Here are a few that I enjoyed: “Panic In the Sky”, “The Day of the Krypton Man”, and “Exile”.
Plus the build-up of the supporting cast at the Planet, at police headquarters, at LexCorp.
Making Metropolis a “real” city like Key Stone, Central City, Opal City, and, of course, Gotham, instead of a copy of New York City.
Actual stakes to storylines because Superman was depowered and no longer a “god-like” figure.
I could go on, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree. And that’s okay because this is art (pop art). And all art is subjective. I love French Impressionism but dislike Cubism.
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Well, Metropolis was a “real” city and fleshed out in the Silver and Bronze ages before Crisis on Infinite Earths even took place. The build of the supporting cast eventually left me cold because it became pretty much like a soap opera. The three stories you mentioned are mostly fine (I actually really dislike “The Day of the Krypton Man,” but whatever…). I wouldn’t call any of them classics. Just straightforward superhero stories.
They actually depowered Superman a bit in 1971 so he was no longer a “god-like figure.” Many miss that when praising Post-Crisis over Pre-Crisis. Even so, the 60’s stories managed to have stakes even with Superman’s incredible power levels. You can have stakes in a story without putting the hero in constant mortal peril (which Superman was rarely in even when he’s been powered down anyway).
Sure. And that’s all well and good. The reason I bring my critiques of the Post-Crisis era up is the “Triangle Era” fan base is very vocal. Because of how vocal you all are, it’s tough to get DC or the character to move on from this era which I don’t think is actually as good as you all make it out to be. I know this does not make me the most popular Superman fan on the boards, but… I don’t care.
Enjoy your comics. I wish you well!
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My top 5 Triangle Era (1990-2001) tales (not counting Death/Return):
- Panic in the Sky
- Time and Time Again
- The Trial of Superman
- Superman Blue/Red (made up of assorted stories, I know, however I tend to see it as one long saga)
- Our Worlds at War
I enjoy them because they’re fun escapist entertainment.
Every good Superman story (no matter the medium) doesn’t have to beat one over the head with emphasizing how important Superman is.
A good story can be just that simply because its fun and entertaining. We don’t need a reminder of why Superman is as important as he is in every story of his, or of those that star other characters from the franchise.
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my favorites from the Triangle Era (outside the Death/ Funeral/ Reign/ Return era)
Dark Knight Over Metropolis (1990): the story that brought me back to comics after more than six years away
Krisis of the Krimson Kryptonite (1990)
Time & Time Again (1991)
Panic in the Sky (1992): not a fan of the Exile arc, but this was great
Dominus Effect 1998
The funny thing about the Byrne Era is that I like other versions of his (and Wolfman’s) creation better. The Triangle Era from when he returns from space until say Zero Hour and the animated series and comics are all more enjoyable for me than the Byrne Era of comics.
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Before posting that question, I had a vision of you replying and picking this.
I specifically set the time period for this question between 1986 and 1999 because we were discussing Byrne’s Superman and the Jurgens/Kesel/Simonson/Ordway and co. era it wrought. I know the “Triangle Era” technically went into 2001 because the numbered triangles were still on the covers of the books. However, the 1999 cut-off was deliberate because some of what Byrne had changed was retconned in 2000 by Loeb and Jurgens and co. were gone.
I never said any of this. I definitely do not think every Superman story needs to emphasize his importance. I also do think there’s room for stories that utilize the support characters. However, I will point out, most of the stories picked so far have been Superman in space stories (or Superman stranded stories) or stories where the 90’s soap opera cast were not heavily featured… Would you say that Clark had to be the “real identity” for most of these stories to be told?
I get this and fine. We all need a little escapism every now and then. Most of the Silver Age stories were escapist and there were plenty of those in New 52. My point is that a majority of the Triangle Era was nothing special. Some of the stories it produced were fine, but they aren’t special enough to justify the claim that you have to characterize Superman just like they did for all time until the rapture swallows DC whole. My point is that when people praise this Clark Kent as Superman era, it’s mostly nostalgia elevating a handful of fun, escapist stories to something more than they really were.
Honestly, I haven’t revisited this one in some time (like, probably since it was published). I’m not sure how I’d feel about it. I know it plays around with the dark, tyrant Superman archetype of the superhero deconstruction days. I know that it “wasn’t his fault.” I’m just not sure how it would hit me at this stage of my fandom.
