Doom Patrol is based on the Grant Morrison run. It is known to have it’s fair share of cursing. Whether or not you think cursing is lazy or childish is irrelevant. It’s a part of life. It’s what people do. Honestly, if you have an issue with cursing, I recommend you don’t watch most of DC shows because there’s violence and sex (which you may also not like).
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Batwatch says everything that I wanted to say and more.
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I can understand that but it would be much smarter for both equality in audience and business standpoint for DC to create mature stories that don’t have cursing, violence or sexual nature.
It’s strange to me that people think this is the norm - when it’s not. Even moreso that this has to be - or should be included in superhero shows/movies. When superheroes were built on conservatational moral values to begin with. Either we’ve gotten numb to the fact or we’ve just forgotten what heroism truly standa for.
I don’t look at this any differently from tv shows/movies altering outfits to appeal to more audiences - such as more recently, Melissa Benoist being covered and wearing pants instead of a skirt.
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Tons of ways, it can be mature through it’s storytelling. Through touching on important topics like alchohalism, suicide prevention, enduring verbal and physical abuse, etc. Again, strange that people think sex, violence and cursing means mature… maybe for a rating but that’s not what we were talking about here.
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I believe “mature” means that you should be mature to be able to watch these things. It doesn’t mean that those things are mature. Gibby is right, shows can have a mature storyline while still being decent.
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Did any of you catch Kara Danvers dropping an S bomb on Supergirl this season? That was on broadcast and the closed captioning even confirmed it!
I think the fact that we hold cursing on this level of being immoral or wrong is stupid. It wasn’t long ago that people weren’t aloud to say the word pregnant on TV. We, as a society, are maturing and realizing that cursing isn’t a big deal. At the end of the day, you don’t have to watch these shows. No one is forcing you to. But sitting here and complaining about something you don’t like doesn’t change anything. As cliche as it is, actions speak louder than words. So, if you want to actually grab anyone’s attention, stop watching and they’ll care.
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I one has to explain to you the inherent differences in the word “pregnant” and “insert any chosen expletive here” then the whole point in the discussion has gone over your head. Sure, our society has evolved and some over-censorship has been adjusted, but to use that as a justification to say whatever we like in the public purview isn’t a convincing argument.
Since this is my first comment on the thread, I’ll note that I think cussing can work in certain circumstances, but generally it is overused and does give the user a more unintelligent appearance.
This section of the community forums is specifically designed for discussions like this: healthy debate. A perfect place to discuss it. Boycotting a show over language may make someone feel good on principle but will do as little to motivate change as commenting on here does. I don’t think this thread was created to convince DC to change.
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@BatWatch
Perhaps for you personally those conclusions are true for you. I do not hold the view that any of those are true.
1: If cursing is a temper tantrum, the words “gosh darn it” and “g** d*** it” are equally “steaming anger into the world”. So the fact that one uses one set of non-cussing words is irrelevant.
2: Those words are “crude” only if someone judges them as such and that is a personal opinion. There is no objective measure that the f word defines “a negative form” of sexual intercourse. Also, the view that damned is purely only relevant to eternal torment in hell, is merely one use of the word and only specific to Christian theological thought. While a word may be literally offense to a particular person, there a very long lists of words that people can find offensive and the VAST majority of them are not “curse words”.
3: Lastly, unless one is talking about something in completely clinical terms, most words and word combinations are used (consciously or subconsciously) to illicit some psychological/emotional response from the listener. As such, curse words are the antithesis of the “junk food” of language. Curse words, more so than most words, illicit psychological/emotional responses from people.
We would hardly be having this thread if the words in question were “towel, candle, run and large.” So it is pretty clear that these “curse words”, even when looked at in a reasonably objective manner, illicit psychological/emotional responses. And that’s without the words even being said. Curse words are therefore some of words the highest quality and most verbally nutritional of words in the English language.
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While I don’t fully agree, I love your argument. Well done.
It would now beg the question: Is the purpose of a word solely to illicit a psychological/emotional response?
