Rewrite the DCEU

Looks formulaic. Sequels need to come when creators have the ideas ready, not to fit a release pattern.

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I did not care for any of them.

You can have films have their own styles and tones that stand on their own while remaining connected. Once again, if I pick up a Shazam! comic I expect a unique experience from a Batman comic, but can still 100% believe them being in the same universe. Not the case with films. The issue isn’t the fact that they have different tones. The issue is that the film universe was built and initiated with a distinct and difficult tone for other films to build off of.

Once again, if it can work in the comics, it can work in the films too. I dont know how many times I can repeat that point. I appreciate your views and this discussion though.

Why do you need to build off of other films??? That’s the point/problem I’m talking about.

No it doesn’t because we’ve just established that tones make things either too comedic aka mcu or too serious aka dceu. And it’s difficult for other films to build off of that.

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Reminds me of this

Or the iPhone, call of duty, fast and furious series, etc.

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You don’t “need” to. I just like when they do for superhero films. It’s fun/cool to have a connected universe full of different characters being able to interact with each other. Do I NEED Flash and Green Lantern to exist in the same universe? No. Is it fun when they cross paths every once and a while and interact? Is it nice to have a fully realized/fleshed out universe built across numerous comics/films/shows that’s fun to explore/learn more about? Yes!

My issue isn’t with two films in the same universe having the same tone. You can have two completely different styled characters exist in the same world no problem. The issue I have with the DCEU being built isn’t that one film is too serious and another one is too comedic. My issue is that they specifically BUILT OFF OF a film with a very specific/niche tone and view on the characters that is limiting to the rest of the universe as a whole.

You can have a dark Batman and a playful Superman exist in the same universe no problem. It’s been done outside of the comics in shows and movies already (Batman TAS to JL or the whole DCAU) . The DCEU is the only major flop of this so far in my opinion. A connected universe isn’t the death of creative vision, artistry, and unique tones. It just doesn’t work when you build it off a film that limits other ones from being able to explore new ideas.

Ok, that’s fine. But me and many other people feel that that just limits and restricts these films in someway or another. I don’t like to feel cheated or lied to and I know plenty of other people don’t either.

This is EXACTLY what the mcu did with their universe. The whole mcu is silly and goofy. Did you even watch my mcu criticism video I posted?

I hate connectivity, because this scenario dominates the MCU.

To understand Infinity War apparently I have to have seen Guardians 2, Thor 3, Avengers 2, Captain America 3, and several others. I do not want to see most of those movies so now it is just confusing. All but two of those I have no interest in ever seeing again, so by the time Infinity War comes out I am just watching a confusing mess. This is why I have not seen a single Marvel Film since Ant-Man 2.

Meanwhile when the DCAOM goes stand alone I can actually understand everything, and get the actual movie experience (instead of watching a glorified tv show with long hiatuses), and I get the full emotional experience in one sitting.

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No, I didn’t watch the video. I dont really have the time to, nor do I care about it that much. I hope that comes across as offensive. It’s not that I don’t care about the video/your thoughts and opinions. It’s just that I make up my mind on my own. I watch a movie (or consume any type of media) not based on the reviews of others but my own critiques and thoughts.

The MCU is far from perfect and I do have an issue with their struggle to push beyond the typical tone (though things like Daredevil, Punisher, Doctor Strange, Winter Soldier, and more have no issue taking on a serious tone/theme). But I think that isn’t the fault of the Cinematic Universe format, but rather Disney as a company just trying to make a bunch of money with a working formula.

It’s 100% possible to build a connected universe with a variety of tones and styles so long as it’s built off a film/framework that allows for it.

Formulaic films is the issue I have. I don’t like films that just play it safe and have no stakes.

A silly, goofy, and comedic “framework” is pretty restrictive in what it allows, don’t you think?

Okay. Then you don’t have an issue with cinematic universes. You just have an issue with the Disney/MCU formula?

Not really. A character like Spider-man (typically very light-hearted and comedic) has no issue fitting into a serious storyline/movie. Just because a movie has jokes doesn’t mean it’s a comedy. Halloween (2018) has jokes, but it’s definitely not a comedy. Same with movies like Winter Soldier, Doctor Strange, Hulk, Black Panther, etc. all have jokes but center around some very serious issues, characters, themes, stories, etc.

It’s okay if you don’t like the MCU. It has problems, but it’s problem doesn’t seem to be that it’s a cinematic universe. Do you dislike the older DC Animated Universe shows like Batman TAS, Superman, etc.?

I won’t lie about enjoying the Marvel movies, but I agree with this. What I’m finding over time is it really limits the movies’ rewatch value. It’s not very rewarding starting a movie knowing it’s just a middle chapter in a very long arc. Also, now that a good number of the characters are no longer part of the story going forward, I feel much less invested in watching any of the new stuff.

