:jsa_book_club: Thy Kingdom Come/May 16- 31, 2021:jsa_book_club:

[JasonTodd428]

Welcome back members of the JSABC to this month’s second session. We will be taking a look at the next selection of stories from 2007’s Justice Society of America. First we have a spotlight on Liberty Belle in the story “Bells and Whistles” and then we turn our attention to the “Thy Kingdom Come” storyline.

Lets call this meeting to order and get started.

THE JSA BOOK CLUB ROLL CALL
Club Leaders

@JasonTodd428 & @Aurora

Standing Members

Abrax, AggressiveIntellectual219, anthony.javier3, Applejack, Azrael_Jean_PaulValley14, BBlake, bbzo24, bigblock66, Blueandred BlueBeetlesAssistant, BobbinIrving, Brenticus_Rex,CaptainYesterday, CassTheStreet, CrazyQuilt, Daffern, dave7atgosky, dave_worrell, DC_Community, Deathstroke’sPunisher, december360, djganon, Doctor075, DocterFate1, Don-El, fawsid, Finn.P.Campbell, frankie.lacy79, Frostbite30, ganaoque, harrist, HombreDeMaiz, hotstufflouie, Jay_Kay, Jflow, jlevin, Jurisdiction, kaliym73, lunalane, MatthewHecht, mbpbinder, _meegs, Meisaj, mgeiler, Midnitehour, MisfitCMJ, mitchellbpearson, MPMCN86, msgtv, Odbo255, PaintEater, parzival27, ProActress, QuadPen, ralphsix, Ravenrifft, ReaganFan78, Remember5NovEveyHammond, RexRebel, RickTylerHourman, rlynchfamily, ROMANLEGION rspezzano, rwm, Ryan22, scoop001, Sinestro1,slowp0Ketail, Smallengineerings, SuperBlue Grodd, TheCosmicMoth, TK52, TurokSonOfStone, YolandaMontezz, ZacharyLee1995

To join the JSA BOOK CLUB click the link.

WHAT TO READ

* Justice Society of America (2007) # 8-11

.DISCUSSION QUESTIONS

1. “Bells and Whistles” gives a bit of background to Jesse Quick. What did you think of this stand alone story?

2. What was your favorite part of issue #9?

3. It was mentioned several times that another grey-haired Superman from another Earth had appeared to condemn the JSA for their mistakes. Do you find it a but convenient that another one has shown up and said this Earth is at least trying?

4. What do you think it was that Wally and Jay saw while on the Cosmic Treadmill?

That’s it for this month but tune in next month as we take a look at the continuing adventures of the All Star Squadron and another story from the JSA Classified. See ya then

[MatthewHecht]

Saw it was sold out.

Good sign for more JSA.

[MatthewHecht]

Something I noticed on my reread/
From issue 8

Proves this line from The Kingdom wrong

Props to them with the imagery mirroring.

[MatthewHecht]

8. Second time in a row you start with an issues I overall dislike despite liking some small details in it. Are you doing this on purpose? If you memorized all my previous comments you can probably guess I dislike Liberty Belle. I dislike her costume, dull personality, relationship with Hourman, and how that makes him dull too. He is far more interesting without her. I am sure she was used heavily in some other series Johns assumed I read, but I did not. My introduction to her was in issue one when one of the old men called her “enthusiastic,” but the cover shows…
   
   
   
   She not only looks bored and uninterested in joining the team, but like she is looking at Stargirl and thinking “stop having fun. How is putting on an awesome costume with awesome powers and saving the world supposed to be fun?” (I love that cover and analyze it way too much).

Still I enjoy several of the character interactions, the art, and the ending fight.

I have to ask this about the last page. Is the joke with the snow falling on Power Girl some inside joke? Did she have a villain named “Avalanche.” Why does Stargirl think this is so funny, as I think she is about to die from laughter. Is there a pun I am missing? Seriously, I have been wondering about this for a month now?

[MatthewHecht]

9- My favorite part is Flash teasing the guy for flirting with Stargirl (I believe the fire fighter). I think Flash does too, as of the three times he does this thing this is the only time he seems happy and light hearted. This beats out The Wildcat fight.

