January Official DC Book Club: Peacemaker '87!

[HubCityQuestion]

Gotta admit, folks, this one is dry. Not one of my favorite reads, or the best of Kupperberg’s work. This book very much feels like an assignment to try and breathe life into a character DC had just acquired and make something of it. There are some daring ideas, to be sure, but the execution feels strained to me. The best parts, which really get into the psychology behind Peacemaker, are in the text sections, but this is not an epistolary novel. This is a comic book, and visual imagery is half the game here.

Personally, I feel like the first writer to do something interesting with Peacemaker at DC was John Rogers in the 2006 Blue Beetle series, years after his costumed era, reflecting back on it all, and hopefully trying to keep a new kid from making the same mistakes he did – especially when Jaime has a voice in his head who keeps telling him to kill.

Similarly, James Gunn’s Peacemaker feels like a reflective commentary on this ultra-machismatic incarnation after the fact. There’s nothing to say in a straightforward adaptation of this character today. But conceptually, Peacemaker does provide an interesting subject to observe from an outside perspective, as the symbol of a self-unaware, hyper-violent avenger from another time.

[HubCityQuestion]

(Anyway, if you really want to read a GREAT comic book about a Charlton character getting adapted for the DC Universe from this same period… there’s always The Question.)

[Green.Lantern]

Here’s my thoughts the first issue, which overall kind of reminded me of a more deranged version of a Saturday morning cartoon from when I was a kid:

1. I think “killing to keep the peace” really kind of depends on the situation. That is kind of what soldiers and even police are trained to do, if necessary. But that’s very different than just one random person who has a ton of money deciding he needs to kill people, which seems to be what’s going on here.
2. It’s definitely a strange relationship. He clearly despises his father, but his motivation seems to be to both to make up for what he did and to prove that he’s stronger than he was. It just seems sad to me that he clearly recognizes how horrible his father was but he’s still letting him define who he is.
3. No matter what Peacemaker does, it’s not going to erase or undo what his father did. I definitely think wanting to make the world better is an admirable thing, but it seems like he’s justifying doing bad and violent and things he’d rather not be doing to atone for what his father did. This doesn’t seem great to me, both because his father’s sins are his own and not his son’s responsibility, and also I don’t think he’ll ever reach a point where he feels like he’s balanced the scales.
4. I like to think anyone can overcome their struggles, but the path he’s on in this issue at least sure doesn’t seem like a good way to find inner peace.
5. I definitely think this is relatable. It’s really easy to define ourselves by the way other people view us. I think part of the reason Smith became “Peacemaker” is just because it’s a much better way for people to see you than “Massacre GI”.

[Alec.Holland]

Questions added for issue #2!

[Jay_Kay]

What was your perception of Peacemaker before you started reading the series? Has it changed?

Well, I think I said before that I mostly knew of Peacemaker before he became more prominent from the fact that The Comedian from Watchmen was based on him. So I figured he would probably be some military based soldier hero, probably not that dark, which is why Moore tweaked him in that way.

After seeing some of his stories now…whoo, Peacemaker in these comics makes The Comedian look rather stable in comparison.

Do you think that Peacemaker uses the ghost of his father as a scapegoat to avoid the guilt of killing to make peace?

I think there’s definitely some of that there, but I think it’s to less scapegoat his current killings and more to avoid his own past. He seems hyperfocused on his father’s crimes, which I can understand to a degree. In the strictest, utilitarian outlook, killing a small village in Vietnam kind of pales in comparison to a Nazi officer supervising the deaths of 50,000 dissents.

But neither Chris nor his “father” mention it. And if I remember right, it’s surmised by his “maid” that Chris might have done what he did in Vietnam to feel closer to his father. “Maybe if I commit mass murder, daddy will come back and love me.”

Maybe I’m just being an armchair psychologist, but I think he can only heal and truly be effective in his mission if he can accept that his father’s past does not define him, and work to atone for his own.

How do you think so many co-ordinated terrorist attacks across the globe would be received in modern day instead of the late 80s?

