I don’t know if they’re ready for another reboot just yet. It’s been less than a year since Infinite Frontier and Future State started. While I get those weren’t necessarily hard-set reboots, they were acting as a jumping off point for new readers like most reboots. Starting over again, might not be the best move.
That said, a crisis-like event that pulls together current-favorite characters working with new or under-selling characters like Jon could certainly help. That said, I don’t see DC giving up on Jon anytime soon. They’ve put a lot of support behind him. He may not be selling the best, but it’ll always take time for new characters to become loved/appreciated under timeless mantels.
As far as a “traditional” Superman story/run, it might be worth just doing a mini-series or out of cannon series starring Clark (and featuring Jon) to boost sales real quick and keep the name hot. It might also be worth doing some Jon content in other media. An animated movie or appearance in the multiverse being explored in the live-action films. Heck, maybe even an HBO series. Obviously, there’s a Jon in Superman and Lois, but that’s not really the same person that we see in the comics no matter how much I enjoy the show and that character.
I don’t know, just some ideas. That said, I’m worry this discussion may get too far from the original topic. Happy to discuss it further in DMs or a different/more appropriate thread if you’d be interested.
I did not read Jon’s new series at the start. To me, it felt rushed and more marketing than story/character building. Now, that I’ve read the first 4 issues-- it does feel rushed. I feel a lot of true character-building gets missed.
Obviously, the birth of John was important to the heroes. It would seem to reckon Jon got to know a few of the JLA over the years. In the new, continuity Jon was around for 10 years before aging him.
That Wally/John didn’t have a relationship seemed fake. They should know each other-- since the heroes appear to always be linked to Jon.
Now that Ma & Pa Kent was brought back-- they don’t get used as they should. An excellent example, of properly using them is how they remembered Conner. Where were they when Lois was in labor? You’d think that they’d be there for the birth of their first grandson-- considering how worried everyone had to be about the pregnancy.
I like Jon and, frankly, his sexual preferences don’t interest me. Whatever path he takes or chooses is fine with me. I’d like to see more ‘character-building moments’ and save the coming out for something special down the line. I do remember a time when creators DID plot & plan for things like a #25.
After reading the first 4 issues, I feel like what is rushed is them trying to quickly establish Johns place within everything amid what all has happened. As a gay man I am very interested in his coming out and I hope when that issue hits that we will have a status quo. So far this feels like an epilogue to Taylors Suicide Squad run, which I enjoyed.
Jon was doomed from the moment he was introduced, back in Convergence. While they retro-ed (sort of) his birth in Son of Kal-El 4-- it should have been a hero/family-wide celebration.
I can understand and work with rapidly aging John. Again, he should know every hero connected to Clark-- with each acting as a sort of Aunt/Uncle. His grandparents and godfather (Perry White) are token characters in relation to John.
Like or dislike Damian, but he’s someone you can understand. He makes sense because they took time to round the character out. He doesn’t need the Bat-Family to define him. Wherever he shows up, you know it’s Damian.
Dean Cain expressed his opinion that it felt like John becoming bisexual was jumping on the bandwagon. I kind of agree. I’d like to get to know John & Jay more and see things progress more organically.
I also caught up with Son of Kal-El and I would say right now it’s a decent series. Not great, not a must read title, but I think it has promise. I’m hoping that Taylor is doing a slow burn here, slowly establishing things in Jon’s life before really turning on the heat and challenging him as a character. I mean, he’s antagonising the leader of a country who in other comics has been known to be extremely powerful – back in The Authority this was the same country that just bombed Moscow to a crater. I’m hoping that since they’re evoking that place, they’re going to play at that scale.
Especially so since it sounds like Phillip Kennedy Johnson is really going to do something bombastic and big with his Warworld Saga over at Action Comics. He’s talked about that series as being the “Heavy Metal Superman” he’s always wanted to see. I think if Son of Kal-El doesn’t step things up soon, it might end up lost in middle.
I really hated Dean Cain’s response because it’s absolutely clear he hasn’t actually read the stories with Jon so far. Like, he’s quoted as saying, “Why don’t they have him fight the injustices that created the refugees whose deportation he’s protesting?” And, I’m just sitting there wondering how anyone who’s read any of Jon’s run so far could say that. Like, he’s been far more vocal about social injustices than the Superman mantel has been in a while. Not to mention that Dean Cain has had some pretty… unsavory takes in recent years. I don’t know if I’m very keen on referring to him on Superman-related issues in the future.
