After over six seasons, more than 100 episodes, a superhero stint and countless pop culture references, Cisco Ramon has left Central City and Team Flash. This week at the Arrowverse Couch Club, we’re joining The Flash in saying goodbye to Cisco, a fixture of this show since the very beginning. But before he and his girlfriend Kamilla begin their new life together, the team has to come together one last time to take down a new version of an old villain: Rainbow Raider. Elsewhere in the Arrowverse, Legends of Tomorrow shifted the focus to Astra and her struggles to adapt to her new life on Earth, Luke Fox’s life hung in the balance as Batwoman sought to bring the Crow responsible for his shooting to justice and Clark took a more active role in Lois’ investigation into Morgan Edge on Superman & Lois.
Legends of Tomorrow – “The Satanist’s Apprentice”
Now that Constantine has lost his magical powers and will have to work to regain them, should he eventually fully regain them or would you prefer to ultimately see him have to work with a reduced level of power?
Batwoman – “Armed and Dangerous”
Did you agree with Jacob’s decision to shut down the Crows immediately, or should he have taken more time to assess everything before making such a huge move?
The Flash – “Good-Bye Vibrations”
After six-and-a-half seasons on the show, did this feel like a proper sendoff for Cisco?
What have been some of your favorite moments/lines involving Cisco throughout his time on the show?
Superman & Lois – “Loyal Subjekts”
Now that you’ve (hopefully) had some time to digest it, what are your theories regarding Morgan Edge’s true identity?
I imagine it’ll be a while before his new training is complete, but I think I’d rather see that journey end w/ him being restored to full strength along w/ Astra gaining the same level of power. We’re already gonna have to be subject to John having to work w/ beginner’s level magic as this season progresses, and while that’ll definitely be amusing to see and should better teach him some more humility, I don’t think I’d want to see him stuck there past this season. It continues to be good character development for him, but there’s nothing quite like seeing him at the top of his game and able to cast these incredible spells that both look and sound so awesome. Plus he’s usually challenged enough anyway by the typical Legends threats as it is, so making him less useful against them in the long run wouldn’t work out as well for the team. In fact, he could actually end up being stronger than ever by having Astra by his side. Just by training and working together, their combined magic should pack even more of a punch than Constantine had on his own before. Something like that would definitely make this upcoming journey of his even more worth the struggle in the end
I might lean toward the latter if I was a citizen of Gotham, but seeing as how we have a much different perspective on this as TV viewers, I think this makes more sense. Maybe some of you feel differently, but I feel like the Crows’ days have been numbered for a while now, though I definitely didn’t think it was gonna happen until at least the end of the season. It’s certainly a huge status quo change, but considering this season started w/ about as big a status quo change as you can get, I suppose it’s appropriate that we continue getting big ones as the season goes on. And the fact that Jacob was able to make such a huge decision just hours after being saved by Ryan (again) tells me that while he might not have been actively thinking about disbanding the Crows before that, perhaps it was something that had been lingering in the back of his mind for a while. But once he saw how truly awful Tavaroff and his crew were, things must’ve quickly fell into place for him
There’s no denying that the Crows have saved lives, but he clearly knows that this mindset of thinking that it’s OK if some innocent people die as long as the Crows can do their jobs is clearly too high a price to pay. It also helps that the Crows aren’t the only law enforcement agency in Gotham, though the GCPD is certainly gonna have their hands full even more so now. If it was just the Crows, I think Jacob would have to slowly close down the organization instead of just immediately dropping them. That said, I do still think there’s a chance the Crows could be brought back in some capacity down the road, albeit in a much different way than we’ve seen them so far. Perhaps that can be the ultimate goal: Shut down the Crows to prevent more people from getting hurt/killed in both the short and long term, but find a way that they can still help save lives w/out such a high cost. Even though Jacob doesn’t need the money, he’s definitely gonna want to find a new purpose now. While it seems like his attention will shift back to Kate for now, that can only last so long, and assuming he remains part of the main cast, he’ll need something new to do after this season ends
For the most part, I felt like it was. It did seem strange at first to see Barry and Caitlin act so composed, even though I knew it was all a front. Like Cisco pointed out, they should’ve known that things were gonna get pretty emotional, and so attempting to put that off instead of just embracing it just felt kinda contrived for the sake of trying to fill time
But thankfully once that passed, things felt much more appropriate. It was great to see him hand the metaphorical keys off to Chester, who dialed his nerd excitement up to 11, and have a separate goodbye since Cisco is definitely the person Chester’s been closest to since he joined the team. I also thought it was kinda cool to have a new version of a season 1 villain as a further way of bridging the gap between the start of their journey and where they are now. And while the montage of past clips was pretty much expected, it was still effective in being emotional as Cisco got to take in the Cortex 1 last time. It’s 1 of those cliches that’s used often for a reason, and seeing him reflect on all he had accomplished in Central City definitely had me tearing up a little. Plus the callback to Poker Face from the pilot at his going-away party was a great touch (Side note: Was Barry specifically trying to sing really weird or is post-Crisis Barry just not a good singer anymore?)
