Superman Red Son Movie Discussion *Spoilers*

General Discussion Movies & TV
,
21

I think it is true that normally just a direct translation of comic to movie won’t work. The forms are very different. The only reason I think COIE might work is that it is so dense. There are so many characters and so much action and the stakes are so high.

I actually was impressed with what CW did with COIE. They had to adapt it to their universe(s) so I knew it wasn’t going to be the comics COIE. They paid a lot of homage to all the DC tv that came before the CWVERSE. Seeing Earth-90 Barry Allan (JWS) get to complete a 20+ year arc, and fulfill the prophecy that Barry Allen must die as part of COIE was great. I know a lot of people seemed upset about Kevin Conroy’s Batman, but it was a great call, IMO. Not only was it a way to reinforce why Batman has the “no murder” rule, because if he crosses that line, he won’t come back, but they used it to sneak in their callback to The Adventures of Superman. Conroy’s description of Superman was word for word pulled from the intro to that show. And, I don’t care what anybody says, Marv Wolfman asking for the autographs of Flash and Supergirl is the single funniest thing I’ve seen on tv in a while. Marv totally stole the show!!! I think that the fact that the writing team was smart enough to bring Marv in really helped the pacing and the plot. The way they handled the Spectre thing was meh. In fact most of the Oliver stuff was meh. However, overall I was impressed at how good it was. No CW show is going to be BBC Shakespeare quality. So i go in knowing what those shows are, that they are their own continuity from the comic books. Which isn’t bad, it’s a function of the type of storytelling they are doing.

I’m glad Arrow is over, it‘s been running on fumes for its last season and half.
I figure flash has got two more seasons left.
Black Lightning is always on the cusp of cancellation. It is way more family drama than superhero show. It is what it is, but I’m not sure how much more mileage it has left. One season, maybe two.
Supergirl is just gonna depend on what quality “villain” of the week they can come up with. Leviathan as the “big bad” this season didn’t work for me.
Batwoman I think stands a chance of getting better with Rose gone. It was really obvious in the last 3 eoisides just how much she didn’t want to be there. It has the best villain of all thecCW shows in Alice.
I adore LOT. My hands down favorite. Why? Because they don’t take the overly serious. It’s a fun romp of a show. And they are more than willing to “take the pi$$” out if just about every superhero troupe in the book. I hope this is Matt Ryan’s last season on the ship. His arc will have run its course, and he could move over to the JLD series HBOMAX is doing.

Ok…getting back to Red Son, I think when looking at the runtime they have to work on and I’m sure their budgets are very low compared to theirs live action counterparts. They need to adapt. It’s just an aspect of the medium. I actually liked Hush, & making Riddler the villain was a good call, otherwise it would have needcabout another 30-40 minutes to get all of the Tommy Backstory, faking his death, etc. and since it was taking place in the DCAU continuity, it wasn’t like they were going to use Hush again. So making the changes th Ery did makes sense.

I love the animated movies. They are of better quality than the live action. Does that mean they take liberties with source material. Sure, but it makes them interesting as they are taking core concepts and telling a similar but different story than the books. I’m hoping they do more original elseworlds like JL: Gods and Monsters. Also take some of the chatacters they’venused in the shorts and give them their own features.

2 Likes
22
  1. I loved it
  2. Yes I have, twice, and I own but currently a friend is borrowing it.
  3. I liked how they mixed Ultraman with Bizzaro, and Superiorman was a proud American. Batman being underground with his dead parents made it more understandable for his hatred for Superman.
  4. I did not like how they left out the scene when Superman realized he’s become the very he was fighting against. I thought that was a very powerful moment in the comic.
  5. Assuming you mean stories in general for the man of steel, I would love to see one for American alien and for all seasons.
2 Likes
23

so what are superman stories that you like?

1 Like
24

@American-Alien What a fantastic question! If I had to pick a top five off the top of my head, it’d probably look like this:

Superman: Secret Identity- It came out around the same time as Red Son, and out of the two of them, this one got more of a reaction out of me. It’s about a guy in our world named Clark Kent who grew up with people constantly reminding him he’s named after Superman. He gets Superman stuff for his birthday (even when he reaches an age when it’s no longer cute for him). One day he wakes up to find he has the powers of Superman. What does that do to a person? Think of it as what Superboy Prime could’ve been without Crisis on Infinite Earths or what became of the character down the road. It’s an incredible story with a lot of heart and shows you that anyone has the capacity to be Superman.