Oh, the world would be in war in, like, seconds. I can definitely see some higher-ups in many world governments seeing this as an opportunity to strike at other countries that they were just waiting for an excuse for in the first place. There’s so much evidence of this just within my own lifetime, let alone US and global history.

But I’m just gonna leave it there – don’t want to derail the topic with politics.

What purpose do you think the regular ‘umms’ and ‘ahhs’ from Dr. Lyton serve in the comic?

I think it serves two purposes. I think you could look at his pauses as him being naturally nervous being around Doctor Tzin-Tzin. With Tzin-Tzin’s power and control, it makes sense that he would be scared in actually talking to him.

The other purpose, I think, is to annoy the reader. Seriously, I can see this being a purposeful choice to give this verbal tic to one of the villain’s lackeys so that when he’s dispatched by either the Tzin-Tzin or Peacemaker, it’s more satisfying. I can almost see him being yeeted down a long shaft going “please, ummm, don’t aahh–AAAAAH!”

(I haven’t read ahead, so if I’m actually right and I spoiled it for someone, my apologies.)

The excerpt at the back of the issue mentions that there were actually 2 members of the Peacemaker program left when it was finally deactivated. Do you think this story would be improved or spoiled if Peacemaker had the other member of the program as his partner?

I think the fact that Chris is alone in dealing with the brainwashing and testing that was done to him definitely helps in making his struggles in dealing with his illness more interesting to read.

That said…we’re definitely going to see this second member, right? I mean, you don’t just casually drop a little nugget like that without using it for the climax. This is totally Chekov’s File. I’m just trying to figure out who it could be.

[Jay_Kay]

I can definitely feel you on the dryness – the overall story about the terrorist plot is really the least interesting part of the book, as of the first two issues.

It took a second to remember because it’s been ages since I read that run of Blue Beetle (plan to go through some of Jaime’s books before the movie comes out), but I forgot there was a Peacemaker in that book! Do we know that was supposed to be the same character?

I think there’s definitely a bit of playing against toxic masculinity in the current show and I think Chris’ more energetic and over the top exterior helps make him more interesting to see outside of his backstory, like with him rocking out to 80s hair metal in his underwear, talking about how the music was the best because back in that day “men weren’t afraid to be women.” His…weird woke-ness is definitely one of the more fun parts of the character.

[Green.Lantern]

1. Really all I knew of Peacemaker was from The Suicide Squad movie and the first issue of the current series. I had the impression that he was violent and kind of a jerk, but this definitely shows him as much more unstable than I thought.
2. It’s kind of hard (for me at least) to tell if the ghost of his father is a result of his guilt over killing or the cause of it. The more I read this series the more I have the impression that Peacemaker could easily be the kind of character who’d be a serial killer in Gotham that Batman would be going after, if circumstances were different.
3. I think it would cause a lot more panic these days (although it’s possible there is panic here, and we’re just not seeing it). I think the way the internet and social media affect things now would really magnify the impact of attacks like this. Although it does seem strange that a NATO base being attacked and multiple high-ranking Politburo members being murdered in the Kremlin in the middle of the Cold War wouldn’t cause more tensions.
4. I think it serves to make him stand out a little more as a character, and also shows that he’s nervous being around his employer. That’s my interpretation of it, anyway.
5. I think it would be a totally different series if Peacemaker had a partner. I feel like a lot of what drives Christopher’s behavior is feeling like he’s the only one capable of bringing about peace. And from the perspective of his handlers/employers, I feel like if they had another option for an agent, they’d take it in a heartbeat.

[HubCityQuestion]

@Jay_Kay

Do we know that was supposed to be the same character?

Absolutely! Chris even has flashbacks to this period, Nazi Ghost Dad and all.

[RexRebel]

Peacemaker 2 Discussion Questions

1. What was your perception of Peacemaker before you started reading the series? Has it changed?

Nut case who answers violence with violence, but seeing he has a goal and that is for society’s betterment, he becomes just another the means justify the ends.

2. Do you think that Peacemaker uses the ghost of his father as a scapegoat to avoid the guilt of killing to make peace?

That’s a possible scenario, but I think the ghost of his father manifestation is much more complex than that. Perhaps guilt, abandonment, justicfication, and others.

