Somebody has to single handedly replace the Justice League.
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superman and batman are also from the golden age. The simple solution is to remove the golden age tie to world war 2 which is what was done for golden age superman and golden age batman. There is no need to portray golden age characters as super old.
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Yea, the OG Superman and Batman were. But those specific heroes have gone on to become larger than life with backstories that really are timeless and can show up in any era.
I would argue against severing the tie between the JSS and WW2 because that connection is an important piece to why that team is special. They are the ultimate example of the rich legacy DC has to offer both in universe and from a meta viewpoint
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DC still has a longer history compared to marvel even if dc gets rid of the golden age tie to world war 2. You still have a much longer history compared to marvel with golden age justice society → silver age justice league → current justice league. The advantage of getting rid of golden age tie to world war 2 is you preserve the important fact that it was superman who inspired jay garrick and alan scott, rather than the other way around. That superman started the golden age is pretty important and should not be erased in current continuity. Action Comcs 1 is probably of greater importance than even Showcase 4, Crisis On Infinite Earths, doomsday clock.
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Superman is my favorite character and I can see why it’s appealing to keep him as the first in-continuity superhero. However, not even I believe it’s worth sacrificing the JSA’s WWII ties for that. The fact that the JSA were so integral to the DCU’s version of WWII establishes how important they are to the history of the world and to each generation of heroes as spiritual guides.
So, I’ve heard you make this argument about keeping the Golden Age characters young a lot and we’ve debated it enough for me to understand that it’s important to you. However, I really, really disagree with going about it that way. I’m also so confident that very few JSA fans would actually want to go about it that way that I’m willing to make a poll about it:
- Get rid of the JSA’s WWII history
- Keep the JSA’s WWII history
0
voters
The Justice Society fought for democracy, so let’s let democracy decide.
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Big fan of Jay Garrick and Jeremy Adams. I will definitely buy that book! The other two I will take a pass on. Not a fan of Sheridan’s writing, and–in the spirit of this app and the community–I will simply say definitely not of Rossmo’s art.
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That is a problem that continues, they seem to be getting away with havine soe be time displaced, immortal, de-aged, etc. but you can only go to those wells so many times. The obvious answer would be to just leave out the WWII and just say they are 20 years behind the present… whenever that is. But well, they tried that and it didn’t work too well. Like you said, they are too tied to WWII take that away and they feel like different characters.
Hell, it has even caused them to have to age up the Infinity Inc. characters because it was a stretch they had teenage kids in the 80’s but is impossible now, so they had to age them up.
Not sure the answer but I also can’t blame the writers when they have decided to have some pass away or retire because they got too old. It’s incedentally why comics don’t age in real time. It would be fun for Batman to grow old with us, but in 20 or 30 years they would have the same problem with their flagship characters that they have now with the JSA.
Going onto the books though, I am excited about them. Always up for a new Alan Scott tale, and it’s good to see the characters from The Lost Children are going to be used after Stargirl ends. Although I assumed if nothing else Jay Garrick’s daughter would become a new member of the Flash Family. But it is a good sign that the others are not going to fade into obscurity.
Less excited for Sandman just because I was never a fan of the character, but he is arguably one of the more successful members so it makes sense, and he definitely has some good stories left in him.
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Seeing Adams and Venditti get these titles is incredibly exciting! And Alan Scott always deserves more love!
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I am very excited for these minis! But I also have trepidation over them as well. I love the Sandman very much. Sandman Mystery Theatre was the first adult comic I read in my teens back in the '90s.
I was seventeen when I first discovered it in some .50$ cent boxes at one of the comic book stores near where I lived. I loved it so much that I went back and dug through the back issue boxes for more issues but they didn’t have any. That’s when I learned that, outside of Neil Gaiman’s Sandman and Hellblazer, DC did not reprint a lot of the Vertigo comics. So when the stores ran out of issues, that was it.