All in all, I thought it was an effective sendoff for a character who’s meant so much to not only this show, but this entire universe. While I know he’ll be back for at least the season finale, I’m still definitely gonna miss Cisco while reminiscing on all the good times he’s helped provide throughout the years
It’s definitely hard to narrow it down considering he’s been in over 100 episodes, but 1 moment that really sticks out is his “death” from season 1. From a general story perspective, it was so thrilling to see Cisco put the pieces together regarding Wells’ true identity and to finally hear him say the name “Eobard Thawne” for the first time. But more than that, Carlos Valdes’ acting really shined here. Up to this point, we had really just seen him be the fun-loving tech guy who, in many ways, was basically the stand-in for us – coming up with villain names, dropping pop culture references and just generally reveling in how cool all this superhero stuff was. But seeing his performance as he slowly realizes that Thawne is going to kill him and him getting more desperate to survive was just heartbreaking in the best way. It really added a much-needed dramatic weight to his character and served to be a turning point for Cisco as well. Not only did we get more heavy acting from him in the next episode when his brother was threatened and he had a breakdown, but his death in what proved to be an alternate timeline was in fact the beginning of his time as Vibe, seeing as his powers started to manifest by allowing him to view that timeline under the right circumstances. It was a phenomenal scene that really proved to be 1 of the most important for his character…even if it technically never happened
And as far as favorite lines, I’ve gotta shout out his hilarious description of Hartley Rathaway from that same season: “He was mostly a jerk, but every once in a while…he could be a dick.”
This show just loves its twist identity reveals, doesn’t it? I think the first question that has to be asked is whether Edge is a true Kryptonian or another one of the Kryptonian sentients put into a host body, and I’m leaning toward the former. From what we’ve seen, the other hosts don’t seem to have much of a sense of who they really are and are instead mostly used as tools, so I do think that “Edge” is legitimately from Krypton. And while this could obviously still end up going in a number of ways, I think all these signs are really pointing in 1 direction as to who he really is: H’el
For those who don’t know (honestly I barely knew until recently), H’el debuted during the New 52 as a clone who was created on Krypton, but believed himself to be a natural-born Kryptonian who saw Jor-El and Lara as his parental figures, thus the “brother” connection w/ Kal. When Krypton was on the brink of destruction, Jor-El created another pod for H’el to not only ensure Kal’s survival, but also to help preserve Krypton’s culture. But like Kara, H’el’s pod was thrown off course and he didn’t make it to Earth until 27 years after Kal. When he finally arrived, it kicked off a storyline involving H’el seeking to restore Krypton at the cost of Earth, which brought Superman, Supergirl and Superboy together. This all sounds a lot like what Edge is currently doing on the show, albeit w/ some added Kryptonian “clones” of his own. We could ultimately be seeing a reworking of that character/storyline here, and I’m really intrigued to what other similarities, if any, could present themselves as this goes on. Of course there are still other questions regardless of whether or not this turns out to be true, like if Edge really considers himself to be family to Kal, why isn’t he wearing the symbol of the House of El or something like it on his super suit? We’ve still got 6 episodes left, so I’m sure we’re in for plenty more answers and big reveals
I’m also theorizing that if Clark’s response to Edge isn’t something along the lines of “I don’t have a brother. My only surviving family from Krypton here on Earth is my cousin, Kara Zor-El,” then I’m gonna get even more frustrated at this show’s lack of Supergirl acknowledgement
I actually am on the side to want him to be reduced in power for as much of the remaining season as possible. Sometimes I have felt that when they were in a tight spot or needed some help, John would be the plot point to push the story forward. Need to get out of the situation the writers put them in, have him do a spell and take care of it.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I loved the spells he would seemingly pull out all the time. But sometimes it seemed like a crutch he would use, as he would do it to do simple things such as apparently keeping his clothes clean and finding his secret stash of smokes. I think this will be great on his journey as a character. He already started the season happier than he has been and in love. Now it will be great to see he is not all powerful and may even fail from time to time as he builds himself back up. It will also be better able to show him being a mentor to Astra and redeeming the fact that he sent her to spend her childhood in Hell.
I think this was a great decision. We have seen how he has struggled to control what has been happening lately, especially with his recent bout with addiction. Do we know exactly who injected him to start? Because I was wondering if it was not the False Face society if maybe it was some of these rogue Crows looking to take him out of their way. This would make sense knowing how they can fabricate evidence and doctor footage. Then again I think they found the drugs in his garbage and then started using it against him.
Now, I still think there should have been maybe a little more time before he completely dissolved them. They were building to it with his best agent leaving and then seeing how the rogue Crows were being so corrupt, so it still made sense. Considering they previously had another cop bending the rules prior to all this, it might be too much and the press was against the Crows from when they tried to go after Batwoman and for other reasons that came out.