I get this. In this era, I do appreciate the work of Louise Simonson and Karl Kesel the most despite Byrne/Jurgens/Carlin’s influence. And (most) of the stories listed I would say are… fine… just fine.
I would still back the stories I listed in an earlier post in this thread and my favorite Silver Age stories over every story from the Triangle Era any day of the week. And about 95% of my favorite Superman stories did not need Clark to be Superman’s “real identity.”
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I’m not either.
Its good, but it also drags a lot, and feels as if the writers added ample amounts of padding as it went (dragged) along.
I always forget about this one. It is fun, and now that you mention it, I feel a re-read is in order.
I like what I like, and I will not hesitate to mention one of my favorite tales/periods from my favorite era of my favorite character. 
That’s fine. However, the Triangle Era did begin in late 1990 and run through late 2001, and you asked for our top 5 favorite non-Death/Return stories from the era, so I obliged.
I never said you did. I was making a general point that wasn’t directed at anyone.
Depends. I go back and forth on the “Is Clark the real identity or is it Superman?” because I find both points of view have substantial merit and I never feel it should always be one way or the other.
It should change from time to time (not frequently, but once every decade or so is reasonable), because that makes it interesting for the fans (whether they like it or not, it does provide fodder for discussions, as this thread perfectly exemplifies) and (as a writer myself I heavily endorse the following point) the writers, because they too like to change things up and add variety to their stories so that there’s something fun and interesting to look forward to, rather than trotting out the same 'ol, same 'ol.
Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
If people elevate the Triangle Era (which began after Byrne’s work on each of the three core titles had ended) to a lofty place because they feel the stories have literary and artistic merit that set them apart from the pack or because of nostalgia and nothing more, that’s fine.
That’s why art is great, especially when it comes to the comic book medium. We can have our own perspectives and enjoy certain things for our own reasons, no matter if they synchronize to what everyone else feels, or not.
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Hey, I’ve gone on record saying it’s better than people give it credit for. That being said, I think your love of the angle is only slightly more acceptable to the greater fanbase than my takes 
. Also, it’s influenced by one of the greatest Silver Age stories…
Just sayin’ I set the cut-off to '99 for a reason…
Every time I debate this issue, it always ends up back here. And, yeah, I agree that nostalgia is fine and art is subjective. However, the reason I go back to this debate again and again is because the a good portion Superman fanbase will not move on from this era. Because they don’t/won’t, this prevents the character from evolving in a way that I feel would make him a stronger character and more appealing to a wider/different audience. Would I feel differently if the stories from this era had more literary merit? Probably. But, again, that was part of my point for asking for these story lists. If you like the Triangle Era, great. However, I don’t believe it was special enough to keep Superman stuck there forever. Just like I admitted that it can’t be the 60’s forever, it also can’t be the 90’s forever.
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Its a good thing I don’t give a 
if “the fanbase” approves of what I like or not.
That it is. When I initially read the '90s Blue/Red stuff, it inspired me to check out the Silver Age story, which I also enjoy…just nowhere near to the extent I do of it’s '90s upgrade. 
Why come back to the debate again and again, though?
You have your perspective, which is absolutely fine and legitimate, and those of us who love Byrne (and the Triangle Era that proceeded his Super-work), have ours.
It honestly feels a little like you’re trying to influence people into seeing things your way, and when we don’t, you keep bringing up your perspectives in the hopes that we will eventually see things your way.
You enjoy what you like which is perfectly fine, and those of us who enjoy Byrne and what came later like what they do. There’s room for all, and we can all politely disagree with one another when we don’t see eye to eye.
However, you are a splendid debate partner, so keep 'em coming, Ace.
Speaking for myself, I have moved on from the Triangle Era.
It is my favorite period of modern/modern-ish Superman, but I freely admit there’s plenty of great post-TE Superman content that I geek out over, as well.
Also, should I ever get a gig writing a Superman title (dream big, I say), I wouldn’t take the lazy way out and say “Well, we’re going back to the Triangle Era, because that’s what I like the most!”
No, no, no.
I would create new stories, new characters and new opportunities for Superman to shine greater than ever, because that is what moves a character and its respective franchise forward, not living in the past or dredging it up again (Joe Quesada thinks otherwise, but that’s an entirely different discussion of an entirely different ball of wax for an entirely different time).
