I agree…the 52 was phenomenal…and I hope we are about to get the same with the “Death” of the JL.
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You know they’re going to have to do something for the 40th anniversary of CoIE in 2025… Frankly, I’m surprised they didn’t hold off on this Dark Crisis story until then.
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The point being made is: people were already pooh-poohing the movie over a year before it came out.
I’m of the age where we knew virtually nothing of a movie until it appeared in the cinema. Nowadays, everybody’s developed an opinion sometimes years before it ever sees the screen. As well, suddenly, everybody’s a critic, and supposedly, their opinion’s supposed to be the only one that matters. What ever happened to just going in, shutting off your brain and going for the ride.
When I was growing up, things like Incredible Hulk, Wonder Woman and Buck Rogers in the 25th Century were the pinnacle of sci-fi/fantasy/hero fare. I never imagined I’d be able to see the kinds of things that are on screens now. So, while not all of them are stellar by any means, I try not to draw conclusions until my butt has been in the seat and the final credits are rolling…
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But if most people think they were right to pooh-pooh the movie in advance…that seems to be shaky ground to say “so you shouldn’t do it”.
And I think it’s a bit of an apples and eggs comparison between a movie and a comic series. Movies may have wider implications, but they’re (usually) 2 hour affairs that come out three times a year (in a series) at most. Comics are an ongoing universe that comes out every week, and monthly for a series. The commitment (financial and emotional) between the two is significantly different.
Also, I never, ever, ever turn off my brain. I sometimes am able to suspend my disbelief, but I just don’t enjoy entertainment that requires me to turn off the whole brain.
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Oh, please…no…
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But you see it all the time with comics, too. I still remember a lot of hoo-hah when it was announced Brian Bendis was coming over. I’ve heard it at my local shop when it’s time to order books for three months on… things like “Why are they putting so-and-so on that? He’s going to turn it into crap!”
It happens everywhere and all the time. I’m just old and cranky. No need for us to belabor it anymore. We’ve all got our opinions and they’re all valid at some level.
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I wrote it off when I found out it was still a Snyder movie. He already made two terrible DC movies. I still saw it when Whedon took over, and it was still garbage. And the Snyder cut, while a better movie, was still not great.
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I agree that it’s good to be able to discuss opinions - I’m just trying to understand what yours is. If it’s “don’t have negative opinions before something comes out”, it confuses me, because all of the examples you’re using are generally cited as times when a negative expectation was justified by the result.
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Generally, my take on it is: If it looks interesting and will keep my attention, I’ll go and make my judgment after I’ve spent the money and time. Then I feel like I’ve earned my right to an opinion.
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That seems quite reasonable - but if it doesn’t look interesting and doesn’t look like it will keep your attention, isn’t that an equally valid opinion to express?
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Maybe, but the venom that some people use to express that disinterest really seems excessive.
And the attitude that, if you are interested, there’s something wrong with you.
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I agree that venom in discussion is generally counterproductive. But moderating tone and asking for respect for other views isn’t really connected to actually criticizing the views themselves.
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I’m just getting old and certain things annoy me.
I think we’ve probably hijacked this thread enough for now. Thanks for the conversation, though. I’ve never actually spent time on a board like this.
We’ll see if they limit my number of posts today like they did yesterday…
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I mean, what are message boards for if not talking? 
You must have been very active indeed to have gotten message limited!
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Well, yesterday was my first day here, even though I made an account for FanDome year before last, so I’ve been scouring the board for threads to toss my two cents (or whatever today’s exchange rate is) in, even if they’re a couple years old.
Practically everybody at my local shop seems to be more a Marvel fan (and I’ve got my books that I get from them, so I don’t begrudge them), and I’m egregiously behind on my reading of anything, so I don’t really have too many folks around home I can discuss things with.
And things here have been bloody slow, so I kind of went nuts yesterday.
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And jumping in on the subject of “Bat Fatigue” mentioned way up the thread…
For me, I’ve been a bat-fan pretty much since I started buying comics on spinner racks for thirty cents a piece back in the mid 70s. So I’ve gone through the ups and downs with the character and his family (vastly extended over the last twenty years or so). Some of it left an impact, some of it I read and immediately forgot. But still I pick up every darn bat book that comes out, because regardless who’s writing, regardless who’s drawing, that next one might be the one that makes me go, “Holy crap, that was great!”
