Is the way women are drawn in comics a form of body shaming?

General Discussion
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@Misfithighlander, there is a difference between sexy and exploitive, for starters you cant exploit an illustration, just like you cant objectify and illustration. There is an arguement that comic companies exploit hormonal teenage desires though.

As for the 90s, I guess got confused with pretty much all the top best selling comics of all time being from the early 90s. Comics boom, spectator boom, whatever you want to call it, interest in comics was up. Marvel went under because of mismanagement, not from a lack of interest in their characters. Too many foil enhanced, triple gloss, variant covers, and too many issues to collect in general are usually cited for the industry problems at the time. Printing more than they sold doesnt change that they were selling more than they had before. DC & Marvel both had serious competition at the time too, with Image and Dark Horse.

But none of that has anything to do with with your question of body shaming, or exploitation, and you’re right that it didnt really boil down to sexy cover art. Again, illustrations cannot be exploited and cant be objectified as they are not sentient, animate, cannot feel, cannot be manipulated, impregnated, ect. They are already “objects” It’s just lines on paper. That Gen 13 cover I posted for example, not a real person, just a drawing. Cannot feel shame, humiliation, regret, anger, cannot be exploited. The artist can be exploited. A model for reference could be exploited. Not an illustration as it is literally not real in any sense of the word. I know this sounds like I’m being facetious and talking down, but I really cant stress the importance on “not real by any stretch if the imagination”.

Sex appeal is literally marketing 101. It is the most widely used advertising strategy for a reason, it works. It isnt exclusive to comics either, see Hollywood, video games, and the in particular music industry. Think about that, the MUSIC industry. Will Susan Boyle ever hit Katy Perry’s level of brand appeal? Not likely.

Comics are a visual medium, they are selling art, art is selling comics. J. Scott Campbell isn’t making some grand statement about teen girls with his art and it isnt necessarily representative of how thinks women should look. He is delivering on things that appeal to his demographic, boobs and such. It is part of the overall industry appeal, the FANTASY aspect. I would need to see some evidence that there is any negative affect on anyone to have a problem with how people are drawn in comics, but all data on sexual imagery in societies suggest that the more you suppress and stigmatize sexuality in a society, it usually correlates with a higher percentage in sexual crimes.

So I really cant find the problem with hyper sexualized illustrations. There is no evidence that drawing women that look like 10 year old boys has any positive impact on society or the industry or how beloved a character becomes. An Adam Hughes illustrated cover will always outsell any John Romita, Jr. illustrated cover, no matter the content inside. Should all females be physically fit with double d’s? probably not. Should the industry fight against the desire for sex appeal? Only if it wants to die out.

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The art itself is not considered body shaming. But I can see how it might contribute in a way.
Imagine a 12 year old boy who reads comics all day. They could easily see some of the drawings of female characters and that could set their standard of beauty to them. If said 12 year old boy grows up to be a garbage POS, they could easily end up criticizing women for “not being skinny with giant breasts” or for “not having a body that looks good in tight clothing” or something along those lines. These acts are body shaming. The drawing itself is not. But it instills this boy’s standard of what they think female bodies should look like. It’s up to that person to go out and be a garbage human being to make it body shaming, though.

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It really depends on the artist

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Does it even matter
If I wanted to get political I’d watch Ben Shapiro

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Zombedy –

The thing is, an idea can be exploited. No, a single drawing, a representation of a character cannot be exploited. As for whether or not a particular drawing exploits the fictional character depicted is another discussion that could take 20 to 200 more pages, but ```
its up to the individual reader, isn’t it? How much a moment in a story makes them think and feel?

The job of a storyteller is to make others think and feel. It’s the job of any kind of artist.

The redesign of Wonder Girl and Solstice caused me to think up this question. This wasn’t the choice of the penciller. It was editorial direction, hopeful of pandering to the readers’ salacious nature. Being that both characters are teenage girls, it was a kinda pervy editorial direction. And before anyone suggests I wouldn’t say that to Dan Didio or Jim Lee’s face, I really would. Who knows-- in an indirect way, maybe I just did.

