Let's Show That We Don't Want Any CW Like Originals On Here

…and tokenism isnt experimentation, its social media buzz. Having a trans character is more experimental than a sentient street!? Uh…ok

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There’s room for variety and different kinds of shows.

I love the CW shows personally. Yeah Arrow took the Olicity stuff too far at times but I do think the “everything on CW is melodrama” talking point is a bit overstated. I don’t even mind filler episodes cause sometimes it’s just fun to watch Barry take down a villain of the week.

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I honestly haven’t followed the DC universe rumors. I do follow Att. Here are the main things that tell me this service might be hosed. They’re billions in debt, about 185, and are looking to cut costs, meaning no gambling on great original content that might not pay off, Swamp Thing. CEO of HBO left over arguments with Att’s head of entertainment over them wanting quantity over quality. They’re launching the Warner streaming app. It’s more expensive monthly so why give customers a cheaper option. This is currently ATT’s strategy. High prices for maximum ARPU. They also seem to have no focus on the DC side. It’s Harry Potter and GoT. They don’t understand the comic fans and aren’t as smart as Disney, they seem to wisely be letting Feige alone.
Not trolling, just looking at the writing on the wall.

THR has a story today, which I got two main points from. First, the timing of the cancellation announcement was because it had leaked, because WB decided not to pay millions to keep the sets up. So, news came out of Wilmington that they were striking them. Second, they referred to the video library as a “value add” to the comics, meaning that someone, I’m not sure who, views the service as a comics app with the shows a bonus.

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Hey OP here. So some clarifications on what I mean. I don’t hate the CW shows at all I think they’re just fine. But for me I think we this app is a real opportunity to get new, creative shows on here. Look at Doom Patrol we would most likely never get anything that crazy or nuts on even a premium channel like HBO. I’m not saying o just do a mass cancel of our subscriptions either. I just wanted to make a thread to show them that we want more shows like Doom Patrol and Swamp Thing.

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Definitely, I can’t stand the CW shows: they’re too cheesy

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You all do understand that a company called Berlanti Productions, through an exclusive contract with Warner Bros/Warner Media, makes ARROW, THE FLASH, SUPERGIRL, LEGENDS OF TOMORROW, BLACK LIGHTNING```
AND DOOM PATROL, TITANS, & STARGIRL?

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@Zomebody
Yes, they realize 1/3rd of their CW revenue comes from streaming, given their demographic, that is not surprising. They are still making revenue (be it broadcast or streaming, dollars are dollars)

And how many HBO shows have fallen flat? Or not been renewed? Yes, they will have the occasional GOT or Rome (which despite positive critical response and large viewership, they only did two seasons because it was so expensive to produce)

Supergirl was always going to get rolled into CW, they tried the experiment of putting the first season on CBS, (might strike lucky, but it didn’t.) so put it on CW where it makes sense.

If “tokenism” isn’t a big deal, look up Jodie Dallas from Soap. It was a conscious choice and Dreamer made sense in the overall arc of the season. She wasn’t just an add on, throw away character. She isn’t part of canon, although future relatives are. Is Batwoman “tokenism”? Danny is part of DP canon. If either character was a “token” it was Danny. They made sure to add him into the story, but not as large part of the arc of the season as Dreamer was for Supergirl. Supergirl took its subject matter of social division quite seriously. And it did it without list of “adult” language and graphic violence.

If your definition of “serious media” is predicated on “adult” language and graphic violence. Great. There are some pieces of media that use those to great effect. However, there have also been plenty that didn’t. The Twilight Zone, The Prisoner & Soap immediately pop to mind.

There is space and market for both DCU Originals and CWVERSE. Is one better than the other, that is a personal opinion.

Is Endgame a better movie than All That Jazz?

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Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing, Young Justice and Titans are all niche shows that have a passionate but narrower band of viewers. Nothing wrong with that. DCU is a place for allowing those more niche characters a place for exploration. I’m glad it exists. But just like YJ, not all content needs to be TV-MA. I hope Stargirl is “brighter and happier” than Titans, Doom Patrol & Swamp Thing. Comics come in many facets. If DCU is going to represent the fan base, it needs some diversity of styles as well.

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I’ve been saying for ages, if Stargirl is TV-MA then something is dreadfully wrong. That character is ready for a “straight” adaptation that works, she wasn’t designed for the treatment the other DCU shows have gotten. That’s actually why I think that show is safe, because from a storytelling perspective it’s probably going to be “safe.”

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^^Soap is one of my favorite shows of all time, it’s also over 40 years old. 4 entire decades of social growth. At the time it may have been revolutionary but it’s been done. It wasnt even a noteworthy when Sons of Anarchy did it, a show with a much larger fanbase and viewership. It’s old news, my man.
Twilight Zone and Star Trek were very mature for their time, a time when saying “damn” was controversial, as controversial as featuring a flushing toilet in a Hollywood production (hugely controversial) The audience was very different in the 60s. I dont know the numbers, but it seems Black Mirror is being watched more than the Twilight Zone reboot here in 2019.