I also have an issue with the idea that there needs to be this huge build up to a character coming out. Like, I get in the real world why it’s such a monumental and difficult thing to do. But it could be nice for comics and other media to just treat LGBT relationships and individuals within like they would any other character in a straight relationship. We didn’t need a bunch of issues where Clark established himself as straight and how attracted he is to women before starting a relationship with Lois. As long as the relationship is decently written, I don’t see why they need to build it up.
Actually-- for me-- John’s sexuality doesn’t matter to me. I think it should be a part of him-- not define him. I’m all for more diversity, but I just wish it came off more organic and not feeling like a marketing stunt. You are right: Cain probably never read the comic. And a lot of those writing press stories or making comments have not either. However, jumping on the bandwagon has been a common thread. Unfairly, I believe.
I’m always a big cheerleader for comics. I’ve liked Jon from the beginning. I just don’t believe DC has taken the time to round out the character more. That he never met Wally felt false to me. I kind of have always seen John as like a Dick Grayson-- everyone liked and knew him.
Even him taking over ‘Superman of Earth’ feels like a publicity stunt. Does anyone really believe Clark Kent is gone? John’s seeing his father’s history-- well, we all know DC History is never rock solid.
I don’t comment on character development until I have seen a full run. As for Bandwagoning, it’s kinda true. But I don’t have an issue if that’s what it takes for execs to give the “OK”.
I remember someone was angry that the Sims 4 waited so long to add different skin tones and said that it shouldn’t take Black people being laid out in the street for this to happen (I think they were threatened by Animal Crossing personally).
I feel like the Milestone push is jumping on a bandwagon, but I’m still gonna read it up lol!
Update: November 16’s Superman: Son of Kal-El #5 - which features the series star Superman/Jon Kent officially coming out as bisexual, is getting “unprecedented orders,” according to DC.
While the publisher didn’t put a number to it or specifically define “unprecedented,” it announced retail comic shop orders for the upcoming issue are exceeding orders for the series’ debut issue, which indeed would be unusual (if not unprecedented), albeit unspecific sales figure if accurate. Almost all DC and Marvel Comics series peak in sales with their first issue, with order numbers declining - sometimes rapidly - for subsequent issues.
In addition, DC announced it’s reprinting the first four issues of the series, which will now feature the DC Pride logo on the covers.
Readers and retailers can place orders on the second printings now through October 30, with the reprints anticipated to go on sale November 23 - the week after the special issue.
Superman: Son of Kal-El #5 is written by Tom Taylor, drawn by John Timms, colored by Hi-Fi, and lettered by Dave Sharpe.
According to the publisher, following a scene where Jon physically and mentally burns out by the responsibilities of being Metropolis’s Superman, his friend and fellow Daily Planet reporter Jay Nakamura “is there to care for the Man of Steel.”
Like the stock market or something, I always like to root these kinds of things on…
And while I don’t really have any interest in reading it, I still want to see it sell tons of copies.
Like Chuck Berry, “Go, Jonny, go!”
I’m guessing it’ll do maybe in the 150,000 to 200,000 range. Somewhere around there maybe… ?
I’m fairly new to reading Super Hero Comics (I grew up on Archie’s Sonic the Hedgehog and Manga) so I don’t really have a status quo for things, therefore I can’t really debate. I like what I’m reading or I don’t is all I can say haha.
I have a friend who is 50 (I’m 26) and he refuses to read any comics past the mid 2000’s and he is a huge Marvel fan.
I doubt that, but who knows. Fingers crossed. I don’t think digital sales are factored in and I got my copies through Comixology.
I’d like some more character development from current Jon in general. But, once again, I’m at the point in life where I don’t think a character like him coming out (especially as just bisexual) needs to be all that big of a deal. Like I said, I don’t need 20 issues of Clark explaining how much he likes girls and how straight he is before having a relationship with Lois. So I just don’t see why it’s all that necessary for Jon to do that with liking guys.
