Arrowverse Couch Club Season Two, Week 9: March 14-16 Episodes


We’re back to a full slate with four new Arrowverse episodes this week! Ryan became more desperate than ever as her kryptonite poisoning grew even worse on Batwoman, Jen and her family struggled to adjust to her brand-new look on Black Lightning, Eva McCulloch, now known as Mirror Monarch, began to enact her final plan for Central City and the world on The Flash and Clark found his responsibilities being pulled in several different directions on Superman & Lois. While there’s gonna be plenty of focus this weekend on a different Superman, Flash and Bat, we’ve still got plenty to break down here at the Arrowverse Couch Club.

Batwoman – “It’s Best You Stop Digging”

  • Now that we have a more complete picture of Alice’s time on Coryana, do you think there’s a more legitimate chance that Alice could be redeemed? Would you even want her to be?
  • With Ryan set to travel to Coryana next week in search of the Desert Rose, it seems like the kryptonite poisoning arc is just about finished. What were your thoughts on this storyline, and do you think it should last beyond the next episode?

Black Lightning – “The Book of Ruin: Chapter Two”

  • While Jefferson continued his heroics back as Black Lightning, he also struggled plenty this week, initially rejecting Jen’s new look and possibly pushing Lynn back toward her addiction to the meta boosters. Were his mistakes this week forgivable or did he end up going too far?

The Flash – “Mother”

  • Was letting Eva go back to the Mirrorverse the right call, or should Team Flash have come up w/ a way to imprison her for murdering Carver and kidnapping all those Central City residents?

Superman & Lois – “Haywire”

  • After disrespecting Clark and Lois’ parenting boundaries and beginning to set up a contingency against Superman, could Sam Lane be headed down a dark path for good or is there still a chance he’ll see the light?
What was your favorite episode this week?
  • Batwoman – “It’s Best You Stop Digging”
  • Black Lightning – “The Book of Ruin: Chapter Two”
  • The Flash – “Mother”
  • Superman & Lois – “Haywire”

0 voters

I think there’s a legitimate chance that her redemption could be teased to a greater degree, especially since it was revealed that the last parts of her humanity were taken away through deep hypnosis instead of trauma, I don’t see a redemption in store for Alice, at least not a full one. While she’s clearly had to suffer far more than anyone should, she’s also consciously done too many evil things for a full redemption to really make sense. Not only that, but I think the show has a good handle on her character, and I’m sure the writers recognize how popular Alice is and likely wouldn’t want to completely overhaul her character w/ that in mind. And I’m certainly in that camp that wouldn’t really want her to turn into a full-on her, though perhaps making her a little more of an anti-hero could also work if she’s gonna continue to essentially be the co-star of the show. I get that she can only be so villainous while getting this much attention, but the show’s gonna have to move on from Kate eventually (possibly as early as next week given the teaser we just got), and so Alice will have to find a different purpose. Whether or not she can end up being a little better than she has been, I doubt that path will stray too far from the evil one she’s carved out so far

While it still feels odd to have a lingering kryptonite in Gotham instead of Metropolis, Smallville or National City, I think this has been a really effective way to have Ryan hit the ground running in her debut as Batwoman. Being able to accomplish as much as she has all while having this lingering injury really shows why she deserves the cowl and shows that she’ll continue to prove herself worthy of it as the years go on

One other element of this storyline that I only just came to appreciate was the way in which the 2nd and 3rd episodes barely addressed the injury. It seemed strange to practically ignore such a huge development especially when it was the big cliffhanger that ended the season premiere, but now I really see how it fit into the narrative. Much in the way that Ryan largely ignored the injury to not seem weak, the show itself did the same to better mirror that. That way, when the kryptonite poisoning started getting so bad that she couldn’t ignore it anymore, it hit the viewers just as hard…well not physically, but emotionally

It’s been pretty compelling to see her manage this and find ways to persevere, but I’m also looking forward to seeing her operating at full strength, which we really haven’t seen her do while wearing the new suit. There’s obviously always gonna be big trouble for her, but I have to figure that after being healed by the Desert Rose, she’ll feel better than ever and ready to take on Safiyah, Black Mask and whatever other threats come her way. Plus she’ll probably get to come out of it w/ a cool scar that’ll hopefully impress a girl that’s not Angelique, because that ship sank pretty quickly this week

On the one hand, as crappy as it was to see him walk away from Jen right in front of her, I’m more willing to forgive that since she was also having trouble accepting her new form. It’d be incredibly difficult to adjust to someone you love looking completely different after so many years, so it’s understandable that some people aren’t gonna take it as well as others. Had Jen been even more upset by this move, it would’ve been harder to forgive him, but her own understanding helped make that particular situation a little better. Plus he had still built up good will by being the one to collect her particles in the 1st place, so it all resulted in me being fine w/ where they stood by the end of the episode