As for HBO they honestly dont have alot of shows that “fall flat”. They definitely have a few, but they absolutely have more hits than misses . When HBO has a hit it is typically regarded as “some of the finest television ever produced”.

Sopranos, Deadwood, Big Little Lies, True Blood, Band of Brothers, Westworld, Boardwalk Empire, Entourage, Oz, the Wire, Arliss…the list literally goes on and on, full of shows that are considered to be the greatest shows of all time. That’s just off the top of my head.

Overall, it’s not that foul language makes something mature, it’s that it makes the world of the show more believable because in reality lots of people swear, especially privately. The CW experiment seems to be their annual crossover event, beyond that it’s just a teen soap opera no different than Buffy, Smallville, Charmed, Angel, Sweet Valley High, One tree hill, the OC, Beverly Hills 90210, Dawson’s Creek, ect. It’s great that people love those shows, but acting like they are smash hits or implying in anyway that they are pushing the envelope is a huge stretch.

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Danny the Street is tokenization!? I get you like to argue but how am I supposed to take that seriously?! Is there a marginalized community of sentient, transgender streets out there demanding visibility? Is Danny’s behavior a stereotypical portrayal of sentient streets? To the po in my of being insulting to it’s real world counter part?

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@Zomebody
Were you around when Soap first aired.
Yes, society has evolved in that context, but look at how long it took for Jodie Dallas to appear and same-gender marriage to happen in the real world. Should we even mention that the federal DOMA statute was in the books for 17 years, put there to block Hawaii’s going forward with same gender marriage statute. To think we have “evolved” that fast. 19 years between Jodie Dallas in Soap to Hawaii’s proposed legislation, and another 17 on top of that. 36 years.

No way Dreamer or Batwoman is as ground breaking as Jodie. But, 41 years to get a Trans superhero on tv. That’s a slow “evolution” IMO.

Remember any of these HBO shows:
Mind of a married man
The Brink
Vinyl
Maximum Security
Lucky Louie
Family Tree
Sally4Ever
How to make it in America
Hello Ladies
The High Life

They only lasted one season & that is far from a definitive list.

CW is geared towards a certain demographic. Most stuff is.

Guessing you’ve never watched the Prisoner and every reboot of Twilight Zone has fallen well short of the original.

Star Trek became a cult and took a long time to get a generation to get to its Next Generation. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Rocky Horror, and Dark Shadows have cult followings. The last being the foundation stone for the reluctant, vampire lead. Hello Twilight, True Blood, & Angel, Dan Curtis is calling.

A million eyeballs still outranks 100k eyeballs. That doesn’t mean one is “better” than the other. Different demographics. I know people who are very caught up in one or more CWVERSE DC shows, but have no interest in any of the DCU Originals. Whatcha know there is diversity in viewing populations too. Who’d a thunk it.

DVU Originals & CWVERSE have their place.

Im not saying either CWVERSE or DCU Originals are groundbreaking. But who took the bigger sociopolitical risk this year Titans, Doom Patrol, Titans, or Supergirl? There’s a string argument for the last in that list. The 19/20 season, who knows. I seriously doubt it’ll be Supergirl.

And of course what we always need in comics is realism, because it’s so realistic that someone can fly without a means of propulsion. And we know that human brains just fit into otherwise totally mechanical robots, no problem and sentient Swamp creature are just so plentiful in real life that they are building condos in “the green” just to keep up with demand.

Comic book TV, just like comic books, comes in all shapes and forms.

Vive le diversity!

Bro, we agree on so much it’s always minutia and personal opinion that divide us.
First off, can you agree that government legislation rarely represents the views of the masses? All those rich ivy league elitists that punch up legislation have their fingers far from the pulse and not enough of the younger generations vote. If everyone of age voted I have serious doubts it would have taken as long as it has. Really, when you compare LGBT acceptance in America to say civil rights for racial minorities or women, or LGBTQ acceptance compared to the rest of the world abroad, we are moving at light speed. Especially when you remember how Christian this nation has been, the bible is pretty clear on the subject. Accepting homosexuality was literally against their religion. To be clear, I’m not religious.
No, I wasnt alive when Soap premiered, I caught it in syndication. It was already history when I was born.
The first lesbian superhero television lead? I dont see that as a big deal, not at all. First lesbian lead character might have been noteworthy but that already happened in the 90s and several times since. I’m just talking lead roles here. Will and Grace was one of the most watched and highest rated shows. I’m really struggling trying to think of a less safe choice for a lead character than “gorgeous lesbian”.
All I was saying originally was that as long as this app has a strong subscriber base then shows will probably continue to increase in quality, not unlike HBO has done over the years.
Supergirl has low ratings compared to its peers, other network television shows. I dont get why you’re comparing it to Doom Patrol. My point about Supergirl being more accessible had nothing to do with being “approachable” it’s just simple math. CW is 100% free to watch and in every home that has a television set. It will always have more viewers due to its platform.
All those failed HBO shows are a million times more experimental than anything on national networks. Hell, wasnt “Queer as Folk” a smash hit on HBO over 2 decades ago?
In the end, we both agree that variety is the way to go.