Wesley Dodds has always reminded me of the Shadow and that’s one of the main reasons why I love his character so much. He’s a Mystery Man or a character straight out of a pulp novel. He belongs to that era - the 1940s. If you try to remove him from that era, then you wind up with a character who’s just like every other vigilante comic book character out there.
A really great writer should be able to tell stories that can be set in the '40s. All they have to do is research that time and that era. But these new minis look like they’re modernizing the JSA. And that’s fine for Alan Scott and Jay Garrick.
But Wesley Dodds would be a man out of time. And, yes, I did read Geoff Johns’ and James Robinson’s JSA run back in 1999 and in the first issue of that series Wesley Dodds died from old age and Sandy “Sand” Hawkins took over for him. Now that was a great way to pass the torch. But, by actually bringing back Wesley Dodds to the present, it would just undo everything Sandy has done and I don’t know why Geoff Johns wouldn’t see that, especially since he wrote the main JSA title back in the early-2000s which featured Sandy prominently in it.
As for Alan Scott’s return as Green Lantern, I look forward to reading his adventures again. I hope Jade and Obsidian are in it. I don’t know how they’re gonna interact with their father now since he’s being de-aged and all. It might be pretty funny to see because one minute Alan Scott is footloose and fancy free in the '40s and the next minute, he’s in the year 2023 and he’s a Dad to two super powered heroes and that might be funny to see his reaction.
But, also, that’s been done because Alan Scott was de-aged during Zero Hour so the writer would have to come at the story from a different angle. If this is like a time-displaced Alan Scott, then they could do Obsidian and Jade’s reactions to their father when he was in his twenties and that might be pretty funny too
. Also, the tease that Alan Scott’s mythology is going to be changed and that he may be the most powerful Lantern ever is also very intriguing to me as well. And, lastly, Jay Garrick 's mini sounds like it’ll be fun too.
He can be in any era. To me, Jay Garrick is timeless 
!
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I thought it was indicated that Wesley’s miniseries is going to be set in the past?
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I’m not too sure, @millernumber1. There’s two articles that I’ve read on Bleeding Cool since these minis have been announced and both articles lead me to believe that all these minis are set in the present. They’re under the banner “The New Golden Age” and they’re being showrunned by Geoff Johns. The first article mentioned how in the description for the Sandman mini that it’s implied that Wesley Dodds is going to be a pacifist now.
I just don’t see Wesley Dodds being a pacifist in WW2 so that’s one reason why I’m drawing the conclusion that he’s coming to the present day. The second article came on Bleeding Cool today and it’s a major spoiler for the latest issue of Stargirl: The Lost Children . I won’t reveal what was spoiled of course. They’re trying to modernize and update these characters so it doesn’t make sense to modernize Wesley Dodds and leave him in the '40s while the rest of his teammates are in the present.
The comic may start off in the '40s but, eventually, sometime over the course of the story, Wesley Dodds will wind up in the present. Also, another reason why Wesley Dodds will be coming to the present is because of the big crossover taking place this summer - Knight Terrors. Joshua Williamson stated in an interview on CBR that Wesley Dodds plays a big part in the Knight Terrors crossover and that the new threat that the DCU is facing in Insomnia is actually connected to Wesley Dodds past. So all of this leads me to believe, whole heartedly, that the Wesley Dodds Sandman is coming into our present and that’s where my comments come from.
Because Sandy has made his own legacy as the Sandman for a newer generation, my generation, and by bringing back Wesley Dodds, it kinda feels like to me, that they’re taking away Sandy’s legacy. I know that they’re not. DC’s just doing what they did with Barry Allen and Wally West in Flash: Rebirth. They can’t have two Sandman’s running around fighting crime, can they?
And that’s why I said that Sandy is going to get short changed because Wesley Dodds is back now. He can’t go back to being the sidekick to Wesley because he’s too old now. That’s another reason why I said what I said. And, yes, Wesley Dodds will be a man out of time because he belongs to the 1940s.
His ways of fighting crime are archaic and belong to another era and when you attempt to change something from the past to fit today’s values, it doesn’t work. Go read Sandman Mystery Theatre. That was a mature readers comic because it really felt like it was from a different era. This mini that was just announced for Sandman does not have a mature readers label on it.
