I personally think DC Comics is better than Marvel.
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Dc will be around for a very long time they have the most popular characters. Marvel needed movies to make most of their characters popular. No disrespect to marvel and not that they’ve had popular characters without movies. But the reason marvel is more popular is because of their movies. And now that dc is now staring to competing with them on movies there is no way Marvel will be buying them. Love both tho but I prefer DC
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Marvel has been outselling pretty much every other publisher in unit shares since June 1987. This is as far back as Diamond tracking goes. I’m not defending Marvel. Their film success freaks me out a bit. I don’t think their success is limited to films though.
As an example, in February 1992, just as Image launched…
Marvel sold 20 of the top 25 comics that month. It seems naïve to think their success will be short lived and exists just because of the films.
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“Failing” is all relative. What curve is DCU being graded on?
Do we love this app? Yes. Do the DCU Original shows deliver? Absolutely. So most of us would agree, DC is not failing.
But what would Netflix pay to license Titans, Doom Patrol, Young Justice, Harley Quinn, and Stargirl all to be exclusive for them?
They paid $40M a season for their 4 Marvel street-level shows. So the opportunity cost of holding onto these DCU Originals is well north of $100M, maybe $200M a year. I doubt all of us subscribing to DCU at $75 a year are adding up to $100M, so this is not a success in the sense that AT&T is making the best bang for their buck.
But “failing” doesn’t mean they would shut it all down. The content is too valuable. Even if HBO Max fails, they would license to a Netflix or Hulu. And if they were to ever sell DC, it would be for more than the $4B Disney paid for Marvel. Remember that when Disney bought Marvel, that was before Avengers 1 came out - the biggest Marvel movies hadn’t even happened yet. And they didn’t even own the film rights to X-Men, Spider-Man, or Fantastic Four and more - DC has given up no rights.
The most likely alternative would just be to make sure someone pays them a boatload of money so we can watch the content SOMEWHERE. They’re giving HBO Max the old college try too, but I would bet the farm that DCU will be its own production company churning out shows for a very long time.
I hope we are here on DCU for a long time and it runs smoothly alongside HBO Max, but DC characters and shows will outlive all of us.
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Marvel sells well yes…but not always enough and id like to see a source and numbers on how they have consistently outsold other publishers. The reason they had to pay to get the rights back to properties like xmen is because they sold them to avoid bankruptcy. They still dont have (fully) spiderman and hulk in house, so what you’re saying is coounter intuitive to those facts. But i could be wrong, i just never have heard someone claim that marvel out sells publishers consistently. I also read an article on how marvel hurts comic book shops by making them purchase a high volume of bulk comics thus inflating their numbers so i dont always trust the stats. I did hear that DC was about to follow suit though.
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I couldnt agree more with your assessment that the internet likes to put down DC, as to why, idk. I hate it though. I love all comics and will read any good story but DC has turned into my favorite publisher this last year, mainly due to this app. A lot of, “comic book” fans are really just movie fans masquerading as a legit reader, i would know, i was one of them 
. Its wasnt until i read the source material that i realized how great all comics are. I will literally unfollow or block any channel or site that i feel is being biased towards one pub or another. As comic book fans, we can stop this by not clicking, getting our news here or from a reputable source. No need to fuel the flames. DC has done a wonderful job giving the fans this app, i really feel like this is a place i can turn to to hold down my fandom.
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Sure. Check out https://www.comichron.com/ for monthly order totals. It’s partial going back until 1987. Diamond record keeping improved as time went on. By 1998 they were pretty on top of things.
I never claimed they were managing their money well. Marvel had a terrible business model in the 90’s. We can sit here and discuss their poor money management all day, that doesn’t change the fact that they’ve maintained higher sales. Never anything crazy, but notable.
You’ll see data gaps in 96 & 97 because Marvel purchased their own distribution company and there are no sales records for those years with Diamond. This distribution endeavor (and failure) combined with an industry slump resulted in bankruptcy. It wasn’t a result of poor sales.
