Who Would Win? Huntress vs. Harley Quinn

Selina never went by Calabrese - she never lost the Kyle, and the recent inclusion of Eiko indicates that the Calabrese plotline is still in continuity. You could just as well argue that Loeb’s stuff meant that her name was “changed” to Falcone.

Babs’s parentage is irrelevant to any of her stories (with perhaps one exception), whether she’s Jim’s daughter or niece, their relationship is always one of father and daughter, and it doesn’t motivate her.

Height, race, and age are irrelevant to any arguments I’ve made.

The idea that “because there’s an AU where someone’s motivation was flipped, that means that Helena Bertinelli, who’s entire story and motivation is completely unique to herself, and share nothing with Helena Wayne, is the same”. AUs and reality flipping are about one off stories (or only occasionally returned to) - Helena Bertinelli was a completely reimagined character who sustained her own life for 20 years.

I find all of these arguments completely unconvincing.

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Helena Bertenelli is an inch taller than Helena Wayne. But Prime Damian is two inches shorter than New Damian, and no one is saying that they’re not the same character.

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I haven’t seen anything that hasn’t been added to DCUI yet.

Alright, you’ve got me here.

I’m rebutting everyone’s arguments, not just yours.

This is true, but

They have the same names, same outfit, and both operate in Gotham.

So ultimately, I’m not saying they’re the “same” like Kal-L and Kal-El, but I am saying they’re the same like Superman and Superboy-Prime.

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I always thought they were the same hieght

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They are superficially the same. But they are not at all the same character. I love Helena Bertinelli as my second favorite character in all of DC. I have absolutely no attachment to Helena Wayne as of yet (the only chance that might change is if Bat/Cat actually does anything with her).

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Re
Superman and Superboy Prime is very close to the correct comparison

Helen Bertinelli would never have existed without Helena Wayne

When Helen Bertinelli Huntress appeared her costume was the same as Helena Wayne, except the boots were not thigh high.

In New 52, Helena Wayne was heavily influenced by Bertinelli.

In the New 52 Huntress mini series

  1. Helena Wayne killed people

  2. She wore a costume which included a cross symbol

  3. The name on her passport was Helena Bertinelli

But she was NOT Helen Bertinelli

As is seen in page 1 of issue 1 of World Finest

The true comparison is
Green Lantern

Alan Scott vs Hal Jordan

The Golden Age Super Heroes had simple origins

Flash inhaled ‘hard water’ which as Mark Waid said in Secret Origins The Story of DC Comic documentary is ‘Ice’.

The Origin were often magic based

The Green Lantern Alan Scott found was based on the story of the magical Aladdin’s Lamp.

Hawkman was a reincarnated Egyptian Prince.

When these characters were revived in the Silver Age, their origins were more Science Fiction based and / or very different costumes

With Green Lantern, the Power Ring was of Alien Origin.

Hawkman was a police officer from Thanagar.

Similarly
Bronze Age Helena Bertinelli Huntress had a different origin story from Silver Age Helena Bertinelli

She had to.

Earth 2 no longer existed nor Earth 2 Bruce Wayne. She could not be his daughter. In issues 12 of Crisis on Multiple Earth, she ceased to exist.

Also this was the time of Watchmen and Dark Knight, with grim dark heroes.

Helena Bertinelli initial origin story was also.
It involved r a p e as a young child, plus the murder of her family. In her next origin, only murder.

In the murder of her family, she still echoed Batman, but she was a murdering vigilante, which Helena Wayne definitely was not. In her second series, she seemed almost psychotic.

Helana Bertinelli was toned down and she then could be part of Birds of Prey.

Would the original Helena Wayne been part of that team?

