@abfgmsw
I also learned that publicly traded corporations that leave large quantities of cash uncollected get called out to investors and can possibly have issues with the FTC.
This is Hollywood, a good movie is one that makes money, especially at a good multiplier, which JL didn’t (about 2.2X if memory serves) WW, Aquaman, and Shazam were 4+X multipliers or better. (All highr than the Snyder trilogy, BVS had a 3.5X multiplier)
The think it’s been a mixed bag, which is why they want to reboot some aspects and get different directors. Too many fans as well as casual movie goers were dissapointed, and it unfortunately created a lot of baggage that make a negative impact at the box office. Then, we have to add in the competition with Marvel/Disney. So I understand why they have to react they way they are. I just hope they learn not to always be reactionary, but just stay with a clear and consistent vision.
@Spaceshiplazer, Well put.
They gave it a go and it didn’t stick the landing like they wanted. Only natural that they change their business model.
They’re just not going to use Superman in the future. Wouldnt be surprised if the Matt Reeves Batman starts it’s own separate “Gotham-verse” removing the character from DCEU. Looks like Shazam isnt getting a sequel either, Aquaman 2 was announced pretty quickly following its success.
I assume anything after set after JL will just use dialogue to explain why Superman cant help, if it gets acknowledged at all.
It will probably be another decade before they attempt Supes again, expect it to be heavily comedic with tons of plotholes, cliche villain motives, and hammy acting. Thanks for insisting Superman be a live action cartoon, internet.
@Zombedy We don’t want him to be a live action cartoon… we just want him to be Superman. Not the saving people hating, neck snapping, “realistic”, virginity stealing? (Zack thinks so), just generally annoying weirdo he is in Zack Snyder’s movies.
Zack Snyder created a Superman that didn’t care about his clothes and climbed in the tub onto Lois Lane, that’s a good damn Superman.
The Snyder cut wouldn’t have saved it, the franchise was dying before then. it is not an accident that the one he had the least to do with… Wonder Woman… was the only critical hit. Yeah they were making a lo of money. But fans eventually got sick of being dissapointed. Did Joss Whedon taking over improve the movie? Who knows, very likely it didn’t, sure didn’t “save” it as evidence by it’s losing money and getting panned by critics and fans.
But Snyder’s “vision” is what made them finally get tired of spending their money on his films. There is no masterpiece being hidden, just more of the same.
And his doing what Marvel did in one movie? No… that is the exact problem they had. The tried to hotshot what Marvel did.
The reason the MCU became what it was is Marvel took their time, they released multiple films with an emphasis on introducing the characters and not on world building. They got people attached to the Avengers even though most of them the general public was not heavily familiar with. They they paid it off with them getting the whole group together after years of anticipation and a franchise for the ages was born.
DC was going to do that with Green Lantern… but then it bombed so they gave up and put their plans on the back burner. Then once Marvel turned into an insane success they decided to try and play catch up, so they backwards engineered and hoped if they shvoed everyone in as soon as possible, they could go back and give everyone solo films then. And it didn’t work out.
Not sure they can truly “fix” it now. Yeah DCU movies have been mostly good in recent years with Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam being commercial and critical successes I.E. 4 of the last 5 movies. But as nearly everyone who has tried to duplicate a cinimatic universe has learned, it is a LOT harder then it looks. Mostly becqause most now just want to treat the first movie as an advetisement for the latter movies, not getting why it worked for Marvel. DC can have some great fims and make huge money. But at this point I am not sure it isn’t too late to make it another MCU. So their strategy of not focusing on that is probably the best.
The only way DC can really do it IMHO. Is to firs tmake one movie, a solo film with little to no “world building” and make it good, then make another movie another solo film with a little bit of a connection to the first but mostly on it’s own… do that with 4 or 5 films THEN make a Justice League after everyone cares about it. That is what they should have done, but now they will forever be playing catch up if they try to do what Marvel did.
The Trinity was put together only to let it he known to the fans that’s the justice league we may get might be missing Superman and Batman all the mess behind just SUCKS unfortunate but a connected universe doesn’t even need to happen I’m fine with the new video games coming out, This app, the comics, People are mad at Robert Pattinson being cast I just wanna see his suit but, Matt Reeves is promising a Batman world that sounds very pleasing so as long as they find a way to give us our stories I’ll be happy. Great discussion about something I cared about omg it feels nice lol!! Thank y’all
@abfgmsw, I agree that was one moment that seemed unnecessary and didnt help the story of there relationship or move the plot forward. I love BVS and it was one of those go to movies I would put on at night as I would settle down and I would skip past that part along with just a few others.
@Awesome Squid, Superman fights all the time, he kills when he has no other option, stories are about conflict, and a film about a perfect person saving people is boring as hell. That’s why there is so much comedy in the original films and everything else is aimed at children.