10- It seems to be Obsidian and Stargirl who fully trust KC Superman and Power Girl, Hawkman, and GL with big reservations. Notice Alan is far too quick to judge Obsidian. This follows a theme I noticed from my reread for issues 1-25, the Elder statesmen are doing a sucky job as mentors/leaders. They are awful at teamwork and making hordes of mistakes, mostly as they seem to have gotten notably arrogant. I guess Batman’s praise got to their heads too much.

To answer your question I do not call it too convenient. Comics are full of far more convenient things like baby Superman not drowning in The Pacific Ocean, and his arrival makes hordes of problems.

11- Just look at the cover. The focus is clearly on KC Superman. Cyclone and to a lesser extent Stargirl are overjoyed to have him on the team. Power Girl has a small reserved smile thinking this might be what she hoped Infinite Crisis would be, but she has worries. Alan and Hourman are keeping a close eye on him, as they both distrust him.

To answer your final question I think they are looking at Gog’s old Earth. It was an Earth 2 like place (Robin and Huntress being there and looking up to something). I presume they are looking at Gog. There is nothing there anymore, as Gog destroyed the Earth.

Well, this was a lot of fun.

[JasonTodd428]

@MatthewHecht

Are you doing this on purpose?

Not at all. looks shifty eyed

In all seriousness though she isn’t my favorite in this series at all.

@MatthewHecht

I have to ask this about the last page. Is the joke with the snow falling on Power Girl some inside joke?

I’m not sure.

@MatthewHecht

My favorite part is Flash teasing the guy
for flirting with Stargirl

I liked that part too.

@MatthewHecht

the Elder statesmen are doing a sucky job as mentors/leaders. They are awful at teamwork and making hordes of mistakes, mostly as they seem to have gotten notably arrogant.

I noticed that too. Seems a bit like this is a backfired attempt at making them more “human” maybe?

@MatthewHecht

Cyclone and to a lesser extent Stargirl are overjoyed to have him on the team

That shows how perhaps naive and new to the hero scene they are in my opinion.

@MatthewHecht

Alan and Hourman are keeping a close eye on him, as they both distrust him.

Just as I would expect them to do given their experience.

Then there’s Power Girl who is being pulled in two directions and because of her own confusion she’s caught in the middle here.

@MatthewHecht

To answer your final question I think they are looking at Gog’s old Earth. It was an Earth 2 like place (Robin and Huntress being there and looking up to something). I presume they are looking at Gog. There is nothing there anymore, as Gog destroyed the Earth.

That would make sense especially given that Robin and Huntress don’t look like either of the ones we know.

[MatthewHecht]

@JasonTodd428

I’m not sure.

I just know next month’s readings will somehow answer it. Most likely the creators just thought the joke was much funnier than we did.

@JasonTodd428

backfired attempt

I think it was a great move. It adds in a key difference from JSA, the arc is well wrapped up in the final 2 issues of the Johns run, and it gives crucial tension within the group for Gog to exploit.
Granted I am biased since I have been placed in charge of people older than me before. Seeing the older guys say they are not in charge, constantly ignoring that, and then getting put in their place is something I can easily enjoy. (Word of advice to anybody in that situation- make sure you give all the speeches and assert yourself).

@JasonTodd428

perhaps naive and new to the hero scene they are in my opinion

I doubt that. When the 4 super vets mess up it is normally Star (a very battle hardened hero by this point who was instrumental in defeating the likes of Mordru, Eclipso, Per Degaton, and Spectre) and Cyclone who then fix it. It is Cyclone who helped KC Superman, and Stargirl probably did more actual mentoring than the others combined (as mentioned in issue 26). I think their smiles represent their mentor (Star) and mentee (Cyclone) approach being about friendship and making a more personal connection. There is a reason they all knew The All-Stars had no shot without Star. I might be overthinking this too, since they are both big smilers.

Good eye on the costumes for Robin and Huntress.

[hotstufflouieb]

1. I thought this was a decent filler issue. I like that she caught Zoom by surprise and gained her speed powers back. I had read Flash for years and always liked the idea of a girl speedster in the “Flash Family”

2. I think re-reading it this long after all the events that happened from those years it is seeing the Kingdom Come Superman appear at the end. I do enjoy the fact that the Justice Society feels more like a team of super heroes dealing with the regular person. Doing a pancake breakfast at a firehouse and helping them get a new truck.

3. I think after all of the events from the Crisis books and coming from the Kingdom Come world where things were very bad this Superman sees that it hasn’t gotten to that level of crazy. He hasn’t been here long obviously but he sees that it’s not the world from which he came from. I remember buying these issues brand new and I was hooked. JSA was my favorite monthly title and I couldn’t wait for it to come out monthly.