DCAOM… you mean the DC animated movies? I really like the format of a connected universe with stand alone stories. There’s individual stories involving any of the given characters, and team up stories… no overarching narrative that takes 20 movies to tell. Actors can change, looks can change, but the focus remains on the characters and their experiences, not the grand plot. You can keep telling and endless amount of stories that way, just like the comics.

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Full disclosure :pleading_face: I never watched Guardians 2 or Thor 3. I’ve also taken my parents to the see even less of Marvel’s movies than I’ve seen but there’s still enough enjoyment that Infinity War has to keep the audience entertained. So while formulaic they still succeed in keeping the general audience engaged I think.

Full disclosure x2 :pleading_face: I’ve seen probably less than half of Marvel movies at this point due do not caring about solo movies for characters besides the couple main core ones. Then again, they’ve also re-build up + increased my interest in characters through the movies but ESPECIALLY the Series for Wanda, Vision, Sam Wilson and Bucky.

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I would argue that the current DCEU does have cinematic universe albeit loosely defined. I personally prefer it that way as it allows them get directors with a defined style or tone. The films may not always be hits but they allow interesting interpretations that I may or may not agree with.

I’ve not seen Green Lantern so I can’t say if that would or would not be a good jumping off point. But just as they did with the BVS team jumped ship when it wasn’t received particularly well. I don’t necessarily think the jumping off point is the problem I think its the studio’s problem of knowing when to or not to intervene.

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Perfectly valid. I enjoy those shows and movies too. Not saying they’re bad or impossible to understand. Just saying (as if I had any say :slightly_smiling_face:) my preference would be for more independent stories that exist in a shared universe. Much as I love the Snyder movies for instance, I dislike the introduction of the Knightmare world 2 movies before it had any place of happening. Bruce didn’t need those visions to know that trouble is coming; Lex had already told him “the bell’s been rung”. That was enough to set up a sequel, without resorting to convoluted storytelling.

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I would start over with the upcoming batman movie, and then add on different heroes into each movie as it goes on. Like put the justice society in the wonder woman movie and put cyborg in the green lantern movie. Then once you have all the heroes introduced do a justice league movie. Add smaller characters in as side characters in the big movies like Man of Steel or Flash. All of this would take like maybe 15 years and tons of money to complete. It’s worth it though, right?

And where I disagree with you on this matter is that I see absolutely nothing in Man of Steel that limits future films from having a variety of styles and tones. (And I don’t even like Man of Steel!) You want a movie that focuses on heartfelt personal moments? MoS has that. You want a movie with inspirational superhero moments? Look no further than Clark’s first flight in MoS. You want jokes? Lois jokes about Superman’s “S” (and makes other quips, too).

By contrast, you mentioned the DCAU, and I think that’s actually a case where the tone and style of Batman: The Animated Series was essentially abandoned by the rest of the animated universe, and BTAS feels quite disconnected from its progeny as a result. It’s kinda hard to believe that the rest of the world is living in the late 1990s and early 2000s when Gotham City is still stuck in the 1940s. (Forget the zeppelins and the car designs. How about those black-and-white TVs everywhere?!)

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Maybe I need to rewatch MoS since it had been a couple years, but I don’t remember it being a versatile as you describe it as. But I’m willing to admit maybe I’m ignorant here.

That said, I’ve never had an issue with BTAS fitting in with the rest of the universe. Bruce carries over pretty seamlessly between his solo ventures and the other shows from a character perspective.

And while Gotham isn’t quite as modern as the rest of the other films, I think most of the cities in that world seem to be paused in a bit of a different era (Metropolis is very reminiscent of 50s/60s Urban styles for me rather than 90s). Which is fair cause not every city is the same or modern in real life either.

Those thoughts aside, i think we’re both in agreement that the films being in a connected universe isn’t limiting any characters/creators if done right. Which is my main point I’ve been trying to make.

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If I were feeling particularly uncharitable, I’d say that MoS is versatile in large part because it’s tonally inconsistent. :stuck_out_tongue:

This scene conveys that tone that I believe the whole film was meant to convey:

I make that assumption because it’s the tone that’s consistently carried through ZS’s JL. And I suspect that if MoS had hit this tone as consistently as its second sequel did, it would have been received better. (Then again, it’s a solo Superman movie, so maybe it was doomed from the start.)

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the problem that I had with Shazam is that teenage Billy and Shazam billy did not act like the same person. Teenage billy was moody, defensive and had a depressive tone to him (which wouldn’t be surprising considering his upbringing) but then Shazam Billy was the complete opposite of that. I feel like them acting similar would of made the movie a lot better

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