Oh and they need to get rid of the Desert Rose because it is becoming the Lazarus Pit of this show. It removes some of the worry and peril. I had forgotten about it when Luke got shot, but then saw it in this episode and I am like but of course. I enjoyed the scenes where Bruce Wayne was talking to Luke in his subconscious but kept Lucius in shadow. In my mind I envision him as Morgan Freeman which would have been a cool cameo to get but no. We never see his face.
I felt it was about the right time for him to leave. But can we talk about the cold shoulder Barry and Caitlin were giving to him. I know they were trying to put on a brave face but that was some serious acting. Heck Flash even packed up his stuff and ready to go. I could have done without that aspect of the sendoff. I knew they would come around to the emotional scenes and goodbyes, but I really hated them for how they acted in the first half of the episode. Chester had more emotion as he went down memory lane with Cisco’s lab.
I did enjoy the callback to the first episode with the Poker Face karaoke with the original team (minus Wells) and Joe. That was so funny and showed the actors having a good time. The only thing missing was seeing Wells one more time. I know the actor is slated for a couple more performances so it would be great to see him say goodbye to Cisco, as they had such a father son relationship on the show.
Hmmm, favorite moments with Cisco…any of the times he came up with the meta’s codenames. He took such joy in naming them, and I remember times when he disliked names they gave themselves. I also liked any of the scenes between him and Wells, as they really grew on each other and I remember when Wells was so proud of Cisco for who he became. Oh and I liked the episode where he was stuck in a timeloop, so he learned everything about Kamilla beforehand similar to one of my favorite movies, Groundhog Day.
I believe that he is actually another Kryptonian who came at same time as Clark did. He created his secret identity of Morgan Edge similar to Clark Kent. He built up his empire and bided his time to create his army so he would not be alone (but why he did not seek out Clark or Kara?!?!) He is like Superman if he were Lex Luthor. The others are souls of Kryptonians being implanted into humans, but I believe he is the real deal. I did enjoy the theory that the reason Smallville is so special is the long term exposure to the X-Kryptonite made them able to accept it more than other places.
Also, I found it interesting that Sarah’s dad seemed to still sort of be in control of himself more than the others, but maybe he was turned later? Is anyone else waiting for a name Kryptonian to come up like Zod?
I also like the gradual introduction of the powers for Jordan such as being sick leading to cold breath, with a scientific explanation for how it works (compressing so much more air as a superpowerful person that it actually cools it like an air conditioner). “Like having a stick of wintergreen gum in my mouth all the time” Good explanation.
S&L - converted Kyle was a nice surprise. As far as Edge’s real identity is concerned, I want to overthink the ‘k’ misspelling in the episode’s title.
Flash - Another save with talking. Weird. But overall, it feels like the right kind of send off. It is a big deal and it isn’t. A passing of the keys/torch to Chester. It’s summed up in the way Cisco and Kamilla say they are leaving at the same time.
Regardless of whether or not he returns to his full power, this is definitely a prime opportunity for John to learn how to not rely on his powers quite as much and instead hone in on or develop other skills to supplement his magic. It’d also make sense from the perspective of not wanting to feel this powerless in case something like this happens again
I’m pretty sure it was still False Face from the start, but Tavaroff and his crew found out about right when they were about to kill Jacob
I just assumed that they used up the last of it when they saved Ryan from the kryptonite poisoning, but I guess they were able to grab a seed from it or only use a little bit at once. I do agree that it shouldn’t be an easy get out of jail free card to keep using. They didn’t mention that this was the last of it, so maybe just use it 1 more time to finish up the supply
One last Cisco-Wells interaction in the season finale would definitely be pretty satisfying
I think this would support “Edge” coming to Earth much later and seeing that Kal and Kara had already sided w/ humanity, and so there would’ve been less reasoning w/ either of them, hence his perceived need for this secret plan
That was a pretty strange decision. Was it actually relevant to the story (K for Krypton?) or did they just take a page out of Mortal Kombat’s book and add in an extra K to make it look cooler?
This was a very welcome surprise. If they’re not gonna give us an answer on where Bruce actually is anytime soon, at least they can still keep utilizing Warren Christie in ways like this
For this episode she was Forker, and when she uses her big knife, she’s Knifer
I’m really not sure about this one, either. Red Son and stories like it specifically involve Kal landing somewhere else besides Smallville, and considering this Kal has already had the traditional origin and we’re not dealing w/ pretty much an exact clone like we did in Supergirl, I feel like they’d have to jump through a lot of hoops to make that work given the current circumstances
To use a reference from CoIE, Luke is more Geek Team. but if this incident is his “bad day”, we can expect more training, but as Bat Wing, he will be joining the Sky Team. I was almost pulling for Sophie or Julia to be the Wing. Maybe on of them can go Signal?