The Psychology Of Supervillains Club - Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy - February 2021

Welcome to The Psychology Of Supervillians Club. This month we will delve and dissect Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy Relationship(s) . Step into their minds and determine what makes them tick with and for each other.

This club will be discussing darker aspects and elements within the DC Universe. These aspects and elements could be viewed as overtly violent, malevolent and possibly offensive to some.

  • We acknowledge that we are not mental health professionals, and are not able to provide any diagnosis or guidance in this regard.
  • This thread does not suggest or support any mental health diagnosis or any guidance of or for people in the real world. We are dealing with purely fictional characters within fictional worlds.
  • Supervillains are potentially driven by deep seated and often dark or disturbing concepts of what they feel is the right thing to do and why the villain is the hero of their own story.
  • We will explore if the supervillain is actually correct in their views and actions, are they justified in what they do and potentially would their fictional worlds be better off if they actually did win and defeat the hero.

The club gives this warning because some may find such discussions disturbing, distasteful, and/or possibly immoral and we want the community to be well aware of what the contents of these discussions can involve.

The Ground Rules: ( Yes…even villainy has to follow a few rules . Don’t take my word for it…Go ask The Legion Of Doom or The Crime Syndicate, they have rules too.)

  • Posts must follow DC Universe Community Guidelines
  • This is a “ safe space ” to explore a sometimes taboo topic…villainy. Why it’s necessary and possibly why villains are often more interesting than the heroes that oppose them.
  • Be respectful of the opinions of others. Did I mention thatPosts must follow DC Universe Community Guidelines
  • There is no such thing as a “right” or “wrong” opinion here.
  • The views expressed are the opinions of the poster and deserve to be acknowledged as a valid opinion, even if you might disagree and debate items. What does that mean? Posts must follow DC Universe Community Guidelines
  • We are dealing with the intricacies of the mind. The one thing we do know is that we can never be ultimately sure what is actually going on in the mind of a supervillian.
  • However, we can conjecture based on what we do know about them and form our own points of view on what makes them tick and have blast while doing it.
  • In case you missed it the 3 times earlier…Posts must follow DC Universe Community Guidelines

Don’t be afraid to be bold, to challenge the status quo, to think in unique ways and be outspoken. Their is no “right” or “wrong” point of view here. There is what we each find in delving beneath the surface and into the mind of our Supervillian Of The Month.

Most importantly, have fun. Enjoy your process. Revel in it. Don’t be afraid to let some of your “evil” out. We’ve all got a bit of it in us somewhere. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t find villains interesting, now would we. :smiling_imp:


Reminder: Posts must follow DC Universe Community Guidelines

Our February 2021 Supervillianesses of the month - Harley Quinn & Poison Ivy Relationship(s)
February is here and that means Valentine’s Day is lurking out there this month. So let’s have a bit of fun & romance from DC’s best (or at least most emotionally supportive) villainess power couple, Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy. Explore the psychological elements of these two characters towards themselves and each other within their relationship to each other. BFFs to Romantic Partners, there is much to chose from.


Below are some comic book resources for Harley Quinn & Poison Ivy Relationship(s) available on DCUI. Some are romantic, others are BFFs.

This is by no means a definitive list.

Reading the entirety of the resources below is not expected.

Comic Resources:

DC Comics: Bombshells - 42

Harley Quinn (2016-) - 25

Injustice; Ground Zero - 21

Heroes in Crisis - 2

Harley and Ivy meet Betty and Veronica - Six issue run

Harley Quinn & Poison Ivy - Six issue run

Gotham City Sirens - 3
Gotham City Sirens - 8
Gotham City Sirens - 18
Gotham City Sirens - 23
Gotham City Sirens - 24

Batman: Harley and Ivy - Three issue run

Video resources
Harley Quinn: The Animated Series.

(Alas, with video not being a part of DCUI, it is no longer here, but it can be found on HBOMAX. If anybody is interested in setting up a watch along for your favorite episodes…GO FOR IT!!)
What resources you use or don’t use is up to you. The only limit is your imagination and deduction.

Use whatever materials you like in building up your case for the psychology. Although noting what you’re basing it on could be helpful as resources for the club and our members.

I know with the current pandemic circumstances, some folks may have more or less time on their hands than normal.

A few questions too ponder

BFFs or Romantic Partners: Which is better and why?

Does their love for each other hold them back, both personally and professionally?

Or is it the opposite…that together they are greater than the sum of their parts?

What are they like and what type of crime are they into together?

Since their “ship” has crashed against the rocks a few times. Has the pain and potential personal growth been worth it?

Without further ado, we take a peek at Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy Relationship(s).
Let the adventure begin!!!


I am curious about Harley and Ivy meet Betty and Veronica. I may have to contribute to the other club that featured it recently.

I do like that Harley’s relationship with Ivy doesn’t seem to be some sort of rebound after her time with (the) Joker. How she and he split is clearly dependent on the telling, but for the most part, H&I have something that is healthy and nurturing.

I believe Sundays 9 PM ET is vacant. I can host HQ:TAS for those with HBO Max. and we can watch as many episodes as we can stand to watch. or we can do something more structured. I can certainly do all the Sundays in February. And though it is (supra?) short notice, we can start with tomorrow.

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Sunday’s at 9est, 8cst, 7mtn, 6pst sounds awesome!!

If you want to start tomorrow, that’s great by me.

H/I vs B/V just looked to fun to pass up. I really wanted something warm, lightheaded & fun. And it’s just a surreal concept for a crossover. :grinning:


Sorry I didn’t see this sooner. I will make the thread and post it on the calendar. I will book that time for all the Sundays in Feb. Please spread the word amongst us, the adjacent and the heroes.

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Thread created. Feedback requested.