World Without Superman - This is the middle part of the Death and Return of Superman story. And while I love those two parts, there’s something about this middle act that really gets me. We see how the world reacts to the death of Superman, particularly those close to Clark. This is a fantastic story where the supporting players really get to shine. If you’re not crying at the phone conversation between Lois and the Kents, I don’t know what to tell you.

Superman: Secret Origin - Geoff Johns gives an origin that has a little of everything. We get some Superboy scenes, sure, but when Clark gets to Metropolis, that’s when it really takes off. While Gary Frank’s art is incredible, what keeps me coming back to this story is how organic it feels. They include Parasite and Metallo without it feeling like an overstuffed superhero movie (a la, Batman Forever, Spider-Man 3 and The Amazing Spider-Man 2), they give us a taste of what this Luthor is like (it’s still the rich business man, but you see the sway he has on Metropolis before Superman arrives and how that fades after Superman appears) and we more of that fun Clark and Lois dynamic. If I were going to give a comic to someone with the barest knowledge of Superman, I would give them this. It’s wonderful and very accessible.

Action Comics # 792 - This is more of a Clark Kent focused story. A newstand vendor has gone missing and his daughter has come to Clark to ask him for help. Needless to say the ending hits you hard, and let that be a testament to Joe Kelly’s writing. The story itself hit me on an emotional level, but I also love it when we get stories about Clark the reporter. I feel like some writers either don’t know how to tackle that or don’t want to. To some, Clark is just a disguise and a device for Superman to do the shirt rip. When writers take the time to tell stories about Clark Kent the reporter, it gives us more insight to who Clark is as a person and just why it’s important for him to have a life outside of Superman.

The New Krypton Saga- This one is a dark horse, but I think it’s an excellent overall story. From the Superman side of things, we have someone who just found out an entire group of his race not only survived Krypton’s destruction, but is also still alive. When Clark releases the Kandorians, you feel for him. That connection to Krypton (outside of The Eradicator and Zod) is no longer a wish he makes. It’s here. And then watching how that gets corrupted when Zod is released from the Phantom Zone and becomes New Krypton’s military, is incredible. Clark makes the decision to leave Earth for a time so he can go to New Krypton and keep an out on Zod. There’s some interesting stuff in there. The Mon-El, Supergirl and Chris Kent/ Thara Ak-Var segments of New Krypton were excellent, too. It’s an underrated run.

To answer your question, these are some of the Superman stories I like. You can go in so many interesting directions with Superman. For me, Red Son isn’t a bad Superman story, but it’s not one I would say should stand amongst the greats. But, I also acknowledge that’s just my personal opinion. There’s a few stories that people hold up as greats that I don’t like, but it’s not for me to take that away from them the same way I wouldn’t want them to take anything away from these stories that I’ve listed.

1 Like
25

I found it to be a 3 of five. Disappointing, but I liked it.

1 Like
26

the stories I’ve haven’t read are; World Without superman, action comics 792, the new Krypton Saga.

Edit: I’ll read those eventually

I read the secret origin and Secret identity. Both were great, i recommended secret identity to a friend and she loved it. I did enjoy secret origin but I personally think American alien, birthright, and for all seasons are better.

1 Like
27

That’s cool. Those are some of your favorites. I don’t think it’s a question of which is “better” or not, but which spoke to you personally and had an impact on you. It seems these stories have had an impact on you and that’s the best thing to hear!

2 Likes
28

Gee, well thanks…i wasn’t trying to say they’re better than secret origin i was just trying to say i enjoyed said list more than secret origin. Sorry if I came out wrong.

1 Like
29

No worries AT ALL! I like that you have an eclectic taste in your Superman stories!

I wasn’t a big fan of Birthright when it came out. But I borrowed it from the library a few years ago and was able to see it as it’s own contained story rather than the reboot it was intended to be. I actually enjoyed it more the second time around! If they were to make this an animated movie, I’d definitely check it out.

3 Likes
36

I enjoyed the movie, never read the comic, but I always enjoy the Elseworlds stories where Supermans ship land somewhere else and we get to see how different he is when not raised by the Kents. That being said I really want to see a adaptation of Superman: Speeding Bullets, which for those unfamiliar is an Elseworlds story wherein Supermans ship lands in Gotham and he is found and raised by Thomas and Martha Wayne, who name him Bruce they’re then killed in an Alley which causes him to use his heat vision and he discovers his powers. So it’s an amalgamation of Superman and Batman.

