So…really been trying to give this a chance. I’m freaking love Doom Patrol, I think it’s some of the best TV out there. Swamp Thing was great, (cut down in it’s prime…) and Titans I’m a bit lukewarm on, but it’s not horrible. But Star Girl…and I was all in on this show from the annoucnement…but since the trailers…since the costume designs…and now seeing it in action…this show is just so…CW feeling. All of the other DC shows don’t feel like a network TV series… They don’t have the stench of teenage dramatics and really poor dialogue and cheesy cliches. I guess Star Girl’s character and what it’s based on could be factoring in, but I Feel like this show could have still had the emotional weight and depth of Doom Patrol, but it’s taken so many shortcuts and the easy way out and the …pop music… It just comes across as just another teen show with a very shallow super hero glazing on it. I know this isn’t going to be the popular opinion because I’m on a DC site so that’s fine, feel free to disagree, but this is the first series that I"m actually fully disappointed in…
I am with you. Love Doom Patrol and because of its first 3 episodes, I view Stargirl differently now.
But everything doesn’t have to be always dark and gritty. Variety is great and DCU originals very much has all their base covered.
I disagree. It’s adorable and i love it.
I don’t know, I’m going to respectfully disagree with your sentiment. For me, it’s the first family friendly live action show DCU has offered, something I can comfortably watch with my kids. My 9 (soon to be 10) year old can’t wait for Mondays to watch the new show with her dad, and that is something I really appreciate. As for the show itself, the premise leaves me wanting a little bit. So these kids found a bunch of props and all of a sudden they’re heroes? They need to somehow earn it. Seems like last episode addresses that a bit; let’s see where they go with it. All in all though, I find it a very welcome addition to the service. Good to offer a variety. Something for everyone .
Just to put out there, I love Doom Patrol. One of my all time favorites. I’m not a Doom Patrol hater. But everything DC offers doesn’t need to be the same tone and age rating. Not every show needs to be mature. As @moro pointed out, DC was lacking diversity in original programming. Swamp Thing, Titans, Doom Patrol, and Harley Quinn all target mature audiences. The only other family friendly original on the service prior to Stargirl’s release was Young Justice. And, even then, only the 3rd season was new for that! Geoff Johns’ campy mix between the old and new is definitely not for everyone. But just because you don’t share his (or the fans of the show’s) taste, doesn’t mean the show is actually of poor quality.
Stargirl is by no means a bad show and DEFINITELY not the worst show quality wise that DC has offered on the platform. I think Titans takes the cake there. First, let’s talk about Stargirl to be fair, though. I think the main and most major flaw that the show suffers from is poor dialogue/writing. Characters just don’t talk and interact the way REAL people do (particularly Mike, ugh). Now, I personally chop that up to Geoff Johns trying to emulate the writing style of early comic books and superhero serials, but it’s still issue for me. I understand it being difficult to take some things seriously because of this flaw. THAT SAID, to say the show carries no emotional weight is just not true. It’s completely comfortable handling issues like: sexual harassment, abusive relationships, bad home life, corrupt government, death/murder, social anxiety/ineptitude, etc. All emotional (i’d argue, mature) topics that carry weight. The show falls on it’s face sometimes with it’s dialogue, but it has the heart and the messages.
Titans, on the other hand, has a rushed and poorly guided plot filled with cliche characters and bad writing, bad visual effects, unclear character motivations, etc. I’m happy to go into more detail on the failures of that show on a technical level in PMs, but I don’t want to pull from the topic too much.
Basically, Stargirl probably isn’t your cup of tea. Nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t have to be. But to argue it is of poor quality on a technical level is just incorrect. And to use the phrase, “so CW”, as an insult is extremely rude to the fans of those shows. No one is more or less of a DC fan based on what they do or don’t like from the characters/adaptations. It’s extremely rude to imply otherwise.
As a fan of both CW shows and DCU shows, saying something is “so CW” elicits an eye roll and a groan.
