Meta Madhouse - Shazam's Sorcerers - FINAL ROUND

@deku_ Having followed the NCAA madness for decades, it just is universal. Upsets happen. Upsets are what makes brackets great.

Look at this year, you have a 1, 2, 3, and 5 seeds in the Final Four. Only once since expanding to 64 teams, have all four #1 seeds made the final four, and three #1 seeds has only happened 5 times.

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Maybe next year DCU can partner with CBS (CBS & WarnerMedia are both under the Viacom umbrella, I think) Use cbssports.com infrastructure to build a real bracket system. Do full brackets in advance, points system to determine the user rankings, ability to do multiple bracket sheets. Get a DC tie in to the NCAA broadcasts. People can still vote for free, but, if you want in on the full blown bracket system, it’s $1 a bracket and donate all proceeds to children’s literacy.

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@deku_, Green Arrow vs Superman would be an easy fight if somebody smuggled in some kryptonite…

There’s more to these meta battles than “who has the most power” when you factor in strategy, exploitable weaknesses, character integrity… We assume they aren’t trying to kill each other, so an unlikely character could claim the upper hand easily. Just use your :rainbow: imagination :rainbow:

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I’m voting Doctor Fate and it kills me because he’s SO BORING. Why couldn’t Nabu have given the helmet to a chipmunk, or a hedgehog? Uuuuuugh

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I have to vote Dr. Fate on this one cause he is a Lord of Order and one of the if not the most powerful being in the universe.

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Nabu is basically a hat. He doesn’t have any power unless he’s being worn by someone to be able to possess them. He is, in essence, a disembodied consciousness. Raven can project her consciousness into the headspace of others and take control of that.

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“Nabu is basically a hat.” - iJest

I wish there were Dr. Fate fans because they would be so :fire:ed

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No way spectre lost.

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Gonna have to go with Dr. Fate here

Do people not realize that the Spectre once killed everyone on earth (except for 8 people)?

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Sadly it’s a popularity contest, even as Dr. Fate fan, no way he beats Spectre. I still enjoy this event though, hope we get more in the future.

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I still can’t believe Swamp Thing and Spectre lost. With who is left, I have to vote Dr. Fate.

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How in the world did the Specter not win…?

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No shirt, no pants, no victory

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@biff_pow the helmet needs to go to Ch’p

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@IJest one flaw in your argument for Raven. She gets this control over people by using the astral plane. Nabu on the astral plane will smoke Raven.

Raven’s best strategy is balance of order and chaos. That the only order in brackets is chaos, therefore Fate needs to concede so order in the guise of chaos can be exerted.

Dr Fate has an existential crisis, looks and Raven and says. “Damn, I didn’t think of that. I concede and I’m gonna go get drunk now.”

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@DeSade-acolyte: (Specifically, your response to me before) I generally try to pick the New Earth versions of characters (since there’s a longer history and track record to go on than New 52 (and also because New 52 sucks, so if I’m biased it’s in that respect)) at their “normal” capabilities. Raven has certainly been more powerful than empath-and-low-level-telekinetic, but usually only when possessed or in alternate continuities. Fate is almost always Earth’s most powerful sorcerer. Between the two, Raven’s the better character, but I just can’t justify her winning.

This contest is yet another reason why democracy isn’t a great idea. How did some of these characters ever get advanced? Perhaps I am way behind on the times, but when did Raven get to be all powerful? Did she get boosted somehow? The entire Teen Titans had a hard time against Trigon, and she’s voted to defeat him one on one? I doubt she could even defeat Alan Scott. Trigon is pretty powerful, but I doubt he could defeat Hoppy. If Hoppy has all the powers of Captain Marvel, then Hoppy could drag Trigon out of his dimension and drop him in the Phantom Zone via the Rock of Eternity. If Trigon can’t breach into Earth’s dimension from his home ground, there is no way he’s escaping the Phantom Zone into Earth’s realm. Hoppy doesn’t really have any weaknesses, and he’s resistant to magic. Is Trigon going to be able to muster enough power to overcome the power of Zeus and the strength of Hercules and the speed of Mercury? No. And how would John Constantine defeat Black Adam? Only if Black Adam had no interest in the contest whatsoever. Again, Black Adam doesn’t really have any weaknesses either. Constantine isn’t going to outsmart him, as Black Adam has some counterpart to the wisdom of Solomon, but at the moment I don’t remember the God he derives that wisdom from. Dr. Fate and Spectre I think would be the ones coming from the other side of the matches. Etrigan is pretty tough, but he isn’t going to beat the Spectre. I really haven’t read enough Swamp Thing to really be clear on his powers. I’ve never seen him involved in the universe saving to the extent that Dr Fate has been involved, so I doubt he’s powerful enough to beat Dr. Fate. The Spectre is out of Dr Fate’s league. That’s been depicted in countless stories (though I could’ve missed some modern ones…). I think the left side contest/bracket would’ve had Hoppy versus Alan Scott, with Hoppy winning, then Black Adam versus Hoppy, with Black Adam winning. Then the final match would’ve been Spectre versus Black Adam with Spectre winning. Raven, John Constantine, Zatanna, and even Alan Scott are all human with typical mortal weaknesses and vulnerabilities. One solid hit and their ability to continue the fight would be drastically diminished. And when combatting against folks with the speed of Mercury or its equivalent, they’ll get hit. Green Lantern’s will power has never been sufficient to stop Superman level strength, and that’s where I’d put Hoppy’s and Black Adam’s strength levels. I like Blue Devil a lot, but I’m not sure what he could do against Zatanna, since she can strike from such a distance. Yeah, I’d’ve thought this contest would progress much differently than it has, but this must be a popularity contest or something, and not actual battles between these characters. I have a hard time enjoying popularity contests.

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Everyone who is supporting Dr. Fate show your love for him.

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This made zero sense. I’m not even voting. No way this would have been the final 2. Spectre was so overpowered against everyone else it wasn’t even a contest. I’m assuming the people voting just aren’t familiar with the characters.

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