[JSA Book Club] Week 12: All Good Things Must Come To An End [7/1/20-7/15/20]

[Aurora]

Hello everyone!

My sincerest apologies for my internet problems that delayed last month’s post. Much thanks to @JasonTodd428 for filling in. This week we will be reading the conclusion of Infinity Inc. It’s been said that all good things must come to an end. Many of the members of the team went on bigger and better things, but [spoilers] sadly one did not. Without further delay, let’s get started!

CLUB LEADERS:

@Aurora
@JasonTodd428

STANDING MEMBERS:

AggressiveIntellectual219, bigblock66, Brenticus_Rex, CassTheStreet, CrazyQuilt, Daffern, Dave_Worrell, december360, dj.ganon, Don-El, frankie.lacy79, Frostbite30, ganaoque, harrist, HombreDeMaiz, hotstufflouieb, jacksonjakebova, Jay_Kay, Jflow, jlevin, Justicesocietyfan, lunalane, mbpbinder, _meegs, Meisaj, mgeiler, Midnitehour, MisfitCMJ ,msgtv, PaintEater, ProActress2O, ralphsix, Ravenrifft, Reaganfan78, Remember5NovEveyHammond, rlynchfamily, rspezzano, rwm, TheCosmicMoth, TK52, TurokSonOfStone, waddup, ZacharyLee1995

This Week’s Issues:

Issues #45-50
Annual #2
Issues #51-53

Discussion Questions:

1: Do you think the Infinitors should have been a bit more suspicious about Marcie, or at least questioned her motives? Do you think they just assumed she was just a superhero groupie? (I’m sure they exist somewhere in that reality)

2: The team is now faced with a new Harlequin, and a team of villains, that unfortunately for them, now know entirely too much. How would you change your tactics, considering the circumstances?

3: We get a look into Albert’s past in issue #48, and we find out there was a time when he was small for his age, and bullied because of it. How do you think his “Uncle Al” and the rest of the JSA taking him under their wing changed things for him?

4: We’ve known for most of the series that Albert’s crush on Fury goes clear back to when they were just kids. With Hector no longer in the picture, Albert does his awkward best to pop the question, and of course, gets shot down. Do you feel bad for him, or do you think it’s for the best?

5: So Hector returns, just in another form. Do you think Fury took it well? Would you have been as quick to forgive him, even after that story, or would you have still been angry, or at least skeptical?

6: We get a look into Yolanda’s private life. What do you think of the differences between the Wildcat that we see here, and the one in the new Stargirl series?

7: And we see the sad end of Sylvester Pemberton. What do you think of how it happened in this series versus the opening sequence shown in Stargirl? Which do you think was a more fitting end?

8: We watch as the team tries to pull themselves together to get justice in the wake of Skyman’s murder. What did you like about the way they went about doing so, and what would you have done differently?

Feel free to ask questions of your own! My time at the keys has come to an end for now, but please feel free to make this discussion your own and add to the conversation.

If you would like to join click the following link JSA BOOK CLUB

[Don-El]

Bookmarked to read either this Saturday or next, thanks for posting @Aurora

[JasonTodd428]

You’re very welcome @Aurora. Glad to be of help and welcome back!

Sad to see this come to an end. I really have been enjoying reading this one but as you say all good things must come to an end although there are plenty of other good things to come in the club.

I haven’t had a chance to read the rest just yet so I’ll be back later on to discuss the conclusion of this book.

[dave_worrell]

1: Do you think the Infinitors should have been a bit more suspicious about Marcie, or at least questioned her motives? Do you think they just assumed she was just a superhero groupie? (I’m sure they exist somewhere in that reality)

I don’t think they should have been more suspicious. I didn’t read the issues prior to these, where she was first introduced up to these, but it seemed like her story was organic to the book. She had a connection to the heroes and drew closer to Todd. Looking at other titles in the era, I think her story matches up with others. If I remember correctly, writers were encouraged to make one of their established characters a Manhunter for this event. Some were created to be sleeper agents but some were really benign characters who were retroactively turned into sleeper agents for the crossover. With Marcie, it’s hard for me to tell which she was. My gut says she was going to turn out to be a villain with the Injustice guys and the Thomases just looped her heel turn into the Manhunter storyline, but she may have been created specifically for that event. Either way, I think she fit in well as the typical side character who could have turned into a love interest for Todd and I don’t think anything internal to the story should have made the team suspicious.

2: The team is now faced with a new Harlequin, and a team of villains, that unfortunately for them, now know entirely too much. How would you change your tactics, considering the circumstances?

