World of Wonder | Week 45 | Wonder Woman ('11) #7-10 | Jun. 3-9

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World of Wonder Week 45!

:sparkles: Journey into the Underworld :sparkles:

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World of Wonder continues to read Brian Azzarello and Cliff Chiang’s New 52 Wonder Woman series. Join us as we make our way through issues #7-10.

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When: 2020-06-03T07:00:00Z → 2020-06-09T07:00:00Z

What to read: WONDER WOMAN (2011-) #7-10

:rotating_light: SPOILER Discussion Begins Now

:star2:DISCUSSION QUESTIONS

  1. What did you think about Diana’s journey in the Underworld?

  2. How are you feeling about Wonder Woman’s extended family through these issues?

  3. Were there any moments that really stood out to you?

:nerd_face: Share your thoughts on the reading overall and let’s discuss :nerd_face:

Questions or concerns? Reach out @Nu52 :inbox_tray:

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I liked this Eros. particularly that he had pistols vs a bow and arrow. And that Diana shot Hades with one of them while he was looking in a mirror. it was a fitting close to this week.

Aphrodite was nude? weird

Is Lennox Athena? i am hoping not so i can rule it out.

have we seen Artemis? The god not the amazon of the same name that may or may not be Bana Mighdall.

On the plus side, Eris has been doing double duty with HQ:TAS.

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Just finished and before I get to the discussion questions, I want to talk about issue #7, because I think it’s an important issue. Important in the sense of this is the issue that I think either makes or breaks one’s enjoyment of this run.

It establishes something that in a sense is very antithetical to what was done with the Wonder Woman mythos in the past – basically that to replenish the population of Themiskyra, the Amazons go on raids near the border of their island, find nearby ships, and basically use the sailors in hopes they reproduce. Then, if they are to give birth to boys, they are traded for weapons with Hephaestus, or the Smith.

I think this moment more than anything else is what causes some people to hate this run, especially the hardcore fans of the character. For me personally, I don’t like the idea, but I think there’s something compelling to what Azzarello is trying to do with the Amazons, he just did it in a bad way.

First off, it just creates a lot of plot holes. Like, how did Diana not know about this? She could be forgiven for thinking it was divine as a child, but surely she should have figured out some other cause now that she’s…what, in her mid-20s? Were there no raids while she was alive? No one slipped up and mentioned it? An even better question – if they have to repopulate, does that mean they’re not immortal?

Second, it makes the Amazons almost irredeemable. It helps that outside of Hippolyta none of the other Amazons are characters we’ve read in the past, but not by much. The issue implies that the men consent and I imagine some would, but certainly not all of them. So…that’s rape. And then what is even the point of killing them? It’s not like anyone would believe these sailors. It seems to make the Amazons into something more like barbarians, a society in need of constant conquest.

Which brings me to what I think Azzarello was trying to do, which is that: make the Amazons an imperfect nation. It’s understandable in some ways: a nation is isolation often never leads to paradise. In a sense, having this ambassador come from a place that is inherently perfect trying to teach us can to some come off as somewhat imperialistic. Take up your Amazon’s Burden.

So in this take, Azzarello is making it so that not only is Diana trying to make Man’s World better by teaching them the ways of the Amazons…she’s trying to make the Amazons better by teaching them the ways of Man. Truly creating a bridge between the two worlds. I think it’s a very interesting idea, a compelling mission for the character, but I think Azzarello did it in a way that’s far to extreme.

…Man, that came out WAY longer than I thought it would. Pardon my word vomit.

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Aphrodite rarely wears clothing in classical art.

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This puzzled me too. Diana is “clay,” but where did the others come from?
Diana shows intelligence and cunning in her adventures…but this leaves a lot of questions.

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I am aware. i forgot the supra-sarcastic emoji. Again. :smiley: :sunglasses:

And in this run, Diana is not clay, but a daughter of Zeus, hence the wrath of Hera.

I always let comic book logic guide me in these situations. I’m along for the ride until the logic no longer holds.

I know we have seen something similar in the WW '86 volumes, but it was the Bana Mighdall (if that was what they were called) and they kept stables to repopulate (breeding stables i think). I don’t think they mentioned what they did to the male children.

As to the raids, was there mention of other children? Did Diana grow up alone? I forget how frequently they would go, but, @Jay_Kay, you do make valid points. If they are immortal, is that only passed to the female children? Is it such a dark secret that they wait to inform the new amazons how they came about and what they have to do to keep the Amazons going? I am going to assume the killing of their victims is to keep word from spreading so they don’t have to fight for control before boarding.

That sub-plot seemed almost centered around Diana using the word ‘brothers’, then remarking never having used it before. And I am so-so on this interpretation of Hephaestus, visually (his arms always in the forge similar to Ares’ legs caked with blood). I like the tragic backstory of getting rejected by mom (Hera, right?) and the taking in of the boy amazons is to give them a home and a little bit of purpose.

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To borrow from another movie:

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  1. What did you think about Diana’s journey in the Underworld?

It was very cool – this run’s take on the Underworld is very unique, and the plan both in getting Zola out and later getting Diana out were clever and exciting.

  1. How are you feeling about Wonder Woman’s extended family through these issues?

I probably said it before when we first started going through this series, but I think this is the best take on the Greek Pantheon in Wonder Woman ever. Each take on these characters is unique in terms of look and personality,

But let’s not forget the less godly characters! Zola is out of commission for half of it, but her moments here are still very memorable.

  1. Were there any moments that really stood out to you?

I think I would go with how Diana gets Hades to potentially “love himself.” Via Love Guns. Speaking of, whenever I see Eros’ guns, I can’t help but think of this song:

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Okay, want to address the Amazons as “an imperfect nation.” Which is a really nice turn of phrase for what we have here. In most iterations they are exactly that, a perfect world free from man’s evil influence. There’s a message there but it’s a pretty simplistic one, and more importantly for story telling a rather dull one. It reminds me of Roddenberry’s edict for the first two years of Star Trek Next Generation in which he insisted there be no conflict among the crew and that the Federation had somehow repealed human nature. There’s something aspirational about it, but not compelling. I prefer my Amazons imperfect, as prone to human nature as the rest of the planet. Now, this imperfect is pretty tough. Makes for a story, but I would have retconned this element of the story away. Some back biting, greed. hubris sure, infanticide not so much.

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Good for her

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The elements I want to talk about start with this cover. This is to me is an iconic image from this run. Everything is perfect. It is full of motion as Diana dives to her left, her hair creating a dynamic line flowing toward the upper left of the picture. The golden hand guns provide an element of surprise with the casing falling all around her. In the small detail that sells it to me is the slight squinting of her left eye as she sights her target.

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The sequence when she shoots Hades is fantastic. First, it took me a second to understand what she had done and then it feels great because it is so Wonder Woman. She will kick your butt when necessary, but she really does care for people and would rather help even her enemies.

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Really lives up to the “make a hawk a dove, stop a war with love” thing. And they say this characterization of Diana doesn’t fit with the classic Wonder Woman!

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my first Love Gun was by Kiss.

I joined this book club to learn more about Wonder Woman since up until now, I have read her the least. From what I can tell, this iteration has the Wonder Woman -ness that I have come to know as Wonder Woman.

While this is not the first telling of this character, another perspective is the writer’s side of the equation. That this person brings their experiences, their upbringing, their likes and dislikes about the character etc.

A Paradise Island that is truly paradise and does no wrong is great. But giving it a little tarnish, even for the sake of storytelling, is also great (assuming it is told well). Plus, the tarnish makes the shiny parts seem a bit brighter.

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