts to bed the “Lena will eventually go evil because she’s a Luthor”. It’s like they spend all season every year trying to beat the big bad then last episode “OK! Time to bring Lena in and destroy them!” (Ex. Lena utilizes the lead machine to rid of daxamites, defeats reign, goes with Kara to kasnia and shoots lex). Damn now I’m thinking we really needed Lena season 1. :joy: Now with Lena on their side again bye, bye Lex. I am happy we will get more Lillian now, I’m interested to see more post-crisis Lillian.

It seems to me they used the same colors for Alex’s suit that they used during the Wonderland episode. They just replaced the El symbol and cape for a hood. She definitely looks badass. I think it’s really funny though that they just said in the last episode that she should wear a mask and then she just wears extra eye makeup. Maybe she will get it later on? And I was thinking after the episode, “she doesn’t have a Super-name!” I have no idea on a name though.

I feel like every time Nia has a dream she says “I should have interpreted that better” so that’s getting a little old. So maybe we could get some development on that next season? It seems to me when she has a clearer head she can interpret them better.

Can we get rid of William before he becomes another James? Please??

I also really hope Andrea becomes part of the super friends. She has a connection with Lena and I really like her powers. She could be so useful.

All in all this was great episode, it FELT like a finale with appropriate cliffhangers. On to the next!

1 Like

Agreed. She’s very dangerous. Shows she is definitely willing to do ANYTHING to get what she wants. Kill your only support (besides the book) you’ve had for over a decade?

Smart. Didn’t think of this. Should of thought of this though considering how many times felicity did it in Arrow.

NO!! Now you are stressing me out lol. Did Lena give some kind of facial expression? Or was the Kryptonite dagger zoomed in on? I don’t remember. Now I’ll have to watch it again haha


I agree with this, but then I couldn’t think of anything because of her not being in the comics. Haha. SuperAgent too corny? :joy::joy:


Alice is definitely getting tunnel vision w/ how dedicated she is to killing Kate, but at this point she may really not care about what happens afterward. I’m getting the sense that even if she gets sent back to Arkham or, God forbid, dies, it’ll all be worth it to her if she can finally kill Kate

But w/ Mouse dying in a sewer, it seems like there’ll be a very good chance that they won’t know he’s dead for a while. They wouldn’t go looking for anything down there, and Alice certainly wouldn’t have any reason to tell them that Mouse is dead. I just get the feeling that when “Bruce” shows up, they’ll still be thinking that Mouse is alive

Not only does this drive home how crucial Lena is to Kara and the rest of the team, but it also kind of underscores just how little the DEO will be missed in the grand scheme of things. For all their resources, personnel, connections, technology, etc., it always seemed like they were still turning to Lena to save the day. Secret government organization or not, it’s nice to know that some things never change

That is a good observation. I guess SuperAlex had more foreshadowing than we initially thought

I would kill for an episode/arc where Nia goes on some sort of journey to find out more about her people and powers. It could finally provide her w/ some unique development and would have the potential to really unlock her powers so that we don’t have to keep dealing w/ moments like that, as you mentioned

So apparently Staz Nair posted something on his Instagram that confirmed he’d be back for season 6 (the actual season 6, not just the 1st episode or 2 that’ll be a carryover from season 5), but he deleted it almost immediately. Take it w/ a few grains of salt, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him back at this point, though I can hardly figure why. There was no lead-up to his “romance” w/ Kara, and even when they did go out, it got almost no attention at the time and absolutely zero in these last few episodes. The show doesn’t even wanna seem to commit to them, and yet they chose to have those dating scenes in anyway. There’s just nothing about William or his paring w/ Kara that makes me wanna see any more of him

Lena’s expression was one of comfort for Andrea. It was just the way the camera lingered on that shot for like a second too long. Given the show’s treatment of Lena, I’m unfortunately expecting that this’ll be used in some sort of shady way, though I’ve also been considering ways that it could be given a positive spin. Lena could take the kryptonite and destroy it, or she could give it to Kara (in a lead box, of course) to let her decide what to do w/ it. If it’s the latter, a great move would be to have Kara let Lena keep it, similar to how she did w/ Kate in Crisis. I think that would ultimately bring things full circle from when Kara lost it on Lena in season 3 for hiding kryptonite from her (despite her noble intentions w/ Sam), and would really be a true indicator of their restored trust. I’m not expecting this to be the case, but it’s nice to think about anyway

1 Like

With Staz I have nothing against the actor and I wouldn’t mind him staying if he had an impact on the show. But it just seems like his character takes away from the role Nia or Kara has at catco. Now I initially thought oh new character, him and Kara will be together by end of season, but 19 episodes and they’ve had one date which was given exactly one scene of a screen time. Then I was thinking ok he’s really a villain and we are all being tricked…but nope.