The CW gets an unfair stigma. I love how they launched an entire television universe, brought some famous characters into the popular culture (example: the Reverse Flash), they’ve had numerous shows, annual crossovers and even managed to do Crisis on Infinite Earths with some surprising cameos we would never think possible…but still people downplay it as a whole.
Without the Arrowverse’s success (and I’m gonna say it, Smallville too!) you don’t have DCU original shows. They laid the ground work. So why do they get looked down upon? It doesn’t make sense.
Also, all of them are produced by Berlanti. They share a lot of people on the executive level.
So I’m really glad you all enjoy it so much. The more DC support the better in any fashion. And I’m sure the intention to make this show more light hearted and less…heavy than say Doom Patrol is very much intentional. I don’t think it’s aimed for me. Which is fine! It just sucks because I enjoy the character but the target audience isn’t me.
Hmm Not sure I’d say this is better than Titans. But Titans had two full seasons. So hard to compare just yet.
Also I’m not sure how you can say this show isn’t ‘as fast’ as Titans… The first episode tackled story beats that could have atleast been 3 episodes. Her getting the staff, the backstory, fighting, and learning who her step father is, and the introduction of STRIPE is a long to cram into one episode…
To me this show seems more like taking the Star Girl story lines and wrapping a random CW show around it. Contrast it with Doom Patrol or Swamp Thing which are about Doom Patrol and Swamp Thing. If that makes any sense. There’s nothing deeper here… I feel like those two shows are a nutriteous well balanced meal…and Stargirl is a bowl of fruit loops…with no milk.
Remember, just my own opinions here folks. With have differing opinions…
Hey! Just want to start this that I don’t think either of us are right are wrong in what makes a DC show good. Once again, as both of us have stated, mostly a matter of taste. Neither of us are more or less of a DC fan because of it. I hold great respect for you and your opinions. (Always like to clarify that whenever I talk about this kind of stuff! )
I chose the wrong word when describing Titans. Fast isn’t accurate. Poorly paced or inconsistently paced feels more accurate to me. You’re right in the fact that Stargirl has a fast pace at times. The first episode, as you mentioned, could have been three episodes. But there’s a difference between could and should. When considering pacing, the thought process we should follow is, “What does our audience need to know (or character need to do) and what is the most efficient way of doing it.” Stargirl’s first episode could have been dragged out for three episodes, but it didn’t need to be. What does the audience learn from the first episode:
1.) The origin of the cosmic staff.
2.) An idea of Courtney and Pat’s personalities/histories.
3.) How the staff ends up in Courtney’s possession.
4.) What threats Courtney will now have to face with this power.
Each of these could be drawn out into their own episode which fully explain them in detail, but they don’t need to be. The first episode does a great job at introducing us to each of these topics which will slowly be revealed in greater detail as the series goes on.
Titans, on the other hand, will spend the entire first season building up Trigon only for him to be defeated in the opening of S2E1. Imagine if The Avengers films spent defeated Thanos in the opening of Endgame, and the rest of the film was spent focusing on some new villain. The show has crammed at least 3 different storylines in two seasons. There’s just no way to do that adequately. I know CW will shorten and change comic arcs in various seasons, but (as you have clearly pointed out) they are two completely different styles and ways of telling a narrative. They’ll spend an exorbitant amount of time explaining the origins of a character, have plot-lines that don’t connect until the very end of the season, characters making the same mistakes over and over again, shallow characters spewing cliche dialogue, etc.
I think it was episode 3 where I was worried the show was leaning CW, but the last three episodes were great. Pop music? The show is aimed at a younger audience, why would they not use pop music? (Although the latest episode used Deodato’s ‘Thus spoke Zarathustra’. and if you did not catch that classic jam you really should not be commenting on the musical choices.) DC has a wide fan base, diffent shows are aimed at different facets. We are all here because we are fans. I am enjoying SG even though I am not the target viewer. This is better than anything else I have seen on the CW. Don’t like it? Don’t watch it. Nitpicking it serves no purpose.
