Snyder's Batman Is Way OP

General Discussion Comic Books
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I was talking to someone about Snyder’s Batman being OP, and they suggested that Bats wasn’t overpowered in the Court of Owls story. I reread it, disagree and thought it would make for a good threat, so let’s recap the nonsense in Court of Owls

Batman 1

Batman successfully fights Mr. Freeze, Two-Face, Professor Pyg, Clayface, Riddler, Killer Croc, Scarecrow and the Ventriloquist simultaneously with nothing more than smoke pellets and fists.

Batman 2

Batman gets stabbed through the arm by a Talon and continues to fight just fine. He later gets stabbed deeply in the shoulders., falls dozens of stories, catches himself on a gargoyle instead of splattering and then continues his regular Bat activities as if nothing happened.

Batman 3.

Batman uses a Bat-Electromagnet Creator to pin a group of metal mask wearing thugs onto a train.

Issue 4

Batman hits a tripwire and tanks an explosion powerful enough to destroy an entire floor of a skyscraper around him and blow fire out the top of the building even though the floor that blew up was not on the top floor. Batman runs away during the explosion and uses a pocket laser smaller than a pen to nigh instantly cut a hole in an exterior wall. Later, Batman gets his head shoved through a concrete wall and falls what appears to be a long distance.

Issue 5 - Issue 6

Batman goes without food eight days and gets a sword stabbed through his back and out his belly. He is then badly beaten and kicked through marble wall. Batman spontaneously rallies and kicks the Talon’s butt barehanded and escapes the supposedly inescapable prison, lands in a deep water cave and swims out of the cave to a frozen body of water where he is trapped in freezing water under the ice and then passes out.

Batman 7

Harper revives Batman by electric shock. No explanation is given how Batman got out of the body of water while unconscious and being trapped by a wall of ice. A little later, Batman concludes that because Nightwing’s grandfather was a Talon Nightwing must have also been intended as a Talon, so Batman backhands Nightwing knocking out exactly the right one of Dick’s teeth that just so happens to contain the mark of the Court of Owls.

Batman 8

Even though Batman struggled multiple times to fight a single Talon and has suffered what should have been fatal wounds many times through this story, Batman fights off at least four Talons (probably more) simultaneously unarmed and unarmored. Batman eventually gets in a Bat Mech to fight Talons. Bat Mechs might seem common now but they were extremely rare before Snyder.

Batman 9

Despite having no time to prep the mech for battle, Batman’s Bat Mech just happens to have freezing batarangs allowing batman to exploit Talons’ one weakness, cold

Batman 10

This issue is fine.

Batman 11

Batman continues to fight as if he shouldn’t already be dead several times over from previous wounds. He gets thrown through a brick wall, slammed into several things at flying velocity, holds a conversation with an enemy while just feet away from a turbine engine, falls from plane flying height to the ground and catches himself on a Bat rope and then outruns another series of explosions which starts at his feet.

Anybody else have OP Snyder Batman moments?

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I see your point.

Issue 1 feels more like an excuse to see brand new New 52 designs for villains than an actual plot point

I believe him defeating the talon in issue 6 isn’t that much of an issue. I can believe Batman went into a frenzy and was able to fight his way out. Afterwards he just barely escapes and, in a later issue, panics at the sight of a talon because his encounter.

I thought that Harper Row was the one who dragged him out of the water after Batman passed out, but I’m not sure it’s explicitly stated in issue 7.

Overall, I think the OP moments are balanced out by all the the very not OP moments. Not knowing about the Court of Owls, refusing to even think about their existence, being captured by the Court of Owls, going crazy in the Labyrinth, barely escaping the Labyrinth, almost dying in the water after escaping the Labyrinth and only surviving because of someone finding him, having a breakdown upon seeing a talon… I think it all balances out.

But if we’re talking about other OP Snyder moments… defeating the entire Justice League in Endgame. As much of a Batman fan as I am, there’s no way Batman should be able to do that.

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And I also really don’t like those “let me just whip out my magic bat-electromagnetic” moments.

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I one hundred percent agree with you. That nonsense is also exactly the reason why I love Snyder’s run.

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In the end what I’m trying to say is that balance is important. I’m okay with characters having some OP moments so long as that story doesn’t revolve solely around how OP they are and also takes time to emphasize the character’s weaknesses. While some scenes may feature Batman being OP, overall I wouldn’t say that the Batman in the story is OP.