By the time Disney bought them (for $4 billion and change) they were doing much better than when they sold distribution rights. Also, considering they didn’t have a parent company that produced movies (like DC with WB) selling the rights was, and still is, pretty common place for any publisher.
As far as bulk ordering…I don’t know. I’m not an industry insider. Marvel might’ve been nasty like that.
I know that as a comic reader in the 80’s and 90’s and a frequent comic shop attendee I can share what I experienced. I read 60% Marvel, 30% DC, and 10% image. Keeping in mind I was a kid and only had money for maybe 15 titles a month. I remember locally way more Marvel titles sold than DC. Especially X titles and Spidey titles.
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I do see your point, but respectively when comparing Marvel TV shows to DC TV shows in the modern era (arguably any era honestly) DC has been schooling them for decades. Just looking at right now…
The Arrowverse has bcome the TV equivalent of the MCU. There is group that yells from their echo chamber it is failing based on some made up metric they created retroactively so they can believe it is. But it has 6 shows out right now, one that just got ended after an 8 season run and it was the first to be ended. And all of them save arrow are getting another season.
Gotham without the Arrowverse connection lasted 5 season and was a hit show.
Even the lesser “big” shows based on DC have done well. IZombie ran for 5 seasons, Luciver has been picked up for into 6 seasons once on Netflix, Preacher had 4. The only real black eye they have had in terms of DC seasons on cable or network TV is Krypton which did not do well in season 2 and killed plans for a lobo show, although even then SyFy was very happy with season 1.
And on the streaming end. Yes Swamp thing was cancelled. But since a month after DCU launched they have almost consistently had ongoing programing. Titans will get at least 3 seasons the first two of 11 and 12 episodes. Doom Patrol got a 15 episode first season and got picked up for a seasn 2, Young Justice Got a second season on DCU and their first season was 26 episodes. Stargirl is coming and will get at least 13 episodes. Harley Quinn got a 13 episode first season and got picked up for a second season. Hell by most accounts even DC Universe AlL Star Games is doing well for what it is. And they have two more shows set to launch (Bizarro TV and DCYou). That is 9 shows and 4 of the 5 that already launched got picked up for more seasons. Swamp Thing is actually the exception so far, not the rule. Hell people said “That’s it mark my word these shows are DONE” then everything else out by that point got another season.
So on Marvel’s end. Well Agents of Sheild got six seasons although with several long hiatuses and let’s be honest, that show has been running on MCU fumes. Hardly anyone talks about it really. More people knew Swamp Thing was cancelled then knew if Agents of Sheild was still on the air.
What else do they even have on Network TV or even streaming? Runaways got 3 seasons then was cancelled. Cloak and Dagger got two seasons with little talk of it and it is cancelled. Agent Carter got 2 seasons and Netflix didn’t even want to air the past seasons.
Yeah the Netflix Defenders shows got a lot of buzz and I would assume at least at first lots of views. But by three or four years that entire franchise was done with four shows cancelled. Peple want to say that Disney pulled them to keep everything off Netflix but by all acounts including both sides Netflix cancelled them. So they shined bright for three years while half the DC shows mentioned above saw them come and go during their run.
Now the Disney+ series… well comparing them is hard since they are not out. people are making claims like Marvel will have two shows at once on Disney+ and DCU won’t… but that isn’t actually true.
The MCU shows will be six episodes a piece, it is a lot longer before eve one launches and then it will be over in a month and a half with a long wait to the next one. The number of shows we have heard about on Disney+ is almost equal to how many DCU has right now and it will still be around 2 or 3 years before all of them are out with their six episodes a piece. DC Universe despite being a smaller service took until DC Universe All Star Games to even have a show run six episodes or less. Yeah sure the production values will be better but then again more people have Disney+ so why wouldn’t they.
But not like DC is lying down on streaming shows even without the DCU shows. Since they announced Green Lantern and Strange Adventures already. Plus that hero high or whatever it is called so three live action shows. They won’t be on at launch but neither are the Marvel shows.
And since we are talking about DC and Marvel shows real quick as far as past shows.