I think your point is on to the fact that there is something that distinguishes the cussing from other words, but that is the basis for some to discourage using them. I think there is more of a purpose to word use then simply the emotion or response they create on their own. Context plays a role in that; what message is presented and perceived in the rest of the sentence?
My personal problem with cussing and why I said overuse is that many use the words for fillers to mask their lack of vocabulary, or lack of ability to articulate. The crude nature is subjective sure, but that is based on a widely accepted cultural understanding. When one uses “F***” as frequently as another says “umm” and it’s completely unrelated to the thought they are attempting to express, that coupled with the crudeness of the word is a quick turn off. If it helps the sentence or makes me laugh, I give it a pass. Unfortunately, many shows (heck, people in general) are more inclined to use it willy nilly and it does get old fast.
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What’s left to say?
Everybody keep in mind, this isn’t even about censorship or removing freedom of speech so much as it’s offering different options to different demographics of users and their wants. Having the option to silence curse words or make a series without them isn’t a crazy thing to ask for.
And yes, yes, if I were to show an episode of a DC show at a church event or at a family movie night, I don’t want it with f bombs. For someone to be like “Well I don’t have any problem with it, it’s normal and shouldn’t bother you” that is a bothersome mentality itself.
And regardless of one’s upbringing or acceptance/numbness to curse words, in America we can agree that cursing without reason will get you snarly looks from the public. We can pretend cursing has become a norm in American society but it hasn’t. We are not in U.K, Ireland or countries with different culture and even so, much of the world doesn’t encourage cursing rather than do.
This coming from someone who doesn’t mind violence, sex, cursing in shows or movies. Of course 
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@DeSade What I am trying to say DeSade is that this cursing issue is about emotion, not your logic. If you need logic, how about all language is arbitrary (basically)?
“It is vulgar that that word has become so commonplace.”
The word “vulgar” literally means “commonplace.” (See, for instance, the Latin Vulgate, which was the Bible in the common language.) Whether everyone is aware of it or not, there’s a classist undercurrent to discussions of so-called bad words. Note the frequent assumption that anyone who uses these words must have a small vocabulary, which implies a poor education, which itself implies poverty. Arguments about the preservation of “decency” are all too often veiled arguments for the priority of the classy bourgeoisie over the unwashed working class. It’s not morality. It’s gatekeeping.
All language is arbitrary. Words and especially the spoken word, is very much about how you say something more often than the exact words you use. Words are only as powerful, obscene, disturbing, comforting as people allow them to be. So in that sense all words are psychological/emotional weapons.
@Gibby
It is interesting you bring up the UK. You are aware that the most common use of the “f” word is in the US combined with “you”. Where as in the UK, it is most usually combined with the word “off”.
This actually shows that the US use of the word in a much more specific, direct, and confrontational way. As such, it can be argued that is one reason people in the US are more likely to find the use of the word offending because of its general hostile, provocative use.
And I’m not sure where you get the idea that cursing is more “approved of” in the UK than the US. Yes, UK tv has lower standards than the US for certain words and nudity, but has higher standards than the US for violence on tv. Societally the view that violence is more damaging than language or nudity.
Also the U.K. has a much greater care for the history of its words and the use of them. See the case of obscenity against the title of the Sex Pistols album Never Mind the Bollocks and that bollocks was an obscene word. It’s history in the language dated back before the Norman invasion so it was deemed part of Anglo-Saxon heritage and not obscene.
The “f” word has a long and glorious history in English.
I recommend the book “The F Word” to anyone who finds the topic and issues around “profanity” interesting. It is a fascinating dissection of the word, its history and how it has come and gone from favor including even as a “cuss” word.
