[RR: Jason Todd] Legends of the Boy Wonder: Mar. 16-29

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Thanks, Mr. Dibny!

The Renegade Robins Club welcomes Max Allan Collins and Mike W. Barr as they take over the writing duties for Batman and Detective Comics, respectively! But first, we’ll look at the tie-in issues for the first major post-Crisis event, Legends!

Join the club today!

And don’t forget to check out the Robin Month celebrations all across the community!

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Click these drop-down menus for some bonus info:

Bird Sightings

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  • Jason appears in Legends #2, 3, 5, & 6! (It doesn’t go well for him.) His presence during the event is also noted in Wonder Woman #8.

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Background

  • Magpie debuted in John Byrne’s The Man of Steel #3, which featured the first meeting of Superman and Batman in the post-Crisis timeline.

  • G. Gordon Godfrey (the guy stirring up all the trouble in Legends) is actually Glorious Godfrey, first seen in Jack Kirby’s The Forever People #3.

  • Doctor Moon first appeared in Dennis O’Neil’s Batman #240, working for Ra’s Al Ghul, but he soon struck out on his own in stories such as Wonder Woman #200.

  • Slam Bradley premiered all the way back in Detective Comics #1, while Elongated Man (a 'Tec back-up story regular) got his start in The Flash #112.

  • Old Sherlock Holmes helped Hawkman back in Flash Comics #69. His ghost assisted Deadman in DC Special Series #8, but he appears to have gotten better since then…

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Get a cave, you two!

Here’s our schedule: 2020-03-16T05:00:00Z → 2020-03-29T05:00:00Z

Week 11 Reading (Eight Issues)

I. Legends Tie-Ins

  1. Batman #401
  2. Detective Comics #568

II. One Batman Too Many

  1. Batman #402
  2. Batman #403

III. The Last Laugh

  1. Detective Comics #569
  2. Detective Comics #570

IV. Stand-Alone Stories

  1. Detective Comics #571
  2. Detective Comics #572
Discussion Questions
  1. What did you think of the Legends tie-in story? How does it compare to the Crisis tie-in?
  2. What is your impression so far of the Max Allan Collins take on Batman and Robin?
  3. What is your impression so far of the Mike Barr & Alan Davis take on Batman and Robin?
  4. Which of the stories did you enjoy the most? Which was the best showcase for Jason?
  5. How do you feel about the resolution of the Catwoman story from Doug Moench’s run?

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Yikes! Pump the breaks, DC!

Poll Question: What other classic detectives should Jay get to meet?

  • Auguste Dupin
  • Hercule Poirot
  • Sam Spade
  • Nancy Drew
  • The Shadow
  • Peter Gunn
  • John Shaft
  • David Addison
  • Ace Ventura
  • Veronica Mars

0 voters

Jason Todd will receive his shiny new origin story in two weeks! Next week, witness Damian Wayne’s promotion to Robin alongside Dick Grayson’s Batman!

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Side note: one of the issues we’re reading this time, Detective Comics #571, inspired an episode of The New Batman Adventures, Never Fear. As usual, Barr gets no credit.

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Well now I’m gonna want to watch it and compare the two. Also this could be WAL material just sayin’. :stuck_out_tongue:

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We can add it on the tail end of the other episode we’re hosting this week if you want.

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Sure why not. You want to make a seperate post for it or should I adjust the post I already made?

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I’m a “Why make two topics when one will do?” kind of person. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Yeah me too. I’ll add it in then.

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If I may editorialize for a bit…

The question sometimes comes up: “What is your favorite run on Batman?” Well, we’re starting it here. It’s a very, very short run, but it’s a run that best encapsulates the spirit of the Golden Age Bill Finger stories while still modernizing them just enough to avoid feeling stale. The Barr/Davis run on Detective Comics is my Batman.

Here is the first part of an interview with Mike Barr. (The second part is interesting too, but it focuses more on his time writing Batman and the Outsiders.)

And here are some discussions of the run on various sites:

  1. The Movie Blog
  2. Comic Book Resources
  3. More Fun Comics
  4. Not a Hoax! Not a Dream!
  5. Nothing But Comics
  6. Westfield Comics
  7. Collected Editions
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Cool. Since I’m not currently able to go to work these will help pass the time.

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Quick question about the Legends crossover, for anyone who’s read it – were all the issues as inconsistent on what G Gordon Godfrey looked like, or was it just these Batman issues?

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I think these issues were the earliest tie-ins to the event, which might explain why there wasn’t a correct model yet. Godfrey seemed fairly consistent in everything I’ve seen outside of that Detective Comics issue. I don’t know why he was Rush Limbaugh there. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I can’t think of a single reason why anyone would use that media personality for a story like this…nope…not at all. :rofl:

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These were the earliest tie-ins, but I still find it a bit odd that the appearances didn’t match between Batman & Detective with them both having the same editor. I would think Denny would have noticed that right away.