3. How do you think so many co-ordinated terrorist attacks across the globe would be received in modern day instead of the late 80s?

Total Chaos, lockdowns , mobilizations, target whatever ethnicity is involved, and a whole bunch of rattling sabres.

4. What purpose do you think the regular ‘umms’ and ‘ahhs’ from Dr. Lyton serve in the comic?

Frankly, didn’t notice them overly much.

5. The excerpt at the back of the issue mentions that there were actually 2 members of the Peacemaker program left when it was finally deactivated. Do you think this story would be improved or spoiled if Peacemaker had the other member of the program as his partner?

Hard to say, but I think it would be improved, as then we could see even more of a contrast between Peacemaker and the other program members.

[Jitsu]

Discussion questions have been added for Peacemaker #3!

[Green.Lantern]

1. It is pretty interesting how he can carry on a heated conversation with his father while in the middle of a fight for his life. Given that he’s such a good fighter as it is, with this massive instability and distraction going on, it makes me wonder how much better he’d be if he was focused. Of course it’s also possible that without this distraction he might not be as driven to keep fighting, and he might stop and think more about if what he’s doing is really making things better.
2. I think it’s a bit of both, in this series at least. As a character, Peacemaker seems like the kind of person who would only make things worse, but he’s fighting a massive terrorist plot that’s trying to collapse civilizations, so he actually is fighting a real threat.
3. I think this is one of the more interesting parts of this issue. It’s funny because Christopher is clearly aware that his father took his own life, but when he’s confronted with the thought that he’s been arguing with someone who is dead he’s really taken aback, like he never realized that before.
4. It’s sad because he thinks that his father took his life because he was weak, so he just seems driven to show that he’s stronger than his dad (by taking other lives). He almost seems to be more ashamed by how his father ended his life than all the horrible things he did during his life, which is a bit weird.
5. I don’t think he’s had a grip on reality at all during this series, sadly. It’s just gotten worse and worse the more pressure he’s under.

[RexRebel]

1. In the early pages of Peacemaker #3, it seems as though our hero consistently struggles with external dialogue distracting him as he fights–particularly when the dialogue has to do with his “performance” and how he is perceived in combat. How/why do you think Peacemaker struggles with his self-image? Do you think this is a weakness of his?

A weakness to the extent that it distracts him from fighting, but perhaps a strength as it motivates him to succeed, but not in the best way.

2. Overall, do you think Peacemaker’s vision of his father is helping fuel his desire to fight terrorism? Or do you think this is a truly a curse, that will only impede his fight for peace?

No not really, I think the constant discussions with his father lead to him becoming more violent and thus not leading to peace.

3. During one particular “conversation” with his father, Peacemaker seems to struggle with the idea that his father is actually a figment of his imagination. What do you think is Peacemaker’s perception of this vision?

Peacemaker apparently feels he is haunted by his father, and as such this ghost is his burden to bear.

4. It seems like the stigma around suicide is a key element of this series’ plot development. Why do you think Peacemaker struggles so much with that stigma, in regards to his father?

I would assume that seeing your family commit suicide would make that the most vile thing on the prod to you.

5. In the final pages of this issue, Peacemaker is called a “madman”, and seems to cackle maniacally as he kills an enemy. Do you think Peacemaker is indeed a madman? Has he lost his grip on reality?

Someone internalizing their demons and making them real is of course losing his grip on the standard definition of reality, but perhaps this is the only method in which he can function in this reality. A madman depends he has a goal and is internalizing what is necessary to accomplish said goals, is that mad, perhaps, but when he loses sight of the goal and still continues the behavior, is when he becomes a madman. It has happened yet, but perhaps soon.

[Jay_Kay]

1. In the early pages of Peacemaker #3, it seems as though our hero consistently struggles with external dialogue distracting him as he fights–particularly when the dialogue has to do with his “performance” and how he is perceived in combat. How/why do you think Peacemaker struggles with his self-image? Do you think this is a weakness of his?

It might be – maybe it’s myself putting the meta-narrative in there, but between his…unique costume and his not being as well known, he could have problems of feeling inadequate or lesser-than. I think in terms of his issues that’s probably a little further down on the list – might want to deal with his latent daddy issues first.