On the other hand, what I can’t forgive nearly as easily is the way Jeff so casually dropped all of his misgivings about Lynn’s addiction when he realized that it could help him get closer to taking down Tobias. Say what you will about the way he’s treated Lynn this season in regards to her addiction, but at least he wasn’t inherently wrong about his criticisms, even if he was delivering them in a way that was probably too harsh while failing to recognize his own serious problems. But the fact that he seemingly did a 180 and just assumed that Lynn would be fine w/ taking another meta booster to help pin down Tobias’ henchwoman showed an incredible lack of consideration for what she’s going through as well as what he’s been saying all this season. He’s coming across as a man who’s lost all faith that Lynn will be able to kick her addiction, and so it seems like he just figures he’ll use it to his advantage. Even if he doesn’t bring it up again and even apologizes (again) for saying it in the 1st place, the way Lynn looked at the boosters at the end of that scene tells me that he might’ve pushed her back down that path despite her resistance. I’m desperately hoping that’s not the case while preparing for the likelihood that it’ll happen regardless. Assuming it does, Jeff’s gonna have to do a lot more than apologize for being the 1 to push Lynn back toward a relapse

Part of me definitely still feels that Eva needs to pay for what she’s done, but by letting her go at the end of the episode, I think Barry and Iris were more so realizing the reality of the situation as opposed to solely thinking that she was redeemed. Don’t get me wrong, the latter definitely played a role in the decision, as they definitely did get through to Eva on some level, or else she wouldn’t have destroyed her army and free everyone trapped in the Mirrorverse. But beyond that, Team Flash had seemed resigned to the fact that they’d be unable to stop Eva in an actual fight. Sure, they can fight off her less powerful clones, but Eva her(not)self was still capable of moving at the speed of light in addition to her other abilities. Barry’s never been that fast and will likely never reach his comic-accurate top speed that could match her, so in that moment, they probably felt that this was the best decision they could make under the circumstances. I suppose they could’ve been more prepared by having a containment cell w/ no reflective surfaces ready to go, but I guess they just hadn’t gotten around to it yet. Letting her go certainly wasn’t an ideal choice, but I also can’t really blame Barry and Iris that much after what they had just managed to accomplish

While I’m definitely convinced that Sam will stray further from what’s truly good as the season goes on, possibly even allying himself w/ Captain Luthor at some point, I don’t think he’s gonna get to a completely irredeemable point. Unlike a lot of selfish, power-hungry villains, Sam’s heart is in the right place of wanting to protect as many people as possible, and I think between that desire and still having his daughter and Clark as potential beacons, I can’t quite see him going full villain. The adversarial relationship he has w/ those 2 definitely feels right given previous iterations of the character, but it’s kept a bit restrained and allows Lois to still have her father in her life to some degree. I’m anticipating that things will eventually get even more confrontational for them, but something will likely make Sam realize that he’s inching toward the wrong side and come back toward the light. Hell, I could even see him making a big sacrifice play to stop Luthor, or at least try to, toward the end of the season as part of some sort of redemption. His character definitely has that sort of vibe in the early goings, and it should be interesting to see how his arc continues to play out

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Already there is a rumor that Batwoman will end with Season 3. I wish these grifters would just leave our shows alone

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From what I can tell, Giant Freakin Robot doesn’t really look like a reliable source of news, and only a couple other sites are running w/ this story, including We Got This Covered, which just adds another red flag to the reliability. I can’t say this worries me at all

I love Alice’s character. I would watch an “Alice” show any day. That actress is fantastic. That being said, I don’t think she will get redeemed. She might change a bit. She has already dropped most of her Alice quoting and such, but I think she will stay mostly the same. I don’t think she will kill Kate. (But that’s because I assume she is already dead) I want Alice to hang around but the cast of do-gooders is too big already, so hopefully she stays bad and hangs around. Maybe she’ll get an anti-hero treatment? But I’m not sure how I feel about that.

It was rough that they couldn’t bring in anyone from the other shows to help. This storyline was in desperate need of a crossover. Kara, Clark or Barry or Frost, showing up to help out would have been great. Though, I liked the idea. I wonder if it was what was supposed to happen to Kate or not.

I’m not sure how I feel on this one. There was no real way to contain her. And she isn’t even human, right? Soooo, can she even be arrested? Besides, she did seem sincere at the end. Maybe, she will be back to help with whatever the next Big Bad is at the end of the season, because that actress was great.