@Zomebody
I think the genetic point I was making got a bit lost. Supergirl was tanking ratings wise last season. The show pulled itself up this year by about 35%.

We will never know for sure, but they bet the farm on playing to a subject that is in the consciousness of their prime demographic and putting a Trans hero as a substantive additional character. It payed off. They upped their ratings.

They got back to the fundamentals of the show, which is putting Supergirl and her “band of heroes” as beacons of hope to their target demographic. Flash is the “we’re a happy family” show. Arrow now replaced by Batwoman is their brooding show. LoT is just plain fun piling together misfits and using their differences to be more than the sum of their parts.
Sure they’re formulaic, but so was Buffy, Deadwood, True Blood, and most shows.

I think “hardcore” comics fans understand the arcs or have familiarity with them already. Supergirl’s grabbing Red Son storyline, for example. I knew what was going to happen with that, but my “non-comics” friends found it much more intriguing.

I’m glad Supergirl pulled their ratings up or I’d wager they wouldn’t be around next season.

A lot of folks wonder about cohesiveness with the DCEU. Cohesion is possible for DC, and the truth is CWVERSE, for all its predictability, shows it can be done.

For all of the comic loving downsides of CWVerse, and it has plenty, it shows what the MCU did, take your 2nd level title characters and use them to create your universe. That isn’t a fluke. Trying to build a foundation on your most iconic characters is hazardous. Everyone has an opinion of what Superman & Batman are “supposed” to be. And the episode with Snyder proved that those opinions are varied. Fewer preconceived ideas & baggage with Aquaman, WW, Shazam & Birds of Prey.

MCU was forced in to it, since X-men & FF and for quite a while Spider-Man were off the table.
DCEU doesn’t have that issue, but the format works. I think they are finally figuring this out. They can start to build a cohesive universe using Wonder Woman and Aquaman as their base, like MCU did with Iron man and Thor.

I think the other point is that there are subscribers to be had with non-TVMA content. I know there has been talk about eventually/possibly putting “parental controls” option on DCU. That can bring in some of the “gun shy” folks concerned with the TVMA content on the site. YJ is a good example of being able to do serious ideas without having to be TVMA.

And off topic, I think you’ll see a bigger young voter turnout in 2020. On any number of fronts, I think you have a generation or two now that realize the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

I guess I should also clarify that I don’t want all the shows to be TV-MA. I’m just not about having what are more or less proceedurals on this platform.

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Okay, off from the social aspect of this debate. Just caught up with the Flash season finale. These shows don’t compare to the best streaming offers, but they are still by and large entertaining superhero fare that is leagues beyond the classic superhero shows we extoll in terms of visuals, acting and story telling. As Desade mentions there’s a market for these shows both in terms of demographics but also melodrama and less violent sexual content. And as a life long conservative, for those who object to the messages some of these shows decide to employ, stop getting in your own way of enjoying them. I volunteered for Reagan in high school and listened to punk, I don’t Need to agree with someone to enjoy there work. Don’t let others ideas drive you away. Anyway, if you don’t agree with my take, I’m cool with that too.

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what I see in the CW shows are stuff without a good storyline, oh they start with a good story but falls off before the first season. CW seems to cater to the young “twilight” audience whereas DCU, with swamp thing, has stuff with grit, good storylines and actors and actresses. DCU has way better content than the mainstream networks do. Imagine Krypton on the CW or NBC, CBS, ABC? Yea…it would become trash and flash…no pun intended for flash but hey…all I have to do is go back in time and fix the problem. that has become the show Flash which is done by CW. Lack of imagination from the people in mainstream networks.

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@msgtv
I feel like I’m reading a mirror. Lol.

That is the great thing about comics in any medium, they have the ability to reach so many people in so many ways.

Superman is a classic example, I remember reading action & Superman back in the mid 70s.

Some folks loved it because it was still that Truth, Justice, The American way, Apple pie, etc.

I loved it for the same reason because I could pick apart the psyche of the only character I believe may be more psychologically damaged than Batman (which is saying something).

It was conservative and subversive at the same time, because it was iconic. Superman was how the reader approached it. That is IMO great storytelling.

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:raised_hands::clap::raised_hands::raised_hands: I second the OP. I love the more mature shows. Titans is my favorite but Doom Patrol was a lot of fun and Swamp Thing has been amazing so far.

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