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If his pocket laser could cut through an exterior wall, it seems like it could make short work of ice.

As for some of his injuries and the exploding building, as the saying goes, that’s what makes Batman the quintessential Batman. He is prepared for anything. It’s a suspension of disbelief I think comics needs more of. That’s why we call them SUPER heroes as opposed to just heroes. They do the impossible and make it look easy.

A step away from “oh comics need to be more real” steps us into the mundane, IMO. It recalls that in other mythologic stories, heroes do the impossible.

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Wait, how can there be a court of owls Mark on one of Dick’s teeth? It’d be an adult tooth so he likely would’ve gotten it AFTER he joined up with Batman, AWAY from the Haley Circus.

LITERALLY UNREADABLE!

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“Issue 1 feels more like an excuse to see brand new New 52 designs for villains than an actual plot point.”

I suppose. This wasn’t the biggest problem for me, but it was a smidge OP for my taste. It would have been more annoying if he had wrecked the villains with all their gear, but he just kind of kept them off him. Still, Croc and Clayface are major threats without some tech edge, so it was a smidge ridiculous. Also, Bats totally walked over dozens of Arkham inmates including some of his biggest baddies with their equipment in a giant gauntlet barely taking a couple panels to put down each one during Death of the Family. I think that’s just who Batman is to Snyder.

“I believe him defeating the talon in issue 6 isn’t that much of an issue. I can believe Batman went into a frenzy and was able to fight his way out. Afterwards he just barely escapes and, in a later issue, panics at the sight of a talon because his encounter.”

The stab through the chest is the only part that seems over the line for me. Granted, this isn’t an uncommon trope in comics, but even by comic standards, it’s fairly brutal.

Gotta go. I’ll respond more later.

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WondyFan. I guess it would depend how old he was when joining Batman. Our first molars come in between 6-7 years old.
That plot point was silly and I hated the Gray Son crap they rolled out later on but technically it’s possible. Again, depending on age.

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@Awesome_Squid

“I thought that Harper Row was the one who dragged him out of the water after Batman passed out, but I’m not sure it’s explicitly stated in issue 7.”

Well, I didn’t take time to reread the entire thing, but what happened visually was that Batman was trapped under the water, thinking, “I’m already dead, aren’t I?” then slowly sinking downwards off panel which seems to convey passing out to me. Then the next time we see him, Harper is shocking him in her van and I didn’t see anything in my skimming of the dialogue explaining how she would have known where he was, had the equipment to break through the ice and then fish him out from where he had sunk (Sank? Sunked?) or how she would have hauled him to her van by herself for that matter. It’s all very convenient.

“Overall, I think the OP moments are balanced out by all the the very not OP moments. Not knowing about the Court of Owls, refusing to even think about their existence, being captured by the Court of Owls, going crazy in the Labyrinth, barely escaping the Labyrinth, almost dying in the water after escaping the Labyrinth and only surviving because of someone finding him, having a breakdown upon seeing a talon… I think it all balances out.”

All great points. I think it shows Bruce reaching his psychological limits, and that’s refreshing. I also don’t have too many complaints about him being know-it-all prep Bat God in this particular run. The only example of that is the tooth thing though I’ll concede that might have been explained in dialogue I missed. It’s Bats doing stuff like tanking explosions that is most frustrating to me. He’s Batman not Black Panther.

“But if we’re talking about other OP Snyder moments… defeating the entire Justice League in Endgame. As much of a Batman fan as I am, there’s no way Batman should be able to do that.”

Haven’t read that one yet. I think he might be able to get them with a surprise attack, but he shouldn’t stand a chance if they see an attack coming or have a moment to regroup.

“And I also really don’t like those “let me just whip out my magic bat-electromagnetic” moments.”

Yeah, and Snyder does a ton of them. It was actually Death of the Family where I started really noticing stuff like all this. I feel like Bruce had some contraption in there that was perfectly designed to defeat a Harley Quinn trap and there’s just no way Bats could have known to have it with him. Also, I know for certain that Bruce just straight up tanks an grenade launcher in that story. I hate that crap.

“In the end what I’m trying to say is that balance is important. I’m okay with characters having some OP moments so long as that story doesn’t revolve solely around how OP they are and also takes time to emphasize the character’s weaknesses. While some scenes may feature Batman being OP, overall I wouldn’t say that the Batman in the story is OP.”