Anyway…you clearly enjoy Pre-Crisis Superman the most, which is fine. Hell, I love the Bronze Age era of Superman nearly as much as I love the Triangle Era, so you’ve definitely got a fan-in-arms for certain Pre-Crisis content. 
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Like you, I prefer Superman as the real person and Clark as the disguise, but it doesn’t stop me from enjoying stories from other eras. My favorite era is Superman’s Silver Age Funhouse that includes the entire Superman line. But I still love some clever Golden Age tales, Maggin’s masterpieces from the 1970s, the early triangle period and the Johns/ Busiek era.
I do get what you mean about a certain section of “Byrne Superman fans.” I was on the message boards back in the day to be told Pre-Crisis Superman was juvenile and stupid and he’s never coming back. Then to watch how many of them lost their minds in rage as many things did return step by step was hilarious and quite frankly I enjoyed seeing many of them get their comeuppance.
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This is one of the post-Triangle Era things I just love.
Why it doesn’t get more respect and garner more geek drool, I don’t understand.
Who would say Pre-Crisis Superman is stupid? He laid the foundation for everything to come!
One can like Post-Crisis or beyond Superman all they want, but they should at least respect Pre-Crisis Superman, because you don’t get the latter iterations without him.
Damn kids and their message boards! 
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“90’s upgrade” pshhhh… We’ll agree to disagree there.
Yes.
Not exactly. I am trying to influence the way the character is seen, but I’m not trying to change the minds of the people who are already convinced that Byrne’s Superman and the Triangle era are the end all, be all.
And it does come back to this:
I’ve said before that there is a fair amount of group think on DC message boards. The common group think among a fair section of the Superman fan base is that all or most of the Pre-Crisis material was worthless and that Crisis and Byrne saved the character and made him relatable with the changes they made. Now, I’m not saying that you, @Vroom Vroom, are like this and I’m not specifically calling any one out. I’m just saying that this is the common group think regarding the character on DC message boards in general.
Obviously, I disagree. In disagreeing, I can ignore it knowing that’s not the case (which I have done) and passively let that notion perpetuate unopposed in these spaces. Or I can express my point of view knowing that it will lead to an argument. Now, at this point, I know that I’m not going to change anyone’s mind if that’s what they think they believe. However, by making my arguments I at least air my opinions that wouldn’t necessarily be voiced in a space where most people hold the same (or similar) opinions. By voicing those opinions, instead of hoping I will change the minds of Byrne fans, I’m hoping that I influence or convince fans who might not have connected with the 90’s interpretation or who were interested in getting into the character that there is an alternate way of reading him. It’s more for people who don’t yet have a set take on Superman or who maybe were turned off by the 90’s take. So, now anyone who’s thinking of reading Byrne’s Superman to get into the character may see my take on this thread and may or may not see where I’m coming from. That’s why I debate.
In the past, I have tried to change the minds of those who disagree with me. I’ve approached it non-threateningly. I’ve given them recommendations and said, “Hey, give it a shot.” That was just as successful as the debates in changing anyone’s mind because, mostly, their minds were already made up. They were never going to read what I recommended. That’s fine.
So I’ve switched gears back to what I used to do which is, “Alright, if Byrne and Post-Crisis Superman are going to be this wall preventing new interpretations of this character then I’m going to chip at the wall.” I know it’s effect. Some take it like I’ve kicked their memories in the short pants. Every time I voice an opinion I have 3-5 people replying to me with a dissenting opinion or to tell me why I’m wrong. This is cool. I expect this. On the same token, if people reply to me and disagree then I will respond and challenge their dissention. I am also, admittedly, combative by nature, so, if people respond, sometimes I just can’t help myself.
However, the reason I do it is to offer a differing point of view in an environment where those have become more and more scarce over the years. I know I won’t change any minds, but that doesn’t mean my ideas won’t get through or inspire others who don’t yet have their minds made up.
And, again, I know that doesn’t always make me incredibly popular, but:
I’m glad you haven’t closed your mind to Pre-Crisis or, even, to New 52! Not everyone is like that…
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As Captain Kirk said in Star Trek: Generations, “I thought you might.”
tips his glass Moth’s way with a wink and a smile as he goes to have a sip
I can’t believe any fan who wants to be seen as knowledgeable and be respected by their fellow fans would openly and willingly disparage the Pre-Crisis era.
Pre-Crisis material is of brobdingnagian importance to not just Superman, but the entire DC brand (including its representation in other media) as a whole.