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I’m wondering if (a) it might be better to focus on season 2, since that seemed a bit more focused on the Harley/Ivy dynamic or (b) just run the WAL Feb & March. and go through the entire series.

Either way is fine by me.

I think the 4 or 5 episodes over a 2 or 2 1/2 hour long WAL is the best strategy. Starting at set intervals. Since that way if folks couldn’t join 9:00 episode, it makes it easier to join in for the 9:30 episode. Since it’s a specific time start. My $0.03.


As the host, I will create the threads, add them to the calendar, and to report any shenanigans if they occur during the watch.

As to what we watch, that can be by vote or whatever you (and I) decide. And I am pretty much game for just about whatever. I have no objections to starting with the 2nd season. And to watch in set increments, or with intermission(s), makes it easier to stay in sync as well as for late arrivals.

I will update the watch thread as things solidify.

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Just to keep track. Ivy said the ‘i love you’ twice in three episodes so far.

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There is certainly no doubt that Ivy has a “crush” on Harley, and at some level Harley understands that Pam cares, a lot. Especially given that as Dr. Quinzel she diagnosed Pam as misanthropic. A point Frank the plant even drives home when Harley is talking about either teaming up with Harley and when Harley talks about getting a crew.

The question is, is Harley repressing her feelings, since she knows Pam is misanthropic or is Harley so engulfed in her manic obsession still about Joker that she missed it.

I don’t know about a crush. But for whatever Harley did, it made an impression on Pam that Harley is worth caring about. her fake with the Riddler was more about getting Harley to see that Harley is worth caring about. I am looking forward to later when Harley realizes her feelings for Pam.

I read HQ&PI meet B&V as well as that other 6 issue run that seems to occur after Heroes in Crisis (which I think I might check out).

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Ah…the margarita mix.
I think that Oam had “taken a shine” yo Harley way back at Arkham. But after Arkham and the entire inmate population callin BS that the Joker cares for her. Pam realized that the only way for Ivy to “get it” was to experience this it firsthand that Joker’s one true love is Batman, not her.

Pam realized this and created the situation where Harley got to experience the reality of her relationship with the Joker.

I do think seeing Harley’s feelings for Ivy grow as Pam represses hers more and more,!will be interesting emotional arcs for both of them.

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I do like that you call her Pam. Just drives home my nitpick of Gotham the show: Poison Ivy’s name isn’t Ivy, It’s Pam(ela).

And I would disagree with Pam repressing her feelings. I am seeing someone that will explore what someone gives them, but only when they give it. She didn’t start developing feelings for Kiteman until after the ride over the park. From what I remember, we will see something similar when Quinzel wins over Poison Ivy (i just forget when we see it).

For now, its friends and flatmates, and Pam just wants to support her friend as she finds her footing post Joker breakup.

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We should soon be seeing why Pam is so loyal to Harley. I do like when she arrives to bail Harley out, she is sitting, as if on a throne.

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Ivy does seem to like her thrones. It does feel like so many of her entrances are her plants bringing her to the location on a throne-type so Pam has an ego, to be sure.

She has this armor around her heart. That sense of I’m not going to let anybody in so I can’t be hurt. However, Harley just has her number. This is really displayed in the last scene in Batman and Harley Quinn movie, when Harley uses “the nuclear option” to stop Pam.

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I forgot about that Batman and Harley Quinn movie. that was a good romp for the Batman as well as the Harley.

I liked in DCeased when they leave Earth. Pam refuses to leave the green. And Harley refuses to leave her.

despite their rough patches, they are both separate individuals but also a tight unit.

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Harley Quinn TAS is where I got a more full-on glimpse of the romance between Harley and Pam, (Harles & Ives) and I also read the Betty & Veronica crossover. In an alignment, I would think they each are Chaotic Neutral. I was thinking they go into the good and evil category with each instance, but I suppose that makes them more neutral. Sometimes it’s evil (they kill people) but it’s also bad people (perceived) who harm nature or harm people they love.

What I like about their relationship is their intense friendship. I had a friend in high school where it was just a super intense relationship that was platonic but I can see how something like that translates to romantic love. Still, I think they are more presented as soul mates for better or worse. In TAS, they do make each other better. Harley helping Ivy open up and be vulnerable. Ivy helping Harley be considerate and confident. Since neither of them has been in a healthy relationship, I can see why it turned romantic. For Harley to go from Joker to self-acceptance to love, is a strong connection. Same for Ivy, from being alone to Kite Man who was a nice and harmless guy and safe. I think he represented the part of her that was open to relationships and friendships but was still playing it safe, just in case. I also think Ivy’s girl crush on Cat Woman is interesting, because her admiration is similar to Kite Man’s infatuation with her.

In this duo, I see Ivy as the dominant one as she is driven by a clear mission and passion. I’m not sure how much sense this makes but I see Poison Ivy as someone who doesn’t want to be hurt and Harley Quinn as someone who wants to be loved. It’s essentially the same and allows them to have a good dynamic, but I see a distinction between those desires.

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In looking at various incarnations of Harley & Pam I have come to a fairly simple conclusion. They have a bond that is beyond blood or soulmates. There are rarities in this world where you share a connection with someone that transcends all reasonable definitions of friends or family or soulmates. Not everyone (or probably most people) never find a connection like that, but Harley and Ivy have it. Whether it’s BFF platonic or full on lovers, that bond is there. A relationship threw line that is always there, if only seen in the subtext.

Also, as a romantic/sexual pairing, there is a point that gets lost. They have an open relationship (wether or not they choose to act on that openness). That shows a great deal of trust in each other and also points to them both being very sexually aware of themselves as individuals. That level of trust and strength is a credit to that element of their relationship (when it is part of a specific iteration as romantic parters, instead of BFFs.)