4. I would think at this point another multiverse. I can’t remember what it ends up foreshadowing.

I’m so tempted to continue reading on but I’ll wait because I don’t want to jump ahead. I’ll keep reading Batman Eternal since I never finished it the first go round. I only had the first 21 issues in trade.

[MatthewHecht]

@hotstufflouieb

I’m so tempted to continue reading on but I’ll wait because I don’t want to jump ahead.

I think it is best to read all of Thy Kingdom Come together (not in one sitting of course), since it is one long character focused storyline with lots of continuity. In fact a few personal parts of it are finished next storyline (mostly involving Atom Smasher). On a re-read I noticed lots of character plotlines I missed the first time entirely.

I suggest finishing Batman Eternal since that is interesting you and then reading all of Thy Kingdom Come.

[MatthewHecht]

The New Stargirl comic gave big JSA news. Johns is writing it again.

[CaptainYesterday]

The future?

[MatthewHecht]

Yes.

[TheCosmicMoth]

@JasonTodd428

“Bells and Whistles” gives a bit of background to Jesse Quick. What did you think of this stand alone story?

In an earlier discussion on this series, I mentioned how I really wanted Damage to cross that line into Atlanta. I was soooo glad he did. I had also forgotten that it was Zoom that messed Grant’s face up in Infinite Crisis. It makes sense that going after Zoom would be what actually pushes Grant over that line. It was cathartic to me to see him do it and I was glad that the rest of the Justice Society stepped up and helped prevent Grant’s arrest.

I actually liked what they did with Jesse Quick’s background story. As an All-Star Squadron fan, it was poignant watching Johnny and Libby’s marriage flame out. Seeing Jesse get caught between her parents and caught up in Johnny’s alternate speedster theory (sorry, Johnny, Max was right all along) was pretty compelling. Having access to the powers of both her parents should help Jesse moving forward.

@JasonTodd428

What was your favorite part of issue #9?

Probably this moment during the Wildcat vs. Wildcat II Charity Brawl:

@JasonTodd428

It was mentioned several times that another grey-haired Superman from another Earth had appeared to condemn the JSA for their mistakes. Do you find it a but convenient that another one has shown up and said this Earth is at least trying?

Convenient? Maybe. Or maybe it was the multiverse trying to balance things out? First it sends them the Superman of Earth-Two which was a brighter, simpler Earth. Of course he would be disappointed by the harsh realities of New Earth. Then they get the Superman of Earth-22 which is a darker, grittier world. New Earth would seem like heaven after witnessing Earth-22 on the brink of destruction. So… maybe there needed to be balance, or, maybe the denizens of New Earth needed to be told that they are the balance. …Or maybe this is all foreshadowing something else entirely.

@JasonTodd428

What do you think it was that Wally and Jay saw while on the Cosmic Treadmill?

Okay, potential spoilers for things like 52, Countdown, and Final Crisis below. First the Flashes saw The Bleed:

By this point, The Bleed from 1999’s The Authority series had been established as what separated the worlds of the multiverse.

Then they got a glimpse of an alternate Earth:

I know what Earth that is. It is actually Earth-2, but it is the post-52 Earth-2 and the pre-New 52 Earth-2. Basically, at the end of the 52 series, it was revealed that the multiverse exists once again. In 52 52, we get to see brief glimpses of the worlds that make up this new multiverse including the new Earth-2:

Notice that headline I circled? I think this is supposed to signal that Power Girl and the Earth-Two Superman are actually from this new Earth-2. But… yeah… this is the Earth-2 the Flashes see on the cosmic treadmill.

Unfortunately, not much more was done with this version of Earth-2. The New 52 swept in and brought a new version of Earth-2 developed by James Robinson. Phew… multiverse stuff… amiright?