Now, would I have liked a bit more of a build up between Jon and Nakamura as characters developing a relationship? Sure. But it’s not because it’s a LGBT relationship, it’s because that’s just what I want for ALL relationships. I don’t think it needs more development because he’s bi. It just needs more development to make their love (or even just friendship) a little more developed for me. Then again, maybe that’s a bit weird to ask. I mean, I’ve kissed a girl on a first date. A kiss doesn’t need to be that big of a deal. Anyways, I’m rambling.
To address your other point of, “hopping on the bandwagon.” I guess. Maybe. I find it weird to phrase it that way because it feels like there should be some sort of limit on LGBT or minority characters? Like, at some point there will be too much, but I simply don’t believe that. Yes, there’s certainly more LGBT characters in comics that there used to be, but does that mean that there can’t be more?
Yeah, but in the retcon, he had a whole ten years-ish before getting aged up. He NEVER met Wally BEFORE then? Kind of hard to believe-- or maybe I’m just being picky! It might’ve sounded more true if it was more of: “How’s it been going, John?”
Here’s a quick funny story. I went to a different lcs to buy #4 because my usual spot was out. And the guy was trying to tell me that this wasn’t the issue everyone was talking about. I had to convince him that I knew that but I had been reading this series from the start and I still wanted #4.
I assume he had been getting asked all day if this was ‘the’ issue. But still.
I think I’m going to have a hard time finding #5 next month.
Wally didn’t exist through most of Rebirth though. And when he did he was doing his own thing. It does kind of make sense that they haven’t met yet. I hadn’t realized that they hadn’t, but it does make sense.
I doubt that, but who knows. Fingers crossed. I don’t think digital sales are factored in and I got my copies through Comixology.
I buy everything digitally too, and no, digital sales aren’t factored into any of this.
Digital sales for comics are treated like streaming numbers, only the company’s know what they are.
That said, I’m still surprised that comics sales in 2020 was supposedly the best ever…
Overall sales were up 6%; digital was up 33%
ICv2 and Comichron have released their joint statement analyzing 2020 comics sales for the year past, and although it may seem shocking, 2020 was the biggest year ever for comics and graphic novels. Despite shutdowns, lockdowns, store closures, remote working, a a global pandemic and the upheaval of everything in our lives, comics improved upon previous years of growth, fueled by an increase in kids’ comics sales, a manga boom as more anime aired on streaming services, the surge in collectibles and increased digital availability.
2020 comics sales were up 6% over 2019, coming in at $1.28 billion, according to a new joint estimate by ICv2‘s Milton Griepp and Comichron‘s John Jackson Miller . These numbers measure sales to consumers in the US and Canada. The increase came from online sales, big box retailers and digital sales, even in the face of a sharp decline in sales in brick-and-mortar comics shops and book stores.
Digital download comics sales also soared in 2020, up to $120 million from $90 million in 2019, a 33% increase. This came after years of flat digital sales, but obviously, a pandemic got people turning to different ways to read comics.
Graphic novel sales were up 9.1%, while periodical sales declined 19.7%.
So graphic novels and digital were up, but individual print issues were down.
Anyway, since the first issue of SUPERMAN: SON OF KAL-EL was in the 68,000 range, and this issue #5 will have “unprecedented orders” and “exceeding orders for the series’ debut issue,” then doing 100,000 is all but a given, I would say.
And it supposedly already has a “second printing,” which I guess will come out the same day as the first printing, but whatever…
So that’s where I came up with the 150,000 number for issue #5.
But yeah, we’ll see.
As an aside, an interesting Wark Waid interview from the other day on all (or at least many) things Superman; his Black Label project and Jon’s bisexual revelation, etc… it all begins at about the 2:57 mark, with the Jon stuff at about the 14:50 mark – I like his answer, and agree with all of it:
Again, considering it’s Mark Waid, it’s all but a certainty that there will be no marriage for his Black Label project. So it’s all but a certainty that DC will get my money for this…
A couple of more odds and ends on Jon:
The original colorists is a bit of a bigot (in my opinion) and doesn’t want to work at DC any longer because of what they’re doing with Jon, among other things. So, wish granted.
And the aforementioned simultaneous first and second printing…