As a Batman fan, I can’t fault anyone for making contingency plans. I can fault Sam for being a terrible grandfather. It’s one thing to make a ‘just in case my son-in-law, the most powerful man on the planet, goes rouge’ plan. It’s another to tell your grandkids that they are the reason Superman doesn’t save as many lives as he should. That was awful and Lois should have yelled at him more.
I don’t think this is a dark path for Sam, I think it makes sense. Sam can obviously see what a good man Clark is to his daughter and grandkids, but he also know how powerful he is. Sam is a military man, he always has plans. I think it is perfecting in character for him to have a contingency.


I definitely agree that she won’t kill Kate, but I’m assuming it’s because she won’t be on Coryana. I figure that Safiyah will reveal that she’s just been stringing them along this whole time, which will probably feel anti-climactic, but it’s not like they can actually show Kate w/out Ruby. If they were open to recasting, that’s what they would’ve done from the beginning

Seriously, Luke and Mary really should’ve tried making contact w/ Kara or someone else in National City. Even if there had just been a quick line about how Kate was the only one who had Supergirl’s number or something like that, it would’ve at least addressed something that I, and I’m sure at least a decent amount of others, felt was an extremely obvious option

Not technically, but their experiences w/ the mirror duplicates, mostly Mirror Monarch and Iris’, has shown them that they’re more human than we would’ve assumed otherwise. I imagine that also factored into their decision to let her go, but it’d also probably be good to work on a way to specifically harm/destroy those mirror duplicates as a contingency in case she ever returns in a dangerous way

Now I just want Lois to give him a “World’s Worst Grandpa” mug at some point


I’ll write more tomorrow, but I just wanted to mention how cool it was that I watched (yes, I know the Marvelous competition) the finale of Wandavision where they had a whole discussion on Theseus’s Ship and this was the title of the Black Lightning episode, and so I understood the reference! How weird that two comic book shows would reference a whole philosophical discussion that I never heard of in the span of a few weeks.




It’s been a surprisingly strong couple of weeks for the Ship of Theseus in superhero shows


I agree. But the only issue is that Jacob has Kate’s phone. So, they could have gotten someone’s number off of it.

Ok, fair point. I forgot about that.

I’ll send him a mug at some point. :laughing:

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Right, and that would still explain why they couldn’t get in touch w/ Supergirl or anyone else in National City. It’s just strange that they haven’t even acknowledged it by this point

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Though, I’d be down to watch an episode of Mary and Luke trying to break into the Crow’s headquarters to get Kate’s phone. Using every single spy cliché tv moment possible. All for a crossover. :laughing: I’ll add that to the list of things that will never happen but would be hilarious if it could.

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They really should’ve tried that by now. Not only would it be hilarious, but there’s gotta be plenty of useful info for them on it besides Kara’s number

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No, I do not believe she will be fully redeemed. Every time it seems she is getting closer to the person she once was, she pulls back and becomes the Alice we know and love. I do like these flashbacks as I get the feeling like we did on Arrow which fills in some of her time between when she was held captive to her return to Gotham. After all, we need to understand how she picked up her fighting skills as I do not believe she learned these while kidnapped. Certainly did not learn it from reading Alice in Wonderland. As often is the case, the villains can be more interesting than the heroes, as the heroes have set parameters to work within while you really do not know where the bad guy or girl will go in any episode. She has killed friends, spared enemies. I did enjoy the realism of her not knowing who Ryan was nor who her mom was. Alice has probably been involved in many murders and crimes, and for her to remember one over another would be asking a lot. It does take the wind out of revenge when the person you seek it on does not even remember you. I still thought it high risk for her to unmask just to face Alice, because who is to say she won’t try to find out who you are now. It was good that the hallucination of Ryan’s mom was what set her straight in that she would not want her daughter doing this.
I thought more of the kryptonite poisoning could be done. It seemed more referred to in passing like a pain that came and went until it was too much. It was always in the background, but seemed more of something Ryan was hiding from the Bat team than something harmful, until this episode. I have read many of the other comments above and agree that this would have been the time to pull in a Super- friend to help in this situation. However, I am not familiar with Supergirl to know where she is at this time, and the other show just started. Plus it seems to me Central City would fit better with a whole team of scientists who could deal with these effects, as the other Super folk would just get sick from it. If they resolve it with the Desert Rose next week, then it seems like it did not have that much impact with miracle cure.