I get what you are saying, but for my own tastes, I disagree. I see how he is tested emotionally and mentally, but I think his physical prowess is way overdone.

@Batwing52

“I one hundred percent agree with you. That nonsense is also exactly the reason why I love Snyder’s run.”

Ha! Well, to each their own. I prefer a much more grounded Bats capable of doing things that are either possible or nearly possible.

@DesSade_Acolyte

“If his pocket laser could cut through an exterior wall, it seems like it could make short work of ice.”

Absolutely, but as I said in some more detail to Squid, the last time we saw Batman he appeared to be passing out and sinking to the bottom of the lake trapped underneath the ice, and then suddenly he’s in Harper’s van. The art certainly didn’t imply he did used his laser. It implied he was unconscious and dying.

"As for some of his injuries and the exploding building, as the saying goes, that’s what makes Batman the quintessential Batman. He is prepared for anything. It’s a suspension of disbelief I think comics needs more of. That’s why we call them SUPER heroes as opposed to just heroes. They do the impossible and make it look easy.

“A step away from “oh comics need to be more real” steps us into the mundane, IMO. It recalls that in other mythologic stories, heroes do the impossible.”

That’s absolutely fair. The suspense of disbelief has to be engaged for any superhero stories and Batman is no exception. Batman constantly gets into fights that would over time have left any combatant with a useless body, grappling hooks really don’t work like they do in comics, Batmobiles would be useless in any big city and people can’t leap seven or more feet in the air as Batman does nigh constantly.

It’s really a matter of taste. My taste is for a Batman who is limited to the humanly possible or almost humanly possible. I don’t mind him taking on several thugs at once with ease or using a grappling gun to gain height with great speed even though a skilled martial artist would actually have trouble with even two opponents and the grappling gun would be moving with so much force that it would be impossible for a human to hold. Still, those kinds of things are in the, “It could kind of work. Almost,” category for me. Basically all Batman stories have made him do technically superhuman things, but they still feel relatively grounded, but tanking explosions and fighting despite a sword through the chest. Stuff like that just seems blatantly impossible to me to the point it strains my suspension of disbelief.

I understand mileage varies for others. That’s just my view of it.

@WondyFan

Ha, well I understand a lot of people aren’t as bothered by these kinds of things as I am, and I certainly wouldn’t say Court of Owls is unreadable. I think it’s good, but these things do seem a bit sloppy to me.

I remember Nightwing’s story arc in his own book threaded with this. Perhaps that explained how and when Dick got the tooth.

The bigger questions is why the Court felt the need to put a symbol on the tooth in the first place. The whole premise of the Court of Owls doesn’t make sense. “We are a super secret organization which nobody can know exists. Make sure to kill our enemies in gruesome public ways leaving lots of owl symbols in your wake. Oh, and our secret agents needs Owls on their teeth. That’s vital!”

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@SWhite While it is an out of place plot point, I believe it’s included because my theory is that the original Court of Owls storyline was meant to feature Dick Grayson Batman from Black Mirror. After all, the New 52 wasn’t planned to happen until, like, two thirds through Flashpoint. And one of the themes of Black Mirror is the corrupt rich in Gotham. And an out of place owl can be spotted in Black Mirror. And Scott Snyder himself said that he had really wanted to do the story and had to fight to do it instead of a reboot like Zero Year for the first arc of New 52 Batman. And with the Court of Owls so connected to Haley’s Circus, it all lines up perfectly.

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@BatWatch I guess we have different tastes, and that’s okay. I’ll always love Snyder’s run, but you do make some good points.

But seriously the fight with the Justice League in Endgame is so bad. Batman doesn’t do a surprise attack on them. They actually attack him first and he just wins anyways. And it’s not like the Justice League are holding back. They’re infected with a toxin that turn their love for people into hatred.

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Huh, I just had a funny thought. If their love for Batman turns into hatred, but Batman beats them… maybe that means they don’t actually like Batman that much. Clearly not what Scott Snyder intended, but that’s kind of hilarious.

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For all the talk of over powered Batman, no one is mentioning his dentistry skills. One backhand and he knocks out the exact tooth necessary. I wonder if he takes my insurance . . .

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@SWhite Yeah, that’s super OP

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Awesome_Squid

That’s a really interesting idea about Court of Owls originally being pitched for Dick Grayson. That makes sense.

The Endgame fight does seem pretty silly.

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Scott Snyder’s writing to me is very up and down there are a few things I like and others Im like blah!!

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