No, her personality was too similar to Batgirl and was actually proposed to creator Paul Levitz as an Earth 2 Batgirl

The New 52 Helena Wayne could have been in that Birds of Prey, except that was too tied to New 52 Power Girl

As I said above

After Death Metal

Helena Wayne is
The daughter of
Bruce Wayne and
Selina Kyle
In the Future
In Batman Catwoman Title
As Batwoman

Helena Bertinelli
Is the current Huntress
In the Batman Titles

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If you really read the 2011 Huntress story, in the first issue, Huntress is Helena Bertinelli. She knows Siperman and Batman, and the JLA; over in Flashpoint, as Barry finds his way back/restores his proper time, a version of Pandora-- not neccesarily the one from the 52, combines another timeline with the New Earth timeline created after COIE, forming the New 52 timeline-- even as Doctor Manhattan is removing Alan Scott finding his green lantern ever from happening, all of this somehow deleting ten years of our heroes history-- but necessairly their lives because they live in comic book time. So by issue 6, the Huntress is Helena Wayne from a new Earth 2, only pretending to be Bertinelli-- and she’s never met the Prime Earth Superman and Batman. We eventually meet the “real” Helena Bertinelli in the pages of Grayson.

So…

Those of you want Helena and Helena to be the same are right.

And guess what? Those of you who want them to be different are right, too.

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Good Detective Work

These are some panel from

Huntress Mini
Worlds Finest
Batman Superman

Since the Huntress Mini
Ends just before Worlds
Finest 1

Helena Wayne (Robin of Earth 2, then Huntress)
And Kara Kent, then Starr (Supergirl of Earth 2 then Power Girl)

Have been on Earth 2 for five years

They know about Superman there from the first day and certainly read about the other super heroes as well

Kara certainly knows Clark Kent is Superman, as she is the adopted daughter of Clark and Lois in her world

But Huntress and Power Girl meet Batman and Superman later on in a 4 part crossover starting in Worlds Finest 19 & Batman Superman 8

This page in Issue 1 is therefore a problem

This is not
Helena lived in her Gotham until 5 years ago
And could gave visited Gotham here in those five years

First indication that Huntress is Helena Wayne

Day one of Earth Prime

Another anomaly
Helena doesn’t know
Who Batman of this Earth is

Crossover

Another Anamoly
Batman thinks
Helena is 17?
She is at least in her twenties now

Can’t be a flashback

Because
PG is wearing her
Traditional costume

Which she didn’t in early issues

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I think they started out literally showing the mixing of the two timelines in certain books— and back-pedaled when it was a little too late.

In Mister Terrific-- and this Michael Sloan appears to be from the other timeline and until into Rebirth-- Karen Starr appears to be a human woman. But, several issues in, she’s clearly Power Girl.

And there’s the unholy mess of Red Hood and the Outlaws #1… (the series, contrary to uproar caused by this issue, is often quite good.)

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Red Hood New 52 had its moments

I remember

Them in space where Kori had been Ship Captain before

Jason’s Flight Attendant girlfriend, who was refreshing

I really like Rebirth Outlaws especially
Smart Bizarro

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Helena Wayne of earth two was found dead on New earth and buried in Valhalla cemetery alongside earth two dick Grayson. At least according to DC wiki Database. the DCUI does not have the issue Last Days of the Justice Society Special #1 so i can’t confirm it with my own eyes.

Actually, Eiko was in Prelude to the wedding (red hoods issue) however I also feel have been at least 2 resets in the batman timeline in Rebirth batman. then Catwoman 2018 with Batman Catwoman fitting into the events pre batman 50 as the results were altered with the introduction of Thomas Wayne into the time stream. I explained it better here.

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Oh, I know about the Eiko appearance in the Prelude to the Wedding, but I was going for the most recent appearance. I know Catwoman’s knowledge of Bruce’s identity has changed some stuff, but I don’t think it’s too big a deal overall.

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i know i was not clear, it seems their history seems to have changed some in it.

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You see a change in Selina and Eiko’s history?

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Kal-L of Earth-Two was buried on New Earth too.

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Did Eiko ever meet Nightwing? (i have not read much of the new 52) and she talks about him being handsome at Selina’s batchleret party

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after he was freed from the dimension he was trapped in.

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I know. I’m not sure what your point is.

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She did not meet Dick during Valentine’s run, because that was during Grayson, and therefore quite difficult for her to do so. But I believe it’s implied or fairly easy to extrapolate that at some point either before or after Grayson, Eiko would have come across Nightwing.

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Prime and New Damian

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