Speaking of which…

2. Overall, do you think Peacemaker’s vision of his father is helping fuel his desire to fight terrorism? Or do you think this is a truly a curse, that will only impede his fight for peace?

I guess as we see here the visions can make Peacemaker angrier and want to fight harder, but that can only work for so long. Using anger like that might make him sloppy and have others hurt, either incidentally or by his own hand.

3. During one particular “conversation” with his father, Peacemaker seems to struggle with the idea that his father is actually a figment of his imagination. What do you think is Peacemaker’s perception of this vision?

I forget if Chris says that they’re visions before (one of the downsides of reading an issue a week I suppose), and I don’t know if I want to entirely label him this way, but disorders like schizophrenia can have hallucinations so lifelike that some people who have it have talked about not just sights and sounds, but smells and other olfactory sensations. Part of Chris may understand that his father standing here isn’t possible, doesn’t make sense, but he just feels so real that he can’t help but go along with it.

4. It seems like the stigma around suicide is a key element of this series’ plot development. Why do you think Peacemaker struggles so much with that stigma, in regards to his father?

First off, I think that was just a thing that the writer Paul Kupperberg was exploring in his work at the time. Without spoiling one of his other books, his run/volume of Vigilante ends with Adrian Chase committing suicide after being unable to live with the lives he had taken.

As for why Peacemaker is so fixated on suicide, obviously seeing his father commit suicide at a young age probably did it. Seeing one’s father, someone who is supposed to inspire and set their children on the right path, end his own life must have influenced how Chris sees the world. I can’t help but wonder/worry if Chris might start having suicidal thoughts for his own crimes if he doesn’t address the root of his problems.

5. In the final pages of this issue, Peacemaker is called a “madman”, and seems to cackle maniacally as he kills an enemy. Do you think Peacemaker is indeed a madman? Has he lost his grip on reality?

His grip on reality has been kind of loose from the get-go, but yeah, he certainly seems more manic now in his drive to find Dr. Tzin-Tzin. I guess it ultimately depends on who survives this incident.

BONUS QUESTION : If you’ve been watching HBO’s Peacemaker show, how do you think the on-screen character compares to Peacemaker in this series?

Well, the Peacemaker on the show is obviously way cruder than in the comic, probably partly to do with their different upbringings. In the comic, you get the sense that his family was more upper middle class, even as he went into foster care. Meanwhile, the show Chris was raised in a more lower class, trailer park lifestyle.

The other big difference is that his father is still alive on the show, and while his dad wasn’t involved in the Holocaust, he was a supervillain who was very Neo-Nazi and Klan leader. Still, it seems like while his father was around to raise Chris (which may not have been such a good thing), but Chris’ childhood still suffered trauma in his being involved personally in the death of his brother.

Despite his upbringing (or maybe because of it?), Chris on the show seems oddly far more liberal and free with how he expresses himself than Chris in the comic, who seems far more rigid and conservative. I just can’t see comic Chris dancing in his tight-y whities listening to hair metal talking about how this era of music was the best because “men weren’t afraid to be women.”

[Alec.Holland]

The final batch of questions have been added!

[NYJt3]

Week 1

1. What is your opinion on Peacemaker’s “kill to keep the peace” approach to fighting terrorism? Do you think the tradeoff is worth the resulting sense of peace?

It’s not the best method in my option. Especially with to innocents involved. killing blocks out any chance for change and change by feel impossible for most but anything is possible

2. How do you feel about Peacemaker’s relationship with his father? How do you think his father’s past influenced the way Peacemaker executes his missions?

It doesn’t seem like a good relationship. Interesting seeing parallels with this and show with his dad. How there action and beliefs effected Chris drastically putting there beliefs in his head.
3. Can Peacemaker ever truly do penance for the crimes of his father? Is this endeavor worthwhile, or folly?

He definitely can once he realizes those crimes aren’t his. He’s a different person and doesn’t have be defined by his dad. So it’s definitely worthwhile.

4. Do you think Peacemaker can overcome his inner demons, and strengthen himself to be a better soldier? Do you agree with Dr. Bridgette D’ Abo that he is “an accident waiting to happen”?