Everything you said about Lena I definitely agree with. I definitely don’t want to see another storyline where Kara is mad at Lena for having it. Doesn’t Lena already know how to make it? Even so, having said that I like that idea of letting her keep it the most. A scene where Kara tells her to keep it will definitely confirm to me their friendship is headed back to a more solid ground.

1 Like

Staz is great, but this really sums up the issues w/ William’s character. Not only has he taken away plenty of screentime from other more deserving characters, but there’s also been almost no attempt to give him much of a distinct personality. I’d certainly rather he stick to season 5/the beginning of season 6, but if he’s definitely going to stick around, hopefully the writing for him will get better and he’ll start to form a more fleshed out character

She does, and that’s probably something that would remain intact post-Crisis. But if the writers really didn’t want this to be a factor going forward, I suppose they could always make it so that the post-Crisis formula for kryptonite is different from the pre-Crisis one. That would probably be too much work put into what would likely be a regressive thread, but there’s not much that I’m ruling out as a possibility going forward

1 Like

So there is a clip on YouTube showing just this part and you are definitely right or at least on to something. Lena’s facial expression really just shows relief that she was able to convince Andrea to stop. BUT when she first hugs Lena you can’t see Lena’s hand, then it tilts down to show the dagger in her hand. They could have just ended the scene with them just hugging, but they added that little camera move in sneakily. And that dagger is not to be heard from again. So my two theories is 1) they were guna talk about it later but it didn’t get filmed because of corona or 2) it’s waiting to be brought up again next season. Because we don’t even know if Kara knows about Lena saving her yet.

I am going to blind psot some thoughts and then go back and read the thread.

I was not expecting Alice to kill Mouse. “Oh sh!!t”, was said aloud. “you made me choose” and her speech on betrayal.

I like Lena and Kara working together. I liked kara’s outpouring to Lena. It wasn’t a speech and she was kind of yelling, so i don’t know what to call it.

I’ll get to Legends later.

1 Like

I was definitely not expecting it. I knew Alice was going to do something, she wouldn’t just run away, but I didn’t think she would go that far. Honestly, I’ve been holding out hope all season for Alice to be redeemed so we could keep her around beyond this first season, and maybe even evolve her to Red Alice, but after this, I’m not sure how well a redemption could be pulled off without making it look cheap. The writers are really good at humanizing Alice, to the point where I still felt for her plight during this episode, but how quickly would they be able to turn her around? If she was willing to kill Mouse, then how do they stop her from killing Kate?

I’m convinced they should be able to figure out the ruse quickly, but with Bruce having been gone for so long, as well as Kate’s perception of Bruce changing during Crisis, especially after the reveal that Earth-Prime Bruce has also killed. I definitely don’t see this as a long-term plan, though, it feels like it would take one episode to play out.

Full disclosure, I have not been keeping up with Supergirl this season because I didn’t like how much they were going on the “Is Lena a villain?” route because it seems clear to me that the answer in the end is no, after getting to know her in the past couple seasons. Additionally, while I loved the focus on Kara and Lena’s dynamic, it felt unnecessarily antagonistic if that makes sense? So while I am obviously pretty biased, I’m looking forward to Supergirl finally putting this storyline behind it.

I really liked it! I think it’s a cool evolution of her character, and while these superhero shows feel like they make everyone a superhero at some point, Alex already had the basis for it. Plus, I like the suit, and the harsh eye makeup, and I’m sure I would have more to say if I’d actually stuck around for most of the season. I might as well catch up on the series once I’m out of school, if only to see the evolution.

I love Sara and Ava, I really do, but I do think all this is just going to stack up, and if it doesn’t get addressed, there’s going to be more drama than I’d like out of their relationship. Or, alternatively, it could just never be addressed and is a coincidence all of this is happening at once, but I highly doubt that, and I trust the Legends writers.

