Im talking about how when he thinks smellerbee is a boy, he treats her like a warrior but when he learns shes a girl he only compliments her based on appearance and no longer sees her as a warrior. also yes Azula had serious mental problem but they stemmed from parental abuse and neglect, iroh consistently helps zuko with his mental health issues created by the same people but never offers to help azula. Azula becomes so unstable do to the absolute failure and pressures from the adults around her and they should be held accountable, even at Jason’s worst alfred still believes in helping and healing him
I do believe he made up for that when he “saved” the female soldier that was kind to him in prison.
I use the “” because Iroh didn’t want her to be hurt during his rampage and it was more like helpful advice.
Ursa can be faulted for not realizing that Azula needed her help too, but Ozai was just a dick. As for Iroh, Azula was always mean to him, even calling him pathetic just because he was sad his son died.
Like I said, Azula was cruel to him and I can’t see why he’d want to help her after that.
As for Zuko, Iroh was at sea with him for a long while and began to see him as his own son, a connection he could never form with Azula due to her cruel nature.
I have no doubt that if Iroh thought he could, he would help her, but even he, the optimist, knows she is beyond help.
True. Alfred has come to care for everyone to walk through the doors of Wayne Manor and Jason is no exception, though he was never as far gone as Azula.
azula is a child and i find it really hard to believe an abused and negelected (Im looking at you ursa) child is beyond redemption . also theres a cool theory that azula calling iroh pathetic was in fact her mourning Lu ten because she was angery and wanted revenge. I think the beach episode and the look into her own extremely disturbing self hatred internalized view of herself shows that she can be saved if someone tried
Little is known about Iroh’s relationship with his niece Azula. While Iroh seemingly cared for Azula when she was little, as seen when he sent her a doll from the Siege of Ba Sing Se, that attachment deteriorated.
Some children are just like that. The best example I can think of is Cletus Kasady (AKA Carnage) from Marvel Comics, since he is based on real people. When he was just a kindergartener, he was committing horrific acts of violence.
While Azula is not as violent, she is just as cruel and manipulative.
It is cool, I’ll admit it, but it is still a theory.
Also, I doubt it. Remember, Azula used to torment Zuko when they were younger just for kicks.
I do agree, but due to issues like her delusions of her mother, she would last likely lash out and possibly kill anyone that tries to get close enough.
Just saw this: Following the betrayal by her closest friends Mai and Ty Lee, she possibly develops schizoaffective disorder, as indicated by her delusions of persecution, hallucinations of her mother speaking to her, as well as her frequent and radical intermittent mood fluctuations.
id argue theres a serius differences between azula being actievly encouraged by nearly every adult in her formative years to be cruel, manipulative, and mean, and the guy who wants to murder people for kicks. azula puts zuko down because she wants to raise herself in the eyes of azulon and ozai not because she enjoys she has been conditioned that the onyl way to survive is to be cruel. an another thing I firmly believe iroh could beat azula in a fight and there are methods to neutralize bending, if it was truely viewed as a threat to her and and others. also for personal reasons i have major issues with the villainization of schizophrenia and similar things
Not really. Cletus’ entire family were easily as cruel as Ozai, which made him snap and commit the ultimate sin: killing a dog.
Both of them suffered at the hands of the adults in their lives and it shaped them in different ways. One is a master manipulator and the other is a serial killer.
I have to disagree with the Azulon part, which this part of Book 2: Earth agrees with:
Ozai: Father, you must have realized as I have that with Lu Ten gone, Iroh’s bloodline has ended. After his son’s death, my brother abandoned the siege at Ba Sing Se, and who knows when he’ll return home. But I am here, Father, and my children are alive. Azulon: Say what it is you want! Ozai: Father, revoke Iroh’s birthright. I am your humble servant, here to serve you and our nation. Use me. Azulon: You dare suggest I betray Iroh, my first born, directly after the demise of his only beloved son?! I think that Iroh has suffered enough. But you, your punishment has scarcely begun! Young Azula: [singing] Dad’s goin’ kill you.[to Zuko] Really it is. Young Zuko: Aha, Azula, nice try.
Had Azulon agreed and been as cruel as Ozai, and later Azula, Ozai would not have had to force Ursa to poison him.
Plus, like most bullies, she screwed with him when there were no adults present, even giving him nightmares at the age of 8.
I have a feeling that if it came to that, Iroh would try to reason with her first, even if he knows what he’s saying is falling on deaf ears since Azula ignored his advice LONG before she went crazy.
I do agree schizophrenia is used too often for villains, but she does not have that. She has schizoaffective disorder, which is more different then you’d expect, and nine out of ten times, that leads to a cruel person.
Agree. I feel terrible for Azula but knowing her tragic backstory doesn’t make her actions any less evil. It simply informs us on her state of mind.
No disrespect for @Izzy11 because there are really interesting points they make, but I see that train of thought use for things like Steven Universe where the main villians; The diamonds are responsible for countless atrocities across the universe including mass species genocide are forgiven in the end. Yes SU downplays that aspect for it’s younger audience, but it’s there.
Likewise for something DC related and someone who is similar to your Azula argument. CW’s Batwoman show main antagonist Alice is a known criminal who terrorize and killed many people in Gotham, police and civilians alike. She knowingly killed individual members of the Bat-family families, both Mary Hamilton mother and being responsible for Ryan Wilder adopted mother death. Yet there is a strange degree of leeway on her criminal activities by Batwoman because she feels bad for Alice. She tells a sob story about her being brainwashed and suddenly it explains even her worst atrocities as her being mentally ill.
Bull$hit! Alice is a straight up sociopath who managed to manipulate people in following her narrative.
Look… There is this moment in Avatar where Katara finds a picture she believes to be a cute baby Zuko. However Zuko frustratingly tells her that the baby in the picture was in fact, Ozai.
Yeah, nobody starts off evil, they may have suffered in life, but sometimes knowing how evil originated doesn’t really excuse people’s behavior and actions in life. It’s bitterness to say but sometimes people like Iroh know that they can’t save everyone. If anything those people like Azula can really only save themselves.
Seriously @Izzy11 You wrote a great discussion with @BatMike9theMKfan! It’s got me thinking and writing this long piece of writing. Keep up the good work.