He can overcome them definitely. He will make mistakes but it can be overcome. So he’s not an accident

5. How do you feel about Peacemaker’s struggle with living up to perceptions? Is this relatable at all?

If say yes it is. In life people always struggle to live up to views and perceptions wether it’s parents, personal heroes, friends, society, etc. In my opinion it’s best to live up to your own perceptions and not others but in not always easy to do.

[NYJt3]

Week 2

1. What was your perception of Peacemaker before you started reading the series? Has it changed?

It was more of the Tv/film perceptions. This one didn’t change it much as it’s more of an alternate perception to me but there are definitely a lot of similarities.

2. Do you think that Peacemaker uses the ghost of his father as a scapegoat to avoid the guilt of killing to make peace?

Maybe or he might not be doing concisely. Could be due to trauma and thus the scapegoat was created to ease it.

3. How do you think so many co-ordinated terrorist attacks across the globe would be received in modern day instead of the late 80s?

Definitely would be more strong looked at today. May even lead to more violence and war over it rather than it being a one issue thing.

4. What purpose do you think the regular ‘umms’ and ‘ahhs’ from Dr. Lyton serve in the comic?

Not a clue. They confused and made the flow stop as I tried to figure out how to say them. Maybe free or a speech impediment for his character.

5. The excerpt at the back of the issue mentions that there were actually 2 members of the Peacemaker program left when it was finally deactivated. Do you think this story would be improved or spoiled if Peacemaker had the other member of the program as his partner?

Maybe as a storyline or something like that. Maybe just having someone who went through something similar to him may easy his pain more

[NYJt3]

Week 3

1. In the early pages of Peacemaker #3, it seems as though our hero consistently struggles with external dialogue distracting him as he fights–particularly when the dialogue has to do with his “performance” and how he is perceived in combat. How/why do you think Peacemaker struggles with his self-image? Do you think this is a weakness of his?

It could be. Especially how his father probably drilled having a good and respect self image is best into him as a child of Hilters too men having a good image seems key thus being a struggle in his life.

2. Overall, do you think Peacemaker’s vision of his father is helping fuel his desire to fight terrorism? Or do you think this is a truly a curse, that will only impede his fight for peace?

Both. Is fuels his rage and causes chaos but also helps him think things through in way

3. During one particular “conversation” with his father, Peacemaker seems to struggle with the idea that his father is actually a figment of his imagination. What do you think is Peacemaker’s perception of this vision?

His dad was real so maybe something with dealing that he’s gone as a piece of him must have cared. Or he doesn’t want to admit he’s lost it.

4. It seems like the stigma around suicide is a key element of this series’ plot development. Why do you think Peacemaker struggles so much with that stigma, in regards to his father?

Growing up he probably worshiped his dad and saw him as strong. Thus making him struggle with the idea of suicide as weak or strong

5. In the final pages of this issue, Peacemaker is called a “madman”, and seems to cackle maniacally as he kills an enemy. Do you think Peacemaker is indeed a madman? Has he lost his grip on reality?

A mix. He’s probably a little out of it but hasn’t completely lost it

[RexRebel]

• hallucination of his late father by his side. During one of these conversations, Wolfgang “reminds” Peacemaker that he has just as big a part in this war as those he’s fighting against. Do you think that this particular bit of conversation derives from Peacemaker casting doubt on his own role? Is he truly an icon of peace at this point, still hoping to be the hero that saves the day, or has the mental torment triggered a response to execute mercilessly in hopes of quelling Wolfgang’s dialogue by any means possible?

Yes I believe the violence is causing Peacemaker to doubt he is following the right path, but he has no other means of accomplishing it and is using his fathers mental ghost as justification to meet his goals.

• Do you think Peacemaker is haunted by these visions because he craves his father’s attention on him in any way he can, which is why Wolfgang wasn’t necessarily expelled when he “jumped” from the plane? Moreover, do you think Peacemaker is still trying to prove to his father that he can make him proud, or is it more so that he’s trying to prove him wrong?