I think you have to sail into the knowledge. You know what she knows, so you have to mix things up, play on what she would expect. Lay traps based on what she would know and the likely areas of attack. You also know her powers, so you should be alert for odd visions or things that seem off kilter. The big problem there was that they thought she was in prison, so she was able to formulate and enact a plan before anyone even knew she was out.

3: We get a look into Albert’s past in issue #48, and we find out there was a time when he was small for his age, and bullied because of it. How do you think his “Uncle Al” and the rest of the JSA taking him under their wing changed things for him?

I think it was the father figure more than the size. I think if Albert had never had the growth spurt and developed powers then he would have still become a hero under Atom’s tutelage, but he would have been more akin to the original Atom’s brand of simply being a well-trained athlete and fighter. I think the guidance from the team was what he needed and provided the self-esteem and motivation that changed his outlook.

4: We’ve known for most of the series that Albert’s crush on Fury goes clear back to when they were just kids. With Hector no longer in the picture, Albert does his awkward best to pop the question, and of course, gets shot down. Do you feel bad for him, or do you think it’s for the best?

Both. I feel bad for him, but it was still fairly soon after Hector’s apparent death and Fury was pregnant with her presumed dead husband’s child. Plus he’d been dating Wildcat a little in the interim. I think they handled it well where she rejected his proposal without rejecting him.

5: So Hector returns, just in another form. Do you think Fury took it well? Would you have been as quick to forgive him, even after that story, or would you have still been angry, or at least skeptical?

She’s in love and he didn’t do it to her on purpose. His big mistake was not revealing he was alive, but there were at least understandable reasons. Plus she knew the comic was ending in five issues and she didn’t have time for an “I’m mad at you” arc. I think in a similar circumstance I would forgive the woman I love because I’d be so happy she was actually alive and we could be together(ish) again.

6: We get a look into Yolanda’s private life. What do you think of the differences between the Wildcat that we see here, and the one in the new Stargirl series?

The age difference is the drastic change. Same with Dr. Midnight and to some extent Hourman. She’s a professional with much more confidence and independence. She’s got some of the same issues with being a little headstrong and stubborn, but they’re coming from different times in their lives and the comic book version is acting more mature because she’s literally more mature and has had more life experiences. She does seem to have a more supportive family in the comics.

7: And we see the sad end of Sylvester Pemberton. What do you think of how it happened in this series versus the opening sequence shown in Stargirl? Which do you think was a more fitting end?

This was more satisfying to me in that we knew the character more. It was more organic to the story and more meaningful. There was more depth to the death and a greater sense of loss. In the tv show he was one of several JSAers who died that night and it bugged me that they basically got slaughtered. Stripesy says they died saving the world, but I don’t think we ever heard exactly how they thwarted the Injustice Gang’s plans and how the world was saved that night even though the heroes were dead. The different reasons for the death and different points in the story leave me feeling like the comic book had more weight.

8: We watch as the team tries to pull themselves together to get justice in the wake of Skyman’s murder. What did you like about the way they went about doing so, and what would you have done differently?

I like that they had human reactions to the death and the next steps without going overboard and letting their emotions get the better of them. Even Todd realized he was acting on emotions and that he should put the good of the team over it. It was realistic that they went with the facts they had, or thought they had, and proceeded from there. Going to the Helix facility was a good move. I think they could have been a little more intentional about reconstructing the night and questioning why Mr. Bones would kill Skyman. A logical conclusion would be that something changed in a bad way with the probation or the Helix situation, but a simple call to the authorities would have revealed Bones had little reason to kill Skyman.

[dave_worrell]

Some questions of my own:

1. What do you think of the interaction the Infinitors had with other teams from the era?

2. What do you think of the revelation that Mr. Bones was black? Did it seem relevant and organic to the story? Do you think establishing a character whose skin will typically not be seen as black undercuts the inclusion of a black character or is it simply an interesting bit of information that subtly comments on facile judgements?

3. Do you think Helix had a satisfying conclusion to their story?

4. Did Grundy randomly traveling from California to Louisiana to suddenly pop up at just the right place at just the right time take you out of the story?

5. What do you think of the way Hector and Lyta’s story played out over the years with the way Gaiman, Goyer, Robinson, and Johns adapted what the Thomases established?

6. Did you think the end of the series honored the rest of the series?

[TheCosmicMoth]

1: The only thing that was really suspicious about Marcie beforehand was how fast she moved from Norda to Obsidian… and well… some people are like that. If this were normal life, you’d say, “Well, that was fast,” and you’d move on. There were definitely more shocking Manhunter betrayals (Hi, Lana!).