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Denny had just taken the reins from Len Wein with these very issues, so maybe that’s part of the problem, too.

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Could be at that.

Also it doesn’t matter what he looks like G. Gordon Godfrey is massively annoying. I can’t stand him.

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I guess the similarities between the two would be that neither crossover has a huge impact on the issues. Both storylines are just extra flavoring in the background but don’t drive the story. These Legend tie-ins really reflect the theme of the main series, though.

I love the Collins run, however I wouldn’t hold these issues up as a good example of it. These feel more like fill in issues they had to pop out real quick before Year One. And I don’t think they work real well back to back…it’s almost like the same story being told twice in a row.

I’ve never read these before and I can definitely see the charm. I really liked Davis’ rendition of Robin.

I enjoyed the Sherlock Holmes tale the most, but I think the Scarecrow issue best highlighted Jason. It showed some of his uniqueness and worked in his inherent impatience. I had a problem with that story, though, because I don’t understand how a lack of fear just makes you flat out stupid.

I never knew it has one and I’m not sure if needed one, really. But it wasn’t bad. I really liked the Joker in those issues.

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That’s probably another case of the writers/editors trying to figure out what is or isn’t in continuity after the Crisis. I suppose they could have just risked the ire of the fans and said in the letter column, “The three-year run you just read doesn’t count at all!” And really, that’s how they eventually handled it anyway. (Barr’s run pretty much gets swept under the rug.) But if the recent issues were still canon, then they needed to address Selina’s role in the Bat-Family somehow.

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What did you think of the Legends tie-in story? How does it compare to the Crisis tie-in?

Both stories were decent enough, but they were basically just one-shots with a throughline of Rus–I mean, G Gordon Godfrey sowing seeds in a way that kind of connects to what’s happening to the main story. I think I more prefer the Crisis storyline, as it felt more important to the story of the series and used the themes of it’s tie-in to much better effect.

What is your impression so far of the Max Allan Collins take on Batman and Robin?

This was one I was looking forward to, because I’ve really liked Collins’ other work with the likes of Road to Perdition, his work with/around Mickey Spillane, and his Ms Tree books/comics. This start to his run on Batman was…okay. Like, it’s not offensive, but it’s kind of there. It felt like a rehash of what Moench did with the Killer of Night. I’m hoping that once we get into Carjacking Jason.

What is your impression so far of the Mike Barr & Alan Davis take on Batman and Robin?

Oh man, I was not expecting it to be so funny. Like, it feels like a spiritual successor to the Batman '66 show, with just a little more danger and drama.

Which of the stories did you enjoy the most? Which was the best showcase for Jason?

I’d definitely say the Barr issues overall, and the best showcase for Jason was the Scarecrow story.

How do you feel about the resolution of the Catwoman story from Doug Moench’s run?

I…I dunno, I get it, the Catwoman being an antagonist is an iconic part of who she is as a character, making her a vigilante patrolling alongside Batman kind of feels like declawing her a bit, but I don’t know if having to revert her back to villainhood is the only way to fix that. Like, right now in the Batman title we got to see a Catwoman who is with Batman but is still her own character with agency.

I will say that I do appreciate that it doesn’t tear things down by making it so she knowingly betrayed Batman. While the mindwiping I suppose is borderline fridging her, it at least gives the option that it could somehow be undone, if that makes any sense.

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That does bring up an interesting point. This is the Joker’s first appearance in a Denny O’Neil-edited Bat-issue, and he is already beginning his trend of shredding the Bat Family to pieces. His next appearance will be at the start of the new Jason origin story, where he provides the inciting incident for Dick’s firing. His next appearance after that is The Killing Joke, and his next appearance after that is A Death in the Family. Notice a trend?

(He makes a few appearances outside of the Denny books during this period that I haven’t mentioned here, but you still see my point.)

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  1. To be honest I didn’t really care for the Legends tie-ins all that much. I liked the Crisis one better.

  2. I liked Collins ’ take well enough but at the time I always had the feeling he was treading water during his run.

  3. It was a lot of fun and reminded me a lot of the Batman '66 show. I’ll probably be re-reading it again very soon.

  4. The Scarecrow story was my favorite and it also happens to be the one I thought showcased Jason the best.

  5. I didn’t care for the resolution to be honest because I think there was a better way to handle it then with a cliche mindwipe. I hate mindwipes and think they are oftentimes a literary device used only when a writer can’t think of any other way to write their way out of a situation not of their own making. The only thing good about it was that Selina didn’t knowingly betray Batman, which makes her an innocent in this.

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