The only thing I can’t account for is why the treadmill breaks down and the Flashes see nothing at the end. I like @MatthewHecht 's theory that they are looking at Gog’s old Earth. I was also thinking that it may be Earth-15 which was destroyed by Superboy-Prime in Countdown to Final Crisis #24. Unless… Earth-15 is Gog’s Earth… honestly I can’t remember enough about the Gog story to say. The one thing that throws these theories off though is, when it happens, Wally says something like, “We’re matched up with Universe-2.” Which suggests that they were trying to sync-up with Earth-2 when it happened. Maybe something prevented them from traveling the multiverse like Monarch with his schemes in Countdown to Final Crisis or maybe something going on with Darkseid in Final Crisis itself…? Maybe it’ll all become clear in later issues…

I wanted to mention other things I enjoyed about these issues. I really appreciate how Johns built Kingdom Come into this Justice Society. Earth-22 Superman recognizing Cyclone as Red Tornado was a nice touch. Retconning Starman as the same Starman from Kingdom Come was masterful. You get the sense that New Earth could be heading towards the same fate as Earth-22 if some things don’t change.

I was also psyched by the incorporation of the Judomaster legacy into the Justice Society. Like Commander Steel, Judomaster isn’t a “real” Golden Age character. He debuted in 1965, but his stories were set in the Pacific theater of WWII. As a legacy-guy, I like seeing new heroic legacies incorporated into the JSA, and I’m excited to see more of this new Judomaster, Sonia Sato. Though… I am disappointed in Tiger.

That’s all from me!

[JasonTodd428]

@hotstufflouieb

I thought this was a decent filler issue. I like that she caught Zoom by surprise and gained her speed powers back. I had read Flash for years and always liked the idea of a girl speedster in the “Flash Family”

I have always liked the idea of a girl speedster myself so it was nice to see her get her speed powers back.

@hotstufflouieb

I do enjoy the fact that the Justice Society feels more like a team of super heroes dealing with the regular person. Doing a pancake breakfast at a firehouse and helping them get a new truck.

Yeah, I liked that too but then again I really like seeing super heroes interacting with regular people. I think what this scene is saying is that being a hero isn’t just about the big scale events that involve saving the world or putting their lives at risk its also about these smaller scale events that are no less important than the above.

@hotstufflouieb

I’m so tempted to continue reading on but I’ll wait because I don’t want to jump ahead.

Nothing wrong with that. Read ahead if you like.

[JasonTodd428]

@TheCosmicMoth

In an earlier discussion on this series, I mentioned how I really wanted Damage to cross that line into Atlanta.

I was glad to see him finally cross that line as well. Been waiting for that for a long time. It was also nice to see that the others had his back there.

@TheCosmicMoth

As an All-Star Squadron fan, it was poignant watching Johnny and Libby’s marriage flame out.

Indeed it was. I also found watching Jesse’s own struggle with the legacies of both her parents poignant as well. I felt as if she was being pulled in two directions there.

@TheCosmicMoth

Or maybe it was the multiverse trying to balance things out?

I hadn’t thought of that but it does seem to balance things out a bit.

@TheCosmicMoth

By this point, The Bleed from 1999’s The Authority series had been established as what separated the worlds of the multiverse.

So is The Bleed why we get a “red sky” during Crisis events? I could totally see that being the reason behind it.

@TheCosmicMoth

including the new Earth-2:

I would have loved to have seen what this new Earth-2 entailed. It looks interesting.

@TheCosmicMoth

Phew… multiverse stuff… amiright?

Multiversal shenanigans make my head hurt.

@TheCosmicMoth

The only thing I can’t account for is why the treadmill breaks down and the Flashes see nothing at the end.

For dramatic effect?

@TheCosmicMoth

The one thing that throws these theories off though is, when it happens, Wally says something like, “We’re matched up with Universe-2.” Which suggests that they were trying to sync-up with Earth-2 when it happened

Yeah, that’s what I thought as well. I would think Wally would have been trying to sink up with a “known” or at least a familiar universe such as Earth-2’s rather than some other one that would be less familiar. That is unless Wally unknowingly made some sort of error that resulted in them not being “where” they thought.

[TheCosmicMoth]

@JasonTodd428

So is The Bleed why we get a “red sky” during Crisis events? I could totally see that being the reason behind it.

Huh… I never thought of it like that… The concept of The Bleed was developed long after the red skies became a thing. But- I love that explanation. The universes bleeding in together… Great connection! That should be the reason for the red skies moving forward.

@JasonTodd428

I would think Wally would have been trying to sink up with a “known” or at least a familiar universe such as Earth-2’s rather than some other one that would be less familiar.

Yeah… I feel like they had to be headed for Earth-2 and something must’ve prevented them from getting there. My gut tells me it’s Final Crisis related…