I enjoyed that they showed different reactions. There were some who felt hesitant at first with the new Jen, but then realized they were still family. There were those who immediately were accepting. Then there was also Jeff who sees this new person and has a hard time with it. After all, he is wondering if he made a mistake in gathering particles, or in the process or something he had done, when it is still the same person. Of course, now Tobias knows of a new person in their life and is going to start digging, so who knows what he will find.
ALso, as I mentioned, I liked the second mention of Theseus’s ship. Had never heard of concept before, but it fits with episode as Jen is remade so that she is not the original anymore but she is still Jen.

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I just felt like they needed to wrap up all of the storylines as quickly as possible, and it was just too neatly done. We get Wells back, but just to help the story move towards solution before he time travels. Of course, his discussion of spending time with his wife before her untimely death sounds a lot like Sam’s leap where he tells Beth Al is still alive and she waits for him. Nice, but seems like a tease for a Wells. I still say he should show up on Stargirl on their Earth-2 with his daughter.
As for the whole love will create the speed force, seemed cheesy to me. I understand he is the Paragon of Love (for some reason I thought he was one of Hope, but whatever). Then, Iris is suddenly out of her coma in time to power the speed force and Barry can run again? Seemed like they needed to get a speed force back and was not sure what to do after last episode.
As for Eva, she should have been made to pay for her crimes, but the concern is that she has a whole world as her disposal that could enact revenge, so maybe we leave her alone she leaves us alone, mutual assured destruction? They could not beat her, so they talk to her and convince her to leave their world and bring back those taken? How were Singh and Kamilla back but no effects like Iris had? Weren’t they sicker in the mirror world? Ah who cares, everyone is back t where it needs to be so we can move on.

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I am sure he will still the light, but my god what an @$$hat!!! Telling his grandsons that if people die on Superman’s watch that it is their fault for being a distraction? They should not ask for help because they are not as important as the work their dad does? THis guy needs help just for his advice here.
I still like the realistic take on their family, as the brothers still support each other, Jonathan wants to help his friends when no one else cares, Lois is mad at Clark for missing the meeting but understands but still needs night out. Clark not liking Lana’s husband but respects that he wants what is best for Smallville.
The only thing I want to know is this alternate Luthor drops this 7734 tag with Sam, but Sam knows what project 7734 is on his world as well. Does this cross different worlds? Does it mean something different here? Just curious.


One final thought: All You Need is Love or Power of Love as the theme that should have played when Barry got his speed back? I am partial to Huey Lewis as I am a BTTF fan.

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Considering John Wesley Shipp is already gonna be on Stargirl, I don’t see why the new Earth-2 can’t also have a Wells. This does really feel like the show finally moving on from the Wells character(s) in general, but just giving us more of the 1 Wells we’ve wanted to see more of since the beginning, which I feel like is a fair tradeoff

That’d be Supergirl :supergirl_cw:

It definitely is kinda cheesy, but I’m more willing to argue that it’s the good kind of cheesy. Between Iris’ strong connection to Barry (being his lightning rod) and the reminder that she was once a speedster, I feel like there was just enough of a logical explanation behind why having her be the new source of the ASF to make this work for me. Plus there was the spark that started to wake her out of her coma, though she clearly wasn’t all there until Barry got his speed back fully. At this point, I feel like Iris was in the Mirrorverse long enough that you can still say her overall arc from 6B (into these 1st few episodes that were supposed to end season 6) was ultimately long enough to still work for me

They just weren’t there as long as Iris was. We knew that was the case for Kamilla, and while we still don’t know exactly when Singh was taken, I guess this means it had to have been some point after Iris

Well he still doesn’t know exactly what it means, he’s just using it as inspiration to name the new contingency since he’s also thinking about what Luthor told him. That said, I imagine he’ll find out more about all of this as the season goes on, just as Clark and Lois will

I’m not familiar w/ Power of Love, but if All You Need is Love had started playing during that scene, I don’t think it would’ve worked at all. It’s a nice song, but something much more epic was needed for Barry finally getting his speed back for good. Considering the background dialogue playing over the flashback scenes, a score w/ no lyrics felt like the better move for that sequence. But that song could’ve worked as a nice one to play over an ending scene where they’re all happy together or something

Batwoman - Alice was likely more redeemable had she been able to retain her memories. I am looking forward to the k-poison arc resolving.

Black Lightning - Jeff has tunnel vision. nailing Tobias is also easier to think about than trying to swallow Jen’s new look. The tunnel vision had no problem asking Lynn for the whole meta booster thing.

Flash - it was the best call to stop the destruction and save everyone. Also, it was more important to clear Sue’s name. Kind of glad Eva took Iris’ potential mirror master abilities.

S&L - there’s nothing wrong with having a plan. but if all you look for is something bad, it’s all you will find. I was more interested in this yellow phosphorous that activated latent metahuman abilities.

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