It’s hive mind. Same reason the world think nickel back sucks and Aquaman is lame.
I actually prefer this show to any of the other shows, because I can watch it without headphones. My family has a thing about swear words and graphic content. Gotta watch that stuff with headphones. But Stargirl is awesome, because I can actually watch it with my family. I’ve been begging for a more wholesome show from DCU for a while. Most of the other shows go all out and get very indecent. So I prefer Stargirl. Even if it’s more childish, that’s kind of why I like it. Plus it’s got the JSA and the only thing that comes close to that is the Flash with Jay Garrick.
Great reply! And I agree 100% with ya. The diversity of the shows is a strength here with these DC shows. And I will say that your comment on Titans Season 1 is spot on, but I’ll challenge and say that season 2 does a decent job in rectifying that poor pacing.
Lol hoo kay dude…
Haha! That’s great, and as an adult viewer, I didn’t think that this was an issue for DC shows, but yea…though I’m curious, how do they feel about you watching something very mature like Doom Patrol or swamp Thing? that is far more sexual and graphic? Surprised they’re okay with the DC content in general. Glad you’re enjoying it though! And yea I’ll admit, despite my disappointment with this show overall, the inclusion of the JSA is really cool, but for me it loos very ‘made for tvish’ Some of the costume designs here are not very flattering
While I like Stargirl overall I do agree with several points made. In terms of emotion/depth Doom Patrol has an advantage since the show’s much more focused on the characterization of the team rather than super-hero antics, bunch of villains and family dynamics which Stargirl has to balance.
In retrospective now 7 episodes into Stargirl there are certain things involving Courtney’s character and especially Cindy Burman’s character that feel rushed (short-cuts as you might say). On the opposite end Brain Wave’s son is getting gradual development which feels like we’ll get satisfying payment on whereas Cindy’s development felt more like a shot-gun to the face the way she went from a 1-dimensional character into quickly going through arcs and becoming a competent villain in 1 episode. I feel similar to Courtney’s ability as a hero seeming so far above her team even tho the only training we’ve seen is her doing flips and tricks in the park.
My worry is that within 1 episode the team will go through a training montage (with pop music as is the tradition) and suddenly they’ll be on par with The Injustice League. I’ve liked how in the fighting sequences with the ISA the New JSA has been shown to struggle but there needs to be the right amount of time and balance placed into training these teens to go up against the seasoned villains so hopefully it doesn’t feel like corners were cut just to get us to the point where both teams are on par with each-other. I’ll give credit to Titans Season 2 that we saw multiple sequences of Gar training and that training did pay off down the line.
As others said not all the DC Universe show’s need to be dark/explicit. I personally prefer a mix of light and dark which Stargirl does provide. Coming into the show I thought of it more as ‘CW-like’ since it’s branded as more family friendly and besides some of the issues (school drama) overall I’m not disappointed since there are enough glowing aspects to the show that’s kept me watching.
My limit is Titans. I can’t take DP. I skip quite a few scenes in Titans as well. But I haven’t watched DP or HQ. I’ve watched most of Swamp Thing. But I haven’t finished yet.
I love the show. If the quality is good as well as the story to me it makes no difference. Variety in content is good.
Berlanti has produced every Cwverse show and every DCU show except Swamp Thing.
Stargirl is stylized, as was Geoff Johns Star and STRIPE run.
I find it amusing when people say cliche dialogue. Cliches are cliches for a reason. They are common. Look around, the world and the people speaking in it use cliches all the time. If you’re actually looking for realistic dialogue, the use of cliques is critical.
The fact is for all garbage spewed by critics and fans alike. They actually don’t want realistic portrayals of characters.
Courtney/Stargirl being a teen reminds me of Peter/Spider-Man. It’s a cool and interesting dynamic. The fact that it’s about legacy is awesome!