3 Likes
37

i thought it was mostly great and maybe better then the comic book mini-series it is based on :ok_hand: :+1:

1 Like
38

How is that implied? He went in for a kiss. If he was asexual, he wouldn’t have shown any attraction to Diana at all.

2 Likes
39

The only reason he did that was because he initially thought that’s what Diana expected him to do. He also calls it a “relief” when she says she’s gay and that he doesn’t even want a mate. But then again, he also says that sex is “pleasant enough,” even if it’s hardly his biggest concern. It’s certainly interesting to discuss, I just don’t think going in for a kiss in that context was enough to discredit the idea

4 Likes
40

The end was much more satisfying and less confusing this time. Superman really did live in ignorance if he thought the Soviet way brought peace. It has really only ever brought greed. I can understand his desire to make it perfect. But he shouldn’t have confused his desire for peace with the subjugation he offered the world.
It really was riveting to watch. But I can’t help but feel Batman should have won. He really wanted freedom for his country. He shouldn’t have killed the innocent for it. That didn’t help his cause.
I guess this movie really shows that Superman is a powerful force for good. But even he can be blinded by his own wants and desires. I prefer my good, old fashioned red, yellow and blue. That Superman is all about Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

1 Like
41

I really loved this film. I was honestly surprised how much I enjoyed watching it because the comic wasn’t one that ever stood out to me and I really had no interest in watching the film before it landed on DCU. Yet, it may just be one of my all time favorite DC animated films.

It really made me reflect on what the character of Superman symbolizes. The description of, “truth, justice, and the American way,” is inseparable with the character. It’s mentioned everywhere (including this thread), and yet this story made me question whether or not that’s true. Does Superman truly reflect the American way of life, or do we (the audience) manipulate his sense of morals, heroism, and nobility into reflecting what we imagine the American way to be.

I know the ending of the film shows the success of America and our “capitalist” ways, but the rest of the film is pretty critical of capitalism (just as much as it is a critique of communism). The way it can lead to greed, being self-centered, and lacking empathy of those around us. The way those who govern under it manipulate it so they can benefit off those they represent without most people even realizing it. This all is a critique of the phrase, “the American Way,” which we place on Superman. Because he’s actually the exact opposite of this.

He instead embodies everything we WISH the American way would be. So, instead, we should drop that title and simply attribute him as a symbol of truth and justice. Obviously, communism is no better, but this was my biggest take away from the story.

Now how much of that can actually be attributed to the film instead of the comic? I’m not sure since it’s been a while since I’ve read it, but the film is still great on it’s own merits. It’s got great pacing and character development (something most of these adaptations lack), gorgeous animation, good voice acting, and so much more. As a film, it stands on its own. It’s definitely up there for me. :smile:

4 Likes
42

Just finished watching this. I loved it. It is a great Elseworlds story about if you just change where Clark’s ship landed, would he still be the same?

I haven’t read the comic, but I’ve added it to my list to read now.

I think what I enjoyed most about this movie is that even in such a short time span for a movie, we got so much character development. We saw Superman grow up, saw Batman’s beginning and end, Diana grow into her decisions and Lex be the crazy genius he is. I feel like there are some full length movies that don’t get that much in and do it this well.

I don’t think I can pick one part I liked the best. I just loved the whole thing. I wasn’t sure what to expect from this movie, but I loved every minute.

2 Likes
43

Sure I’m not the first to post, but just watched it. Wow! Definitely one DC’s best animated movies.

2 Likes
44

So I just read and watched Red Son. I loved the comic and liked the movie. I just wish they had kept a bit more in and didn’t change Wonder Woman’s motivations so much. I didn’t mind the lack of attraction to supes but I did miss the motivation of betrayal and the slight of Superman’s character in that he had just used their friendship as a means to an end. I also rather missed the real detail of Lex’s plot and the letter. My god I wish they had kept the letter. Still though. I enjoyed it.

1 Like
45

Agreed. I really wish they kept more detail of Lex’s plot and the letter. I also wanted to see a bit more of Batman (especially the sewer scene). Overall, I felt the movie was like a standalone movie and less of an adaptation of the comic. There was so much detail and plot that was left out in the movie that we see in the comics. But I thoroughly enjoyed the movie and the comic. The music was also really good.

1 Like