DC shows in the past have consisted of Smallville which is still the longest running comic book based show ever by quite a bit over anyone else. Lois and Clark which was a hit and ran for 4 years. They had the 66 batman, the 50s Superman, Swamp Thing was a hit on USA Network and ran for 4 years. Superboy was a hit in syndication and ran for 100 episodes. And even one seasons wonders like Constantine and The Flash from the 90’s have gained cult followings. And Wonder Woman was a huge hit in the 70’s. Shazam ran for 3 seasons on Saturday Moning when most shows don’t get past 1 season.
What shows in the past can Marvel boast? Yeah they did The Incredible Hulk which I think was one of the best comic book based shows ever. But beyond that? Spider-Man? Weapon X? Blade? Never mind some of the horible movie pilors and direct to video movies they have as black eyes on their past. And I am not really trying to cherry pick, I know that is not everything and not like Birds of Prey or Human target are any bigger achievements (the latter failed on TV twice).
But if you objectively compare Marvel’s history with TV series to DC;'s history with TV series in my opinion it doesn’t compare. DC has long been outperfoming Marvel on the TV landscape with brief moments from Marvel but then again in the 70’s for Incredible Hulk DC did Wonder Woman, for the Netflix Defenders shows DC had the Arrowverse which did what Marvel set out to with more long term success and arguably more success in general.
Honestly, the fact so many seem t think Marvel is schooling DC in how to make TV shows on their properties work is proof that people have an ingrained bias, because personal taste are personal taste, but objectively Marvel wishes they could have DC’s success with TV.
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@DanTheManOne1 I don’t watch enough tv to weigh in. I’m just talking about print. I’m just here for the comics, man.
P.S. I do form opinions based on money spent on endeavors.
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I never got into a ton of “popular” Marvel titles in recent years to be honest. I always picked small, self contained runs and haven’t read any Marvel since Civil War 2 when I was so tired from event fatigue.
I do and still love most of the Daredevil runs, Ennis’ Punisher, Brubaker’s Captain America, Priest’s Black panther, etc. I’m sure there are many I’m forgetting.
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Indeed. Marvel has been body slamming people in terms of comics sales for a long time. Frankly, I think it is because they over saturate the market lol
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I really think Marvel got popular because of it’s movies, and not It’s comics like DC did.
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Isn’t that true of everything in this medium though? Batman became a household name because of 1966 show and the reruns that followed. Many of the cartoons capitalized off of that initial buzz.
Hell, it took Michael Uslan a long time to pitch the 89 movie because everyone was confused of a Batman that wasn’t technicolor with BOOM! and POW! In it.
If you ask many people how they first got exposed to a certain character, they’d probably mention TV or movies. This makes sense since it reaches a broader audience.
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Superman (1978) for me.
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Oh my goodness, I keep thinking you are my age. 1992 Batman Animated Series for me. I saw the 89 Batman many years later after my father bought it on VHS.
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That is pretty true. I did learn a lot of Marvel and DC characters from watching tv and movies.
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I liked Superfriends.
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I’ve been around a sec. I was already an avid comic fan when Batman 89 was released. I was so excited! The last couple of movies based on comics (Superman IV, Howard the Duck) hadn’t been so great.
Edit: I’m gonna be quiet now. The whole time I have been in this discussion I thought it was in the Iceberg Lounge.
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I see the numbers you’re referring to but digging a little deeper, i think its a little more complicated than what this site is showing. First, the percentages might show marvel outselling but when you look at the actual diamond numbers, DC only missed by a few less sales. In one case the market sahre was a 7% difference with litterally 7 units less sold by DC. Also, we have to account for the fact that in some years DC did have less titles. It appears that neither pub is really gaining traction over the other, in my eyes thats good, a more tightly competitive venture is always good for the customer.
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People disagree with data. That is why I shared my own personal experience. Over my years as a comic collector in shops I have seen Marvel outsell DC. This doesn’t mean that Marvel is better. It doesn’t mean the DC is worse. It just means that that is what I’ve observed. My time as a fan supports the data…regionally.
Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about this more.
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