2: You make sure that Jade DOES NOT have to go up against Artemis. WOODEN ARROWS. …Every time! They also should have done A LOT more to secure Grundy. After he broke out the first time, they really should have found a more permanent solution for him. The fact that they didn’t was pretty irresponsible (and that’s coming from me).

3: Speaking of irresponsible, I’m sure The Atom meant well, but I think he spent a lot of time botching how he mentored Nuklon. Pushing Albert towards the NBA kind of reaked of a man trying to live vicariously through his godson (The Atom is a notorious sports junkie). He made up for it in the end, but he should have seen a lot earlier that was not what Albert wanted (and that’s aside from the fact that a meta powered player is not exactly fair).

4: Oh Albert… speaking of things that should have been seen a lot earlier, Lyta was NEVER going to say yes. She is just not into Albert like that. Having been in his position more often than I care to admit, I understand why he had to shoot his shot. That being said, it’s hard to feel bad for him just like I never felt all that bad for myself because: IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OBVIOUS.

5: Did Lyta accept Hector as Sandman a bit too quickly? Yes. Was that story bleeping crazy and should it have been regarded with a bit more skepticism? Yes. Does it all turn out well in the end? …Yes.

Lyta and Hector will return in Neil Gaiman’s Sandman…

6: Honestly, I like the Wildcat from the Stargirl series a bit more. In an earlier thread, I noted how both versions of the character were seeking acceptance (albeit, for different reasons). Comic Yolanda’s search kind of ended after she admitted being “related to Helix.” After that… she only had one or two solid moments of character development (the cave in Australia and her “Private Lives” story). The Stargirl Wildcat, meanwhile, has had some serious character developments. I think Season 2 is going to be rough for her.

7: I also thought Sylvester’s death was much more heroic in Stargirl. He was killed in the midst of battle by Icicle trying to bide time for Pat to escape. Sylvester’s death in Infinity Inc was just… sad. He was unconscious and murdered using his friend’s power. …I’m not going to say which one was “better.” The Stargirl death was a more fitting end for a hero, but… there’s something to be said for how he died in Infinity Inc. Sometimes death is not heroic. Sometimes… it’s just sad.

8: I don’t like ANYTHING about how they handled things after Skyman’s death. They should have democratically picked a new leader and then stuck together. Instead, they fought about who was in charge and split up knowing that there was a hero-killer on the loose. They were lucky that Skyman was the only casualty.

I’m sad that we’re done with Infinity Inc. This team greatly influenced how I view superheroics as a legacy. It was great getting to read it with you guys! Much love!

[TheCosmicMoth]

@dave_worrell

1. I think Infinity’s interactions with other teams was always kind of odd because half of their history was spent on a different Earth (Earth-Two). I liked how they interacted with the Teen Titans, though. It definitely illustrated the difference in generations. Can you picture Hawkman chilling near the Titans’ rooftop pool? Also, the Obsidian-Raven ship can sail…

2. Here’s why I like the fact the Mr. Bones is revealed to be black (and this is a long, self-indulgent explanation, so bear with me): I lived in South Korea for almost five years. One day I was talking about race with a Korean friend and they told me that they were afraid of people of color when they saw them on the street. My friend told me that this was because of American television. They watched a lot of imported American TV shows growing up, and, in American TV, African Americans were portrayed, more often than not, as criminals- as bad guys. This made my friend unconsciously think of people of color as scary. It had nothing to do with who they really were- it had to do with how my friend was conditioned to see them.

In that regard, I really love that Mr. Bones ends up being black. Mr. Bones is not a bad guy. Hell, end of day, he was probably may favorite character in the book. Yet, people regard him as scary, mostly, because of how they are conditioned to respond to how he looks. So… yeah… it may feel like it was out of nowhere, but it makes a lot of sense to me that Mr. Bones is black. Just like people of color, he’s always been treated unfairly because of how people see him.

3. Helix did not get a satisfying conclusion to their story. It was definitely rushed. I feel like Thomas had it planned differently and then ran out of issues. At least Dr. Love is dead…

4. I mean, Grundy traveling that fast from Cali to Louisiana was pretty ridiculous, but… this is comics we’re talking about. It’s not sooo crazy that it’s going to take me out of the story.

5. I first ran into Hector and Lyta in Gaiman’s Sandman. I loved it. Still do.

6. I think the end of the series was pretty abrupt. I was hoping for/expecting more. The series must have been canceled a bit early as it didn’t feel like Thomas was prepared. It’s too bad…

[Don-El]

double bubble for memory.

[Don-El]

These JSA related books are out I just noticed and in fact picked up.