[SPOILER] Were Raven and Donna Coded Before?

No, I am thinking of the current Infinite Frontier/Post Death Metal Earth 11. the comic I linked to DC's Very Merry Multiverse #1 is the current post Death Metal earth 11.

the last paragraph is me overthinking it.

It all matters, because it all happened. The origin of Earth 11 as established in The Multiversity: Guidebook #1 is still canon, as is everything else. And since that story was post-Dark Nights: Death Metal, it does not carry over backwards to the pre-anti-crisis continuity, but it is equally canon with everything else that has ever happened. So because of this, the post-Flashpoint revelation of how Earth 11 came to be is canon, as are the male Amazons of the pre-Flashpoint Earth-11. Therefore, it appears that the Amazons of the current timeline are still male, but they are why Earth 11 is the way it is, and are still ancient Greek so my point still stands.

Actually, Flashpoint was a timeline-altering event, not a multiversal-altering event. Flashpoint only affected earth prime/0/New earth. Convergence on the other hand affected the multiverse far more than Flashpoint did as Convergence negated Crisis on Infinite Earths.
this is why we have two multiverses now.

Flashpoint did affect the whole multiverse, since New Earth was part of the timeline for most other realities. Two of the most noteworthy examples are Earth-16, which before the Flashpoint was home to an alternate version of Young Justice w/ founding members Dick Grayson and Wally West, but is now Earth-Me, a world where evil was finally defeated forever and the new generation of supers lead boring, self-obsessed lives, and Earth-33, which before the Flashpoint was a mystical world home to Bat-Mage and Super-Mage, but is now a world without superheroes, which chronicles the rest of the omniverse as fiction and is home to one very angry Kryptonian. But either way, that doesn’t discredit my point about Earth 11 probably following ancient Greek concepts of sexuality.

Also, there are way more than two multiverses, there’s an entire Infinite Frontier.

This is somewhat simplified and does not go into the darker side of this subject. The ancient Greek concept of sexuality was you grew out of same-sex attraction when you reached adulthood. Men and women were somewhat segregated in society in greek culture until marriage and in some city-states like Sparta even afterward.
However, concepts of modesty were different back then compared to now too.

well as I view it there are about 6 DC multiverses: Live action, Cartoon, video game, Multiverse 1(comic current which does have some versions of game universes), Multiverse 2 (original multiverse) Dark multiverse and possibly multiverse 3 New earth, because again convergence did stop the destruction of the original multiverse. however each of these multiverses has an infinite amount of worlds, however, this used to be limited to just 52 universes in the new earth era. Really multiverse theory should give you a headache as its complacated.

It’s hard to dive further into this subject without getting too far into explicit sexual descriptions, but basically, as you can see here, it’s a lot more complicated and… Well, it’s… It’s complicated. But basically, I expect Earth 11 would maybe be… Well, it’s tough to say whether they’d have inverted or altogether abolished the absurd distinctions of… See section 2 paragraph 1 in the link above… But either way, it would be drastically different from our 21st-century American concepts of sexuality. And of course men and women were segregated, they’ve been segregated ever since the first clothing salescaveperson to realize they could double their profits if they assigned you different clothes based on a random aspect of your physiology (again, can’t go too much further here).

Well, yes, it is complicated. I actually talked to HCQ about this, and he said, “The statistics have not been made clear, but the idea is that every part of DC continuity is now part of the puzzle.” So the post-Crisis Arrowverse multiverse, the video game multiverse, and every individual incarnation of main comic continuity co-exist, as do, arguably, realities that have crossed over into DC continuity, like the pre-Secret Wars Marvel multiverse and the TMNT/Archie multiverse. Some realities overlap between multiple multiverses, like Earth-Prime/Earth-1218/Earth 33, which exists in the pre-Crisis, post-Flashpoint, and original Marvel multiverses, but Earth 12 is unclear, since it could overlap with another multiverse, but there are enough unknown realities in the post-Flashpoint multiverse that it could be one and the same with the DCAU multiverse.

I actually have studied Greek and Roman history for fun (i enjoy history) via audiobooks by the teaching company. so I was aware of it and it actually gets darker than just that.
Yes I think this earth would be more tolerant of sexual identity, but pansexual would not be the norm as that involves gender blindness.

actually, that would be more really 1800CE-1850ish CE as before the industrial revolution you had to buy or make your own cloth, then make the clothing up until the industrial revolution. its not until the advent of the sewing machine that the clothing industry was viable outside the wealthy. by segregated I mean at least in the cities men and women were kept separate outside the marketplace and public baths in Greek society unless you had servants or another word that starts with S.

No clue who that is as I suck with acronyms. but yes it’s complicated and up to interpretation. but there are two separate multiverses connected by the crack in the multiverse that Barry Allen created in Infinite frontier.

Oh, sorry, it’s @HubCityQuestion.

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Well, I didn’t know that, but that was the introduction of the garment industry into the 2nd millennium. I still believe there was a caveperson 170,000ish years ago who came up with the idea of differentiating clothing based on sex, either for money or just because they were a weirdo who loved finding different ways to sort things, which I can relate to.

To be honest, Raven mostly kept to herself while she and Donna were on the team together. But there’s a steamy horomonal undercurrent of energy between every member of the Teen Titans in those early years, in an attempt to capture popular teen dramas. There are a lot of scenes where the girls all provide emotional support to Raven, but the specific dynamic between Raven and Donna Troy isn’t explored too much.

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Well, you’re the expert. @BatJamags made a good point, though, right?

Oh yeah. There’s definitely a queer reading to be made here of Raven, specifically, and every Amazon is at least a little queer-coded. They’ve just never had much one-on-one time.


actualy i think clothing was chosen for practicality of the weather condition, then evolved from there down gender lines… a fun way to test this would be with a contest here were we ask some artists to post a picture of what that think would make a male hero like say batman look powerful and what the think a female character like Catwoman look strong by having them design new motief suits (keeping it pg 13)

Well, this was certainly long enough ago that we’ll never know which of us is right…

You may have just uncovered the hidden message of Gravity Falls. I’m only six episodes in, so it’s possible (it’s Disney, so I’d say probable) that Mabel had a non-creepy relationship with a guy some time in the remaining 34, but I think I might finally understand her shirt in episode 5. I can’t help but wonder if her “boy-crazy phase” was always part of the story or if Hirsch would’ve skipped that part entirely, since he said that The Owl House - you know, the absolute best Disney show, which was canceled explicitly for its unapologetic queerness - was the queer story he didn’t get to tell with Gravity Falls. I might be reading too much into which character the flag was hidden on, though… In the immortal words of the curator, “Who knows. Who. Nose.”


I’m not exactly a Titans expert, but I can’t recall seeing much from Raven and Donna in the main continuity that I would classify as coded. The Donna ships that I can remember were Roy Harper and her eventual husband, Terry Long (who I never liked, but that’s besides the point). Then Raven had her potential ships with Wally West and eventually Beast Boy. Off the top of my head, I can’t even think of any memorable moments between Raven and Donna (I think the great Batgirl, @DC89, may be able to shed more light since I trust her more with Titans things).

That being said, in an alternate reality, I can see that pairing making sense. Donna represents the light side of magic and Raven represents the dark. Opposites attract. And, yeah, the possibility for Donna to be bisexual is there (with her Amazonian heritage).

Basically, I can see how the pairing would make sense, but I don’t think there is strong evidence to suggest they were coded.

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Like Cloak & Dagger. :white_heart: :black_heart: