Unpopular opinion, but I have always enjoyed batman lying to everyone, and to me since no one got hurt, batman and his people’s actions are totally justified. Yeah they are a little shady, but they’re the reason many kids have heroes to look up to. The outsiders have become a phenomenon among meta teens and all that would not be possible without those “shady” transactions. Barbara said that batman should consider that it’s not the team’s mission but his, but who cares whose mission it is when they are all benefitting. Like it or not, the process is made much faster this way.
In short, batman would totally do it again, and I support that.
I like this perspective, @TheLegndKillerX! It’s a really interesting way to view a complicated situation. One aspect that Young Justice is repeatedly touching on is that the heroes aren’t just fighting evil, they’re fighting bad press. Batman isn’t doing what he’s doing just because he can, he’s manipulating people and events because Lex is doing the same. If Lex wins in the public eye, they will continue to lose public support.
I can definitely see that!
Personally, though, I am siding more with Wonder Woman. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that both Lex and Batman have said, in private, the exact same statement about knowing and proving. It’s definitely alluding to the fact that Lex and Batman are two sides of the same coin, using the exact same tactics for the exact same reason, just with different end goals.
My worry is if Batman’s manipulation won’t blow up in his face, because Batman has a lot more to lose if his manipulation goes public. A politician manipulating situations in the DC universe isn’t anything new and no one really trusts Lex, including the peop le working for him. But Batman’s teams rely on trust. If not to him, to the agents that he employs. His team consists of foreign ambassadors, team leaders, friends, and relatives who are regularly using their connections against the knowledge of those that trust and rely on them. I worry what would happen if everyone knew what was going on behind the scenes.
@Zatanna Agreed. The only flaw to me is if batman’s actions go public, which would be a disaster but the heroes, to me, should know better than to potentially leak this. Also, the danger is really that batman could end up being corrupted by doing such but to me batman’s conviction to his beliefs his enough to trust him. He could be bad, but so could heroes. Heroes and villains after all both use powers but for differing reasons, so I see it as much a threat as heroes going bad. Sometimes leaders have to make behind the scenes decisions for everyone’s benefit that if were available to everyone would cause too much friction.
That’s another really good point. I suppose a part of my question, then, is whether the risk was worth the reward. Did Batman have to manipulate The Outsiders, for example? They were already independently run and had their own goals, which he co-opted to use in his media war with Lex.
This is a really interesting topic and I just can’t wait to see more opinions.
Absolutely agreed. The show seems to be saying that the act of lying is in and of itself immoral on a scale comparable to the Light’s actions. Batman actively discredited the Light’s front man and exposed the fact that there’s a mole in the Outsiders. Meanwhile, Beast Boy pats himself on the back because his hashtag is trending. If lying stops a bunch of alien monster gods from enslaving teenagers, then yeah, lying is good.
Though I will say that I don’t like what this season has done with Batman. A lot of portrayals of him are all “Ooh! Look! Isn’t he such a cool, edgy loner who doesn’t play by the rules, because he’s all manipulative and stuff!” and the first two seasons of YJ balanced that out by writing him as someone who, while as quiet, serious, broody, and prone to sneaky plans as you’d expect, genuinely does value and care about his allies. Here, with his walking out on the League, forming his little Anti-Light, and doing all these schemes, while I, personally, think his actions are reasonable, I think the writers want us to think he’s going too far and being, well, a cool, edgy loner who doesn’t play by the rules and is all manipulative and stuff.
@Batjamas Thank you. Parents lie to babies all the time, just to stop them crying. It’s not that big a deal, the lie helps create peace and that’s what batman is doing
No one got hurt? Did you see Jefferson’s and Gar’s reactions? This isn’t just lying for the greater good, this is a betrayal of the trust placed in Batman by friends and impressionable proteges. I think it’s pretty telling that Bruce is trying this while Superman and Wonder Woman are worlds away.
Now, with that said, is it any worse than Dick, Kaldur, Wally and Artemis faking her death and allowing EVERYONE to think she was dead for months? Nope. But for a group of people that learned in Season One that keeping secrets and lying only leads to pain and suffering (and possible mind-wipes), they sure do make the same mistakes over and over again.
I get Jefferson being angry, he was trying to quit the life because it got too much, then was approached by Dick for a “one last favor” that turned into him becoming Bruce and Dick’s puppet. Gar, though, he should be grateful that he has a puppet master. Otherwise, the Outsiders would’ve fallen apart long ago because he’s just not much of a leader.
So, TheLegndKillerX is right. This is “Young Justice Batman” and I’m not diggin this portrayal of him. We all know Batman is a Vigilante, he’s Not a Superhero. He’s not a Superman or Wonder Woman . He’s a VIGILANTE. seems in this Universe no one knows or understands that. Guess in YJ he’s a by the book version Batman? I’m used to watching/reading him do the craziest and at times unexpected/unethical things to get the mission accomplished. We saw him spy on all of Gotham to find the Joker in The Dark Knight. Invading everyones privacy! When I saw the scene where it all comes together for Jefferson, I was like: Dude this is what Batman does! Lets stop arguing and get to work . C’mon at least Bruce feels some remorse. I’m feeling he’s a younger in this Universe and really hasn’t done all the controversial things yet:roll_eyes:.