Not every writer turns out gold every time, even an artist can have a bad day (I know there are books where I’ve asked myself: “Who drew this?” then went back and checked and went, “Really, this doesn’t look at all like what I’m used to from this person.”) Just like anything, you need to take the chance. Yes, you can wait to hear the hype, but I’ve been burned by hype before, because my tastes don’t always mesh with the people who claim their opinion is the one everybody should be listening to.
I understand the burnout and the complaints about generally focusing on one character or concept, to the potential detriment of everything else. It’s why I bowed out of Marvel entirely for almost ten years back in the nineties, when their focus was entirely on mutants (not that it still isn’t, for a large part) and everything else they published seemed to suffer for it.
So what’s the solution? As has been mentioned, unless you’re a completist (like me), if it doesn’t sound like something you’d be interested in, leave it.
Yes, at times it would be nice if they pared down the bats for some other characters that don’t get as much time in the spotlight, but those books often don’t hit the pocketbooks of the shareholders quite as pleasantly as the bat family does. As has likely been mentioned already, that’s really the bottom line for corporate: will it sell? Bats sell.
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Well said, as a member of your generation, I agree wholeheartedly.
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It’s been a few months since I made this topic and I wanted to come back to it because I noticed something recently.
There was a time in the late nineties where I’d eagerly await the DC solicitations. There was something amazing about being all in on DC at the time and seeing what was coming down the pike. And even during periods where I was into some books more than others, I’d go through each description line by line with excitement.
I still check out the solicitations, but its more out of habit than enjoyment these days. I think it was right around when Bendis was announced to take over the Super-books that I started losing interest. There was a point I’d check just for the upcoming trades, and even that wavered.
When I look at solicitations now, nothing grabs me. I see tons of the usual multi-part write-for-the-trade stories, I see mini-series with the same characters, more emphasis on big crossovers and I just don’t have that thrill like I used to. To be fair, this may not be the fault of DC and I just might be getting older, but it sucks that I haven’t gravitated towards the new stuff in a long time. I want to see what happens after Dark Crisis, though.
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I’ve always been a selective reader. Probably always will be. I haven’t read Superman regularly, like, across years, since Triangle Era ended. I follow talent more than characters.
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I’ve been checking solicits more regularly lately. I would say DC have done a decent enough job keeping me interested in what’s to come. I haven’t liked every story and publishing decision, but for the most part I feel like the end product has been entertaining and enough of a fill of my favorite characters, which is all I ask. If I were to ask for something to keep me even more engaged, however…
Since I started reading in 2011, the model hasn’t really changed much. Different runs by different creative teams on each character, with each run attempting to forever change things for said character. Every summer there’s the “big event” bringing the various characters together, and then every few years there’s the Crisis level event attempting to make even bigger changes to the whole multiverse.
If anything, I would like to see a change to the above approach. Keep your big events, but make them less about a promise to “change the universe forever” and more about generating hope, excitement, and intrigue. How about the Justice League facing the Great Darkness, and the legacy characters stepping up to help without everyone “dying”? Or the Dark Multiverse being introduced without a godlike version of Batman trying to wipe out existence, at least not right out the gate like they did? The concept of the Dark Multiverse itself is ripe for additional storytelling within those worlds, and how they can slip into and affect the main universe. How about focusing on one problem at a time with Batman? Alfred’s death, Damian’s estrangement, the loss of his fortune, the “Next” Batman… all those are worthy of their own storylines, but it’s all cobbled together without focus.
You get my drift here. Like I said in the beginning, I do find the material entertaining and I continue to read the books I’ve been reading for 11 years now. The above are examples of where I think DC could shift the focus a bit from shock & awe to more nuanced storytelling and world building. It’s not that DC doesn’t currently do that; they do. Phillip Kennedy Johnson’s Action Comics has great world building. It actually doesn’t shy away from “rocking Superman’s world”, but doesn’t do so at the expense of the story being told. The shock & awe feel earned in that case. Stephanie Phillips’ Harley Quinn takes a rather nuanced approach to balancing out comedy with some poignancy. It’s a humorous action romp with Harley shenanigans through & through, but it does a great job of displaying Harley’s inner sadness. The two books couldn’t be more different, but I find both to be rather immersive comic book reads.
Of course there’s the trump card that is the almighty dollar. I imagine a response to this post will mention how DC need to make money and have to do these big events. Like I said, keep the events. I just think they can go about them a little differently, is all. A slightly outside the box approach may actually generate even more sales.
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