1 Like

The difference here is that not only is Mouse less skilled than Kate, but he also didn’t see it coming at all, whereas Kate knows that Alice hates her and probably wants her dead. It’ll be harder to avoid if and probably when Alice gets her hands on the kryptonite, but having something that can pierce the Batsuit is hardly a guarantee that Alice will succeed. At the end of the day, there are a lot of things that can kill Kate, but she’s still standing

I wouldn’t be surprised if the plan was to have Tommy impersonate Bruce for only the last episode or two of the season, but then end the season by having the real Bruce come back, and that could be the big cliffhanger leading into season 2

It makes perfect sense to me. I would’ve rather the show not have gone down this path, but considering that they did have Kara keep her secret from Lena for so long, it does make sense in those circumstances that there would be a big conflict between them. That said, I also do feel like it was overdone and not quite fair to either character in the way it played out

If this ends up being the last time it happens, I wouldn’t mind them dropping the thread and have Avalance move on, especially since Ava’s been understanding of Sara’s motivations behind not telling her the truth right away each time. That said, if it happens again, I just feel like Ava wouldn’t be able to keep brushing it off and excusing it

1 Like

This is actually one of my problems with this show right now. The Kryptonite weakness for the suit makes sense, but Alice knows who Kate is. She can just walk up to her the middle of the street and stab her. There is no real need for this Kryptonite subplot except as an excuse for a crossover. Now, for the Crows trying to find Kryptonite, that make sense. They don’t know it is Kate. If Alice wants to kill Kate, I don’t see why she needs to kill her in the Batwoman suit. It just makes it all too much.


Honestly, by this I didn’t mean actual ability to kill Kate, I meant more, “How can they close this plot thread?” How do they stop making Alice want to kill Kate, without making it feel forced? I doubt they would just kill her and already they’ve proven you can’t just lock Alice up in Arkham. Maybe they’ll go a Flash route and have Alice be a looming presence in every season from here on out, but I feel like that would be a disservice to the character. I was hoping for a redemption Red Alice style, but Alice feels too far gone for that to happen.

So I guess what I was really trying to say was, how are they going to wrap up Alice’s character arc while still making it satisfying?

The more I think about this, the more I feel like Alice may be convinced that she has to kill Kate as Batwoman. I feel like she’s been calling her “Batwoman” instead of “Kate” a lot more lately, which may indicate more of a fixation on the alter ego instead of the person. Like maybe she sees that her sister is already dead since she can’t believe that Kate would ever betray her the way she did, so only Batwoman is left in her mind. Or maybe she still loves Kate just enough to not want to kill her unmasked, so it’d feel more like she’s killing this vigilante who’s ruined her life instead of the sister she’s loved. It may not be the most practical approach, but I could see them trying to justify it from Alice’s twisted POV. It would just be better to get a scene addressing this

Yeah, that’s definitely a much more involved and complicated question. I really can’t think of a way in which it could wrap up satisfyingly, but that’s just 1 of many reasons why I’m a fan instead of a writers. All I do know is that she’s the last character on the show I want to see leave, though I’m definitely struggling to think of ways in which she’d continue to be a main character or just pop up about once a season a la Reverse Flash


As a Joker type, it would make sense for Alice to kill Batwoman, even tho she is targeting the person under the cowl. But @arkhamassassin actually says it better above.


I had seen how well Alice operated on her own so I did not see her as dependent on Mouse as he was on her. I felt so bad when I realized she had poisoned him. He seemed like he was going to be happy as Arkham then she ripped it away from him and then he wanted to leave and believed she wanted to. I felt his heart break with betrayal but I am interested to see Alice move on without him.
As for the Bruce Wayne fake, realistically I think they should be able to figure it out pretty quickly. He cannot do the mimicry that Mouse could so his voice would be different. Those closest to him such as Luke and Kate should know this isn’t him and with Mouse and Cartwright stealing faces they should be able to tell. Now of course as Bruce played the playboy those not so close would not necessarily know or pay attention to what he sounds like. And if he does the gruff Christian Bald Batman voice anyone can imitate that.
Plus as Flash has shown us, main characters can be tricked easily by doppelgängers even if they are very close cough…cough…Iris.
I will admit it felt more like closing a lot of threads and setting up next season even with shortened episode count than Flash did. Flash still felt like there was more story to complete

1 Like