Actually all three, what son doesn’t want his fathers love and attention, and to make him proud, in addition he wants to prove that he is not his fathers sons due to the evil he committed, and it is literally tearing him in two.

• On page 12, we see a man dead on the ground with a collapsed sign that reads “PEACE” while Peacemaker shouts “I’ll give them death … more than any of them bargained for!” and guns down the surrounding soldiers. How do you feel about this clashing imagery? Additionally, by “avenging” them, do you believe Peacemaker is contributing to the protestor’s wishes for real peace?

I think the clash of imagery reflects Peacemakers own soul, so to speak, as to contributing to Peace, as in killing those against it, as in perpetuating violence not at all.

• Do you believe that Peacemaker is aware that his father’s ghost still looms in the back of his mind, or does it seem more like Wolfgang is creating a completely different persona in Peacemaker’s conscience when he’s shown to be toasting to the thought of them being “reunited”?

Yes he is aware, but what he is aware of, I am undecided as this is the Comics, and ghosts or possession is not out of the realm of possibility… I feel it is more like Wolfgang is toasting his victory in having his son become him, of course on some levels all sons want to be there fathers.

• Overall, it’s implied that Peacemaker may have depended on this psychosis to aid him in carrying out his mission as “No sane man could’ve done what had to be done out there.” Do you think this relates to Peacemaker’s hesitation to perform certain contract kills in the HBO series as he may yet be too “sane”? Would you consider the latter a desperation to cling to his humanity?

Do and definitely think he has at least for awhile a conscious regarding this which is playing out in the HBOMAX series.

[NYJt3]

Week 4

1. We see that Peacemaker continues to struggle with the hallucination of his late father by his side. During one of these conversations, Wolfgang “reminds” Peacemaker that he has just as big a part in this war as those he’s fighting against. Do you think that this particular bit of conversation derives from Peacemaker casting doubt on his own role? Is he truly an icon of peace at this point, still hoping to be the hero that saves the day, or has the mental torment triggered a response to execute mercilessly in hopes of quelling Wolfgang’s dialogue by any means possible?

I think more of an attempt to quell his dad. Thinking if does what he asks will it lead to him leaving or as a chance to see if his dads method does lead to peace.

2. Do you think Peacemaker is haunted by these visions because he craves his father’s attention on him in any way he can, which is why Wolfgang wasn’t necessarily expelled when he “jumped” from the plane? Moreover, do you think Peacemaker is still trying to prove to his father that he can make him proud, or is it more so that he’s trying to prove him wrong?

Probably as a kid seeing the Suicide children tend to blame themselves for there parents downfalls at time and maybe he might have thought it was his fault leading to him trying to prove to his “dad” that he is the kid he wants but conflicts with his beliefs at times.

3. On page 12, we see a man dead on the ground with a collapsed sign that reads “PEACE” while Peacemaker shouts “I’ll give them death … more than any of them bargained for!” and guns down the surrounding soldiers. How do you feel about this clashing imagery? Additionally, by “avenging” them, do you believe Peacemaker is contributing to the protestor’s wishes for real peace?

No really. His hearts in the right place but his actions aren’t the best

4. Do you believe that Peacemaker is aware that his father’s ghost still looms in the back of his mind, or does it seem more like Wolfgang is creating a completely different persona in Peacemaker’s conscience when he’s shown to be toasting to the thought of them being “reunited”?

Maybe both. It could be an alternate personality of sorts or maybe just the imagery showing his false sense of inner peace. Or it the result of a villain

5. Overall, it’s implied that Peacemaker may have depended on this psychosis to aid him in carrying out his mission as “No sane man could’ve done what had to be done out there.” Do you think this relates to Peacemaker’s hesitation to perform certain contract kills in the HBO series as he may yet be too “sane”? Would you consider the latter a desperation to cling to his humanity?

A mix a both. The insanity may lead to his actions but his humanity might have kept him from going to far. So a mix of both in a way.

[NYJt3]

Overall this was a fun trip to the past. Some classic art and story was fun. It was very jumbled and unorganized at time. But moments with Chris and his dad were interesting. Overall seems like if this story was spread out more and be allowed to flesh out everything it would have been better but in short a fun trip to comics past.