So it won’t be able to make it feel like it’s actually from that era. There was bigotry, social inequality, fascism, racism, etc etc. All of those issues were covered by Matt Wagner in Sandman Mystery Theatre. Wesley Dodds tackled the inequalities of the world back then because there was no JSA yet.
Sandman existed before them. He was one of the very first heroes in the DCU. When the JSA came along, Wesley Dodds was already almost 50 years old and ready to retire from being Sandman. Until the JSA disappeared and he along with them, of course.
But that’s a story for another time. In today’s comic world, half of the stuff in Sandman Mystery Theatre would’ve been edited out of it and that’s probably why the whole series has never been reprinted. I mean DC’s supposedly releasing two full Omnibus’ of Sandman Mystery Theatre to collect the whole series now but we’ll see if that happens. Something always happens to derail the second half of the series from being printed.
The first half has been reprinted numerous times. But never the second half and I don’t know why. Anyways, that article on Bleeding Cool proves that Wesley Dodds is going to be changed (because he’s not a pacifist) and the only way this change could happen is if he were to come to the present and interact with some of the DCU’s greatest heroes. You can’t be a vigilante and be a pacifist, that just doesn’t work. Then that would mean that Batman is a pacifist also since he’s a vigilante as well. Now Sandman’s probably gonna come to the present, interact with some people, and take back to the past what he learned in the present.
But then won’t that alter history? So, basically, once Wesley Dodds comes to the present, in order to go home again to his wife, the love of his life, Dian Belmont, they would have to wipe his memory before he leaves. And it’s the same thing with all of the JSA members if they’re all coming to the present as Bleeding Cool has implied. They could also have the Spectre send them back to their times with their memories of the present erased by him, of course.
If they even go home, that is. The article announcing the minis on Bleeding Cool does say that Alan Scott’s and Jay Garrick’s stories will have them tackling an adventure from their earliest days and will see it finished in the present. The Sandman must be the same way. It starts off in the past and ends in the present, I’m assuming.
We’ll see, right 
? But, if the end goal here is to modernize these characters, then they’re not gonna leave them in the past. I hope I’m wrong because I would love to see the Sandman comic set back in the '30s and '40s but I don’t think I am. Why would they need to modernize these characters if all they were going to do is leave them back in the '40s, @millernumber1?
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The alan scott mini seems to be mostly in the golden age and will have the golden age red lantern. Red Lantern and his daughter will probably be used in current justice society stories. The sandman mini seems mostly in the golden age too. The jay garrick mini seems mostly in the present with Judy Garrick. Elements introduced in the 3 minis will end up being used in the current justice society stories.
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That could mean it takes place in 1946.
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Yes, the key word here is “mostly”. Part of their stories do still take place in the present, though, and I’m assuming the same thing will happen with the Sandman mini. I also agree with you that the story threads will most likely be followed up on in the new Justice Society series. But these stories also fall under "The New Golden Age " banner of stories from Geoff Johns and underneath that banner they’re supposed to be modernizing these characters.
That’s why it’s called “The New Golden Age”. This right now, 2023, is considered the “New Golden Age” by DC. It’s brought on by what happens in the last issue of Stargirl: The Lost Children. That series finds the lost sidekicks of the JSA returning as you well know and there’s a tease at the end for a “Young Justice Society” that’s going to be appearing soon.
That’s how we get to “The New Golden Age” that’s coming this fall. They’re changing Alan Scott’s whole mythology and making him, according to the solicitation, quite possibly the most powerful character in the DCU. Not just a Lantern anymore. They wouldn’t be doing such a massive status quo change if Alan Scott was going right back to the past.
Trust me, these characters are here for the foreseeable future. Well, that is until we get a Crisis event in 2025 to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Crisis On Infinite Earths and then everything reboots itself again 
!
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He was already that.