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I’d appreciate if you didn’t say something has gone over my head, because I’ve read every single line of text in this thread so far. I chose to come in and offer a different perspective. To say something went over my head with no grounding is not only false, but insulting and hurtful. I have no problem with us disagreeing, but please don’t sit here and treat me as though I’m stupid. I hope none of my comments have come across as I view you that way, and if they did I’m truly sorry and hope you know it wasn’t my intention. One thing I think everyone isn’t focusing on is, yes cursing my be seen as a sign of unintelligence (I disagree, but I think that 57 replies shows that no one is willing to shift their stance on that), but the characters on Doom Patrol are supposed to be unintelligent. Cliff is a former alcoholic, Nascar driver who lived in a trailer. I’m not trying to make a generalization of any group of people, but the show portrays this as a sign of little intelligence and being simple. So if he curses, then by your standards it should fit perfectly with his character. And, once again, the comic line that the series is based on has it’s fair share of cursing (albeit censored), so it’s actually creating a fairly accurate version of the characters.
Feels like we’re veering a little more and more off topic but I will just say that Gordon Ramsey is a great example/stereotype of how a british person uses the f word in U.K, hence why he even has a show called “The F Word”. A brit can use the f word almost anywhere and it’s not provacative, whilst in America you will get looks, maybe even confrontation.
Generalization of cursing in America just isn’t & will never be a thing for today’s society regardless of how the word was recieved centuries ago. This is exactly why, today, regardless of “Freedom of speech” you can get arrested for cursing at someone in America, it falls under “Verbal Abuse”, it’a no small thing since it can be a hefty fine, a misdemeanor on record and even imprisonment. Ahhh hell, It’s almost like the adult version of a swear jar! Throws a dollar in
Additionally, you can also get legally kicked out of establishments such as church, resturants, stores, etc. We’ll never live in an America where it’s sane to go about in everyday life public using curse words left and right.
For anyone who disagrees, I recommend that you record a video of yourself going into a public establishment - even a bar and cursing like a sailor in front of total strangers in a friendly way, record the reactions of people around you while you’re doing this. (Don’t really do this, you’ll get beat up).
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@DeSade If something is arbitrary how can they simultaneously be “[as hurtful, etc] as people allow them to be”? Doesn’t being arbitrary imply that we have no or limited power to control how something affects us?
I also like how you finish up by stating that words are emotional weapons. So what the person who started this thread is saying is, I’d like to have less emotional weapons thrown at me during my entertainment. Friendly reminder people, this is entertainment we’re talking about, not the law, not even nonfiction.
My point is, you over and over again talk about how the arbitrariness of language should be used to prevent it hurting us (insulting people in Latin, frackle or whatever it was). I’m arguing (because I’m a sucker for these stupid debates I guess, yes, they are stupid, they’re just going to be settled by the free market anyway) that the arbitrary nature of language means that it is going to hurt us and those hurt feelings should be acknowledged instead of dismissed in your infinite reasoning.
Put it another way: if a victim of rape doesn’t want to watch a tv show that features a sexual assault storyline or a returned soldier has an episode over fireworks, pointing out that it’s not real isn’t going to help either of them. On some level they know it isn’t real. And yes, I realize that not wanting swearing is a long way from PTSD, and I apologize. I’m bad at comparisons and want to illustrate that we are going to have emotional ties to the arbitrary.
You argue the arbitrary nature of language is a reason to dismiss a person’s dislike/pain/reaction to it. I argue the exact opposite. The arbitrary nature means their reaction cannot be helped, cannot be reasoned away.
All of this is on a sliding scale of course. You can curse people in Latin and all that jazz as you have pointed out over and over. And perhaps that is why this debate is so difficult to settle.
I can’t find a single law in US Code or California Code to support that claim. It is possible that verbal abuse in certain forms can be defined as a legal grounds for domestic violence. Telling someone “f you” is not one of them.
Show me an actual law on the books, or sorry, I’m calling “bull cookies”.
You can get kicked out churches, shops, restaurants, etc. they are private property. You can get kicked out of those places for using non-four letter words as well.
You are obviously buying into a stereotype, and his shtick, in the Gordon Ramsey thing. How many of your friends, co-workers, associates are British? How much time have you spent in the UK?
I’m guessing you’ve never seen a series, from the BBC starting in 1993, with Lenny Henry called “Chef”. Gareth Blackstock was Gordon Ramsey before Gordon Ramsey…and Gareth Blackstock was a fictional character. Most of Ramsey’s shtick came from that show and that character.