You seem to be defending comic book artists when no one attacked them. I’m pretty sure the people on this website really, truly love their comic book artists. You talk up facts, but don’t provide any-- from an objective point of view, you sound like you are making excuses. Subjectively, you’re lacing your opinion-- no doubt valid in some aspects-- with a vague sense of knowledge. That knowledge may be solid, but is not evidence or facts. You don’t have all the data about anything. The only people who want to believe in ‘all the data’ are advertising and network executives.

Never give me a teaching moment, LOL. Look, man, you started this by playing the artist card, and anyone who says that they don’t mean to talk down is trying to talk down you. I really, really mean it when I say I hope to never to make this personal reference again-- but I have written endless scripts of all kinds, and books, too. All with names on them that appear to belong to someone else-- taking the bows, and taking the bombs. I have actually been a nude model-- I’m not bragging, I went to the UK, got sick, and my goofy broad shoulders looked massive compared to my wasted torso. Teachers wanted me for their classes, and professionals wanted to draw me. I was UNHEALTHY. After that, people sent wanna-be models on the cusp to me so that could decide for themselves if the modeling life is for them.

This is a gentle, casual website, and here? Nobody’s opinion is more valid than anybody else’s. Not mine. Not yours.

Anyway, for me–? The illustrations are only part of the overall equation. I come to comics for the whole of the storytelling.

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Andrewing.soundeditor - Thank you for the most thoughtful response, and to the actual question.

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Jayson Todd- Yep, sometimes

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-robin-fan- Yea, I got nuthin’ again

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I think Andrewing.soundeditor has it right. It’s up to the individual reader to control his or her own reaction to something (whether it’s a comic book cover, a movie, a conversation, whatever).

When someone asks the question, “was that offensive?” the answer will always be, "it depends. "

Are over-sexualized images a form is body-shaming? It depends. Is your self esteem linked to over-sexualized images? If so, you probably feel shamed because you’re not living up to the impossible.

Did boys in the 60’s feel shamed because they didn’t look like Charles Atlas? Maybe. Did boys in the 80’s feel shamed because they didn’t look like Arnold Schwarzenegger? Maybe.

Should Charles Atlas or Arnold Schwarzenegger take some responsibility for making boys (whose self esteem is linked to impossible images) feel bad? In my opinion, no.

Female super models shouldn’t worry about young girls. Body builders should feel bad about young boys. Images on TV, billboards, in comics, etc. shouldn’t be censored because somebody, somewhere might feel bad about themselves. (Maybe they should be censored for other reasons. But that’s a different discussion.)

The individual person needs to take responsibility for themselves and their reaction.

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@MisfitHighlander, saying "when people say they arent talking down to you, they really are " is empty bs that someone tells themselves to justify going in attack mode and making things personal. Here, “when somebody says they arent bragging, they are”. You list off a bunch of things that supposedly qualify you to talk down to me and put yourself on a pedestal and say you have an opprotunity to teach, yet didnt 10 people just come on and explain body shaming to you? Are you seriously dismissing me because I dont have the narrative structure of a professional writer? Any excuse to dismiss I guess. Yeah, I’m not a writer. You got me.
Again, I wasnt being facetious. The fact they are fictional characters and not real people is a very important detail as it pertains to exploitation specifically. Yes, an idea can be exploited to the detriment of the person who had it. Like the way the concept of Superman got exploited to the detriment of Siegel and Shuster. But Superman himself isnt the victim of exploitation as he isnt real. You seem to think that’s in the eye of the beholder. It’s not.
I also dont think you’re attacking creators, I was merely trying to cover any sort of exploitation involved. The image I posted was from J Scott Campbell, that’s why I brought him up. Trying to cover who is being exploited with that comic (body shaming had already been explained)
Like I said, there is an arguement that hormonal teens are being exploited. I also noted it was an impossible standard of beauty. As another posted, young men using the imagery to set their standard of beauty could be harmful their perception of women and future relationship endeavours. I think thats a fair point. Notice they didnt have to list a bunch anecdotal accolades or “make it personal”. They just brought an idea to the table. Next time you want to make it personal, dont bother.

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Zomebedy–

Chill, man.

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Been like that since the 1930s