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Nope, it can’t be '46, @MatthewHect, because the adventure that takes place in the story is supposed to be somewhere near the beginning of his career. That’s another way that they’re going to modernize the characters - by having them be the younger versions of themselves. When Wesley Dodds joined the JSA, he was almost 50 years old. He served in WW1.
So he’s no spring chicken by the time the JSA arrives. Also, I’m going to refer you to go check out Stargirl: The Lost Children #6. In it, there’s a reference to the Young Justice Society. So we’ll just have to see how things play out in October. Because it’s even mentioned in two of the solicits about Jay Garrick and Alan Scott stories finishing up in the present and I think the same thing will be done with the Sandman mini as well .
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Relatively speaking 46 is early in his career.
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I’m gonna dispute you on that, @MatthewHect. Kyle Rayner was actually supposed to be the most powerful character in the DCU ever at one time when he was Ion. And let’s not forget that Hal Jordan as Parallax had the ability to wipe the JSA out of existence with a wave of his hand and rewrite history with a snap of his fingers. Hal Jordan had God-level power twice and, at two times in his career, he was considered the most powerful character in the DCU ever.
The first time was when he was Parallax. And the second time was when he was the Spectre. So I think Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner have Alan Scott beat-for now that is .That’s why I’m intrigued to see what this status quo change they’re going to introduce to Alan Scott is and I wonder if it’s universe shaking like it was when Kyle Rayner became Ion or Hal Jordan became Parallax or the Spectre.
I think they’re gonna get Alan Scott away from the Green Lantern mythology altogether. I think he’s gonna be getting a new persona, especially if he’s coming to the present day with the other JSAers’.
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No, that’s his twilight years, dude. He was about 50 years old by then. The JSA disappeared in like 1953 and he was in his early-50s by then. So “young in his career” would have Wesley Dodds in his twenties or early-30s.
He served in WW1 so “young in his career” probably means that we would see Wesley Dodds as the Sandman in the 1920s or 1930s instead of in the late-'30s and early-'40s like in Sandman Mystery Theatre.That’s long before 1946. Just go read Sandman Mystery Theatre on DCUI Ultra. He was complaining about body aches and how he was getting old all the time in it and that comic was set in the late-'30s to early-'40s and, at that time, Wesley Dodds was in his 40s in that comic.
So we’re looking at probably seeing a Wesley Dodds who’s dealing with gangsters and prohibition at the end of the 1920s and outlaws like Bonnie and Clyde during the Depression which started in 1929. But, once again, as I stated before, Wesley Dodds is going to be coming to the present. How that happens, I don’t know. But, if you go read Stargirl: The Lost Children #6, you’ll understand what I mean when I say “young”.
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I think that was 10 years into his career by then and that’s only going by what Matt Wagner wrote in Sandman Mystery Theatre. Because now DC’s retconning it. But still that’s not relatively that fresh into his career. 10 years is a long time especially considering all the bones he broke over the years.
Wesley Dodds was not like Bruce Wayne. He could get hurt and there was lasting ramifications from it. Whereas Bruce Wayne has his back broken and he has no aches or pains at all. It’s like it never really happened.
Wesley Dodds aged in real time (probably because he was in a Vertigo comic and not a DC comic so he wasn’t subject to DC’s sliding time scale.). Now he’ll be subject to DC’s time scale in this new comic and that’s gonna be one of the things that I don’t like about it. Because I always loved the sense of realism that was imbued in the Sandman Mystery Threatre comics. I have never found anything like Sandman Mystery Theatre inside of the regular DC Universe and that grit, that toughness, is what makes Wesley Dodds special and different from every other hero.
There were no other heroes around when he was the Sandman. He dressed up in a trenchcoat, a fedora, a gas mask, and his weapon of choice were his sleep guns. He struck fear into criminals and he gave hope to people that had none because they lost everything during the Depression. But, now, all of that’s gonna change.
I’m reserving my judgement until I read the comic. But I know a lot of what I liked about Sandman Mystery Theatre will not make it into this new Sandman comic simply because there is no mature readers label on it.
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