Dispensing verbal vulgarity on Pre-Crisis content is what The Norms who hate comics would do (“Batman in the '30s? How gauche!”), not fans who understand the importance of the period.
Some people…
I’ve been a DC fan for 33 of my 39 (soon to be 40) years. I couldn’t call myself a fan of DC (my #1 favorite entertainment brand of all-time) if I didn’t have a reverence and respect for the Pre-Crisis content, because it literally is the foundation that everything else in the DC firmament (comics and otherwise) is built upon.
Goooo, Pre-Crisis! 
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Eh. It happens all the time. To be fair, it was… well probably still is the commonly held belief. I remember reading this opinion over and over as a kid, and, for a time, it was true for me because I heard someone else say it.
I also don’t want to generalize here because this is not true of everyone, but I found when I started my sad crusade that many of the people I debated had never even read much if any of the Pre-Crisis material. Many of them were just parroting what they had heard about it.
Regardless…
Indeed! And go New 52, as well. My arguments are just as much about that era as they are about Pre-Crisis.
Takes a healthy gulp.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa! That’s my Screwdriver.
snaps his fingers and another Screwdriver appears
That one is yours.
FYI: By “Screwdriver”, I mean “Dr. Pepper”, because I rarely drink and I drink vodka even less.
Bottoms-up, mate! 
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I started reading DC comics in the spring of 1966 at the tender age of ten. My very first comic was Superman # 189 “Krypton Lives Again” by Otto Binder and Wayne Boring. My first Batman comic was issue # 183 “A Touch of Poison Ivy” (the 2nd Ivy story) by Bob Kanigher, Sheldon Moldoff, and Joe Giella, plus a second story, “Batman’s Baffling Turnabout” by Gardner Fox, Sheldon Moldoff, and Sid Greene. You can thank The Adventures of Superman and the Batman TV shows for those purchases.
But to illustrate that I have no disdain for the Silver Age/Pre-Crisis Era, the very first comic I bought as a kid that wowed me, that pulled me in by the throat, was Flash # 163! It is the famous cover with Flash holding up his scarlet-covered hand imploring the reader to buy the book in order to save his life. How can a ten-year pass that up? These are the comics of my youth. I love these books! I treasure them to this day. If my equal passion for the Byrne/Jurgens/Triangle Era era has in any way given the impression that Silver Age comics (Let’s not forget what Stan, Jack, and Steve were doing concurrently at the other company.)–that Silver Age Superman comics are inferior in any way to the rest of the DC library, then I must apologize.
About a year later, in the spring of 1967, Superman # 199 hit the stands! " Superman’s Race With The Flash!’ by Jim Shooter, Curt Swan, and George Klein. Do you want to talk about a geek-out moment? There it was a beautifully rendered cover by Carmine Infantino and Murphy Anderson of Superman and The Flash taking off from the starting line (the entire Justice League of America cheering them on in the background) super-speeding right into my grubby little hands. In retrospect more than half a century later, I believe that was when my lifelong love affair with these four-color wonders began.
Peace, fellow fans.
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If we could yoink a Time Sphere from the LOSH or Rip Hunter, I would program 1967 into the thing and snag several copies of that book.
Oh, and I’d snag a lot of Silver Age Marvel books, too.
Newsstand employee: “I’ve got a whole stack of X-Men #1 back here, if you want. Been collecting dust since '63, but they still look good.”
Me: “I want, I want!”
You bet I’d resell some of those in the present day.
Comic store employee: “Where do you keep getting these Silver Age books from? They’re in immaculate condition.”
Me: “Oh, I have a…friend in time, let’s say.”
If only…
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Some folks, apparently more altruistic them comic book fans, would use that time machine to return to the past and rectify great wrongs. Me? I would return to April 1938 (a roll of quarters firmly clenched in my hand) and buy as many copies of Action Comics #1 I could find.
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No worries! You were just expressing why you enjoy the Triangle Era. I didn’t think anything you said was particularly derogatory of the past.
I was just providing context for my arguments.
Otto Binder is one of my favorite creators. Superman #199 is a classic and, in my opinion, a must-read!
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I would snag oodles of Action #1, then go to '39 and yoink a ton of 'Tec #27.
The fun one could have with a time machine. 
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For the majority of my life, I never really understood why Byrne’s change was so amazing. That is, until I really thought about Snyder’s Superman, and what makes that version so awful.
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