Everything else about about him hating people and being a weirdo, I cant take that seriously. If you found him weird that’s your opinion, but I found his behavior to be actually much closer to how decent people behave in reality. What would be weird is if Superman behaved like he did in the Donner movies as nobody actually acts like that. That’s what makes him cartoonish, imo. Not being like a real person. It’s like trying to turn Dudley Do-right into a blockbuster film franchise.
Hating people!? C’mon, seriously? Nack-snapping? Would you prefer Kryptonite poisoning, depowered with a dues ex machina plot device then abused and thrown to his death, or should he have flown over to lois and explained the he had to "put this monster down? (I thought it the story had already explained that very clearly) let me guess. He should have been thrown into the Phantom Zone, right? If not I’m sorry to assume, but I cant think of a more predictable and impact-less way to end it.
All I’m saying is, now nobody gets Superman. I dont see the victory.
Znyder Cut will suck anyways look at BVS
Will never understand the hate from some for MoS. Excellent Supes movie, with actual depth. Probably Snyder’s best work. Also, I think these films are more well liked than perceived. The DC fans who don’t like them, just kind of blend in with the voices of Marvel fanboys, and it seems louder than it should. I think a lot of folks were disappointed to see the way things shook out starting with JL.
@Zombedy I’m actually okay with Superman killing on occasion, because, as you said, he does so in the comics, and unlike Batman, it’s not completely out of character when he does it. It can make for an interesting story. The thing that upsets me about the killing is, based on Snyder’s attitude and the opinions gives in interviews, it doesn’t feel like Zack Snyder included it to tell a good story. I think he included it just to be shocking. In that case there was no good reason for its inclusion. And that’s why I don’t like Snyder’s DCEU movies. I feel like they’re constantly putting being shocking above telling a good story. I watch movies to be entertained with a good story. Now of course good stories don’t have to be happy, but these movies feel like the rants of a man who takes joy in tearing down characters and their fans. And after watching him talk, I don’t see how he could be doing anything but that.
@Zombedy And I wouldn’t want Superman to act like he does in his old movies either. If they were to make a new cinematic universe I think it would be better to lighten up on both the campiness and grimness. Make Superman a bit more balanced. Not too dark, since he’s Superman. But not too campy, since he needs to exist alongside more serious characters. Plus, I feel like that would give writers a bit more freedom to explore Clark since he’d feel a bit more real. If they were to do campiness, I would only want them to play it up in a few comedic or heartfelt scenes. Superman is sort of campy at his roots, so it’s a bit unavoidable, but I totally see why you wouldn’t want him to be super campy.
Man of Steel is Snyder’s best work, but I still don’t like it. I absolutely loved it when I first saw it, but upon rewatching it a couple years ago I changed my mind. Then I discovered how Snyder behaved in his interviews. Now I really dislike it.
I think the problem with Justice League is that they tried to turn a Zack Snyder movie into an MCU style movie. Which just ended up turning it into a mediocre mess. I feel like it would have been just plain bad if they continued with Zack Snyder though.
And the movies since JL have been good. I wasn’t too big a fan of Aquaman, but I loved Shazam!. It probably helps that I was expecting it to be only okay at best.
To each his own. I like both Superman interpretations (Donner/Reeve & Snyder/Cavill) for totally different reasons. One thing for certain, I like all of these films better than most of the MCU flicks. Same story arc from film to film until you get to phase 3, which admittedly is pretty kickass.
I’m shocked that the tub scene is hated because of the emotion it shows in his love for Lois… that’s what that scene shows i guess you would’ve preferred him saying “i love you” but passion makes the audience react more and understand how strong the love is. I didn’t even view that scene as being a bad scene so that’s hilarious that some of you feel weird about that scene. Probably because you haven’t seen supes be that passionate. Its just a love scene. with what they discuss about doing what needed to be done, he does the same in the comics. I think alot of fans are fans of what they chose to read obviously, MOS was a good movie because it was serious i understand the heartwarming feel of the other movies but this is a different time and also a shared universe, superman isnt always what you think he is and a lot of fans know that from reading comics where he kills to the ones where he doesn’t and is able to solve them without killing. People want things to be pure and are surprised when they read superman killing but angered when they watch it on screen?? Fans of DC are hard because most don’t except all interpretations they just say “Not my superhero” when everyone else is going “wow something new and different in his story or attitude” Gotham by gaslight could’ve been called dumb just because that wasnt bruces timeline… i love all interpretations and all fans should be open or learn to be
This guy should be on a hot take thread.
I’m out.
Only a cool adaptation of Lobo or Omega Men will save my subscription.
Man of Steel is better than Superman 1978 in every way.