Sociopathology is not a mental illness. People are deluded in many ways. Some people are simply terrorists. They want to induce terror to create an outcome, bring light to their sociopolitical agenda. That is not mental illness.
It’s easy to say “oh, these terrorists are mentally ill. That’s why they do this. It’s a cop-out. Sure, some are, but some are not. They are just vile people who believe their ends justify their means.
Some people just want to watch the world burn. That is not necessarily mental illness. It’s just not “typical” thinking/behavior. Was Bin Laden mentally ill or just desirous of pushing a sociopolitical agenda? I argue the latter. He was fully cognizant and aware of his behavior. He just didn’t care if people who didn’t fall into his sociopolitical group died.
Yeah, no, I’m really regretful of my choice in the word mentally ill. People who are mentally ill are not a risk to society. Don’t associate them with danger, it’s awful. The individuals who commit mass crime are awful for many, many reasons. And there isnt one thing that they all have in common. So don’t perpetuate harmful stereotypes. I apologize for my use of it. Alright, I’m going quiet again.
I do think bin laden was mentally ill and so is anyone else who does this type of thing sociopaths are mentally ill if you want to kill some one for no reason besides some wacko agenda you come up with in your head or because you have been brainwashed by others agendas you are mentally ill plain and simple you may not be diagnosed as mentally ill but you are there is something mentally wrong with you if you want to do theses things
But, that is the issue.?you or I might think that agenda is “wacko”, but to them it is not. And in many cases can be supported through selective use of facts.
Sociopathology is abnormal psychology, but not mental illness. Please don’t confuse the two. Just because something is not the norm, does not mean it is illness.
@DeSade Ah, DeSade, you remind me of Bruce in the Snyderverse, “If there is even a 1% chance . . .” This movie might incite traumatic violence! Close the gas stations and the liquor stores! Hey, now that you mention it . . . Degrees can work both ways. What if I told you there was a way to release a movie without the risk? One simple little fix and you can keep all the cars on the road. Even though, you know, a better public transportation system might be a good idea . . .
For the record, I don’t think bin Laden was mentally ill. I’m pretty sure he knew exactly what he was doing. And it wasn’t abnormal psychology. From his perspective, from his culture (consisting of the vast majority of people whom he held in high regard), he was doing the right thing. He was defending his culture from what he perceived as an encroaching, pervasive threat.
So to the Joker movie… This movie is aimed at the adult, American audiences. The same audience which the recent Rambo movie is targeting. Or Angel has Fallen. Or It. Or Avengers: End Game. Or Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Or Glass. Or John Wick. Or Us. Or The Prodigy. Or literally, hundreds of other films which entertain the viewer through the use of violence (thereby, glorifying violence).
Could someone with an American perspective find Joker to be a threat to their culture? Sure. On the other hand, could someone raised in an American culture find Joker to be instructional, as a means of defending their culture from perceived threats? Sure.
I mean, Rankin & Bass have a delightful movie about Rupolph. And at the end of the movie, our heroes defeat the monster by literally pulling its teeth, straight from its head! And then, they laugh about it, as the now harmless monster feels hopelessly for his missing teeth. It’s barbarous! And we’ve been encouraging small children to watch this film for decades, with its glorifications of torture. How terrible! What if a child mimics this behaviour at recess?!
If you didn’t note my sarcasm, please don’t watch Joker. You’re obviously not quick enough to see the difference between play-acting and real-life.
I am not afraid to go to the movies, period. I recall the fear of violence when “Colors” hit the theaters. Yes, there was some gang violence at some theaters, but it was a matter of knowing your city, being respectful, and not starting any BS that could jeopardize your life.
Yet our political leaders fail to enact legislation and enforce the legislation meant to protect citizens. To be honest, going to the movies is just as safe as going most places these days. That is a pretty gloomy statement of how much danger we are in every day of our lives. Churches, schools, stores, nightclubs, concerts and movie theaters have all been scenes of terrible violence in recent years. Are you going to live in fear or are you going stand up for you rights to live unimpaired?
Regarding what causes violence and the mentally ill, I have some thoughts.
I reject 100% that those who commit acts of violence are necessarily crazy. People can and do choose to do wrong. We all do this in small ways in our own lives, and some people do it in larger ways.
I 99.99% disagree that people do bad stuff because they come from tough situations. I agree that tough situations can give you more opportunity and more encouragement to do wrong, but at the end of the day, you are still responsible for your own actions. You might get dealt a bad hand, but you choose how you play your hand. Few if any people have such a bad hand that they must do evil.
I disagree that mentally ill people are not dangerous. Mentally ill people are people, and all people have the capacity to be dangerous. Mentally ill people, not being quite in their right mind, have a greater chance of being dangerous. That doesn’t mean we assume all people with mental illness are dangerous, but there’s nothing wrong with being aware of statistical reality.
Whoa, be a little careful with that huge “bad situations” estimate! While I personally hate the stereotypes assigned to lower income communities and households, there are definitely times when people make destructive choices because they’re faced with little alternative (coerced by threat or via “enlistment” by elder family members), or have been so heavily exposed to damaging environments from such a young age (gang recruitment can begin as early as elementary school) that they don’t know how to get out once they’re in.
But that’s an entirely different story than the one that’s being presented in the Joker, so I’m gonna slink back into the safe ether of Random threads.
@DGW
I was arguing the inverse. That even though liquor stores and gas stations have the highest rate of violent crime at their locations, it is folly to close them down.
Also, I’m against theaters being closed. One stands a much greater chance of dying in a fatal car crash. If people are truly interested in lowering the amount of deaths, they would have better luck banning all cars from the road. Again an idea that is not, nor should not happen.
I’m not sure how you came to the inverse conclusion. Perhaps sarcasm doesn’t “read” as clearly in this thread.
I’m conflicted. On the one hand, I am interested in seeing the movie, and I want to be all patriotic and say that I won’t be beholden to terrorists or let the threat of violence stop me from living my life.
On the other hand, I am genuinely afraid because, to quote Linkara, “Terrorism is real. There are people out there who want to kill me either because I’m from a different country or just because they’re an angry misanthrope with a gun.” We’ve seen countless times the damage that terrorism — both foreign and domestic — can do to our way of life. You all remember the impact 9/11 had on American society: our collective sadness, rage, and above all, fear had been brought to the forefront of the collective consciousness and dominated our thoughts and actions in ways not seen since the end of the Cold War (and the fact that the government used the threat of terrorism as an excuse to take away our freedoms certainly didn’t help.)
Lastly, on the mental health debate: I won’t say much because I don’t have the right frame of mind for this debate, but let me just say that there is a COLOSSAL difference between being crazy and being mentally ill. Jessica Cruz has a mental illness. Victor Zsasz is crazy.
When I’m talking about people being responsible for their crimes, I’m not really talking about grade school kids or even teenagers. We are all born into environments where we are taught what to believe, and as we age, especially around the teenage years, we start to develop more a sense of ourselves and separate out what we were taught with what we personally believe. At some point, you have reached a level of maturity where you can no longer blame your upbringing for your poor decisions. You may have been forced into a gang when young, but you are the one who continues to stay in a gang harming people as an adult, and yes, you bear responsibility for your choice to remain even if there is no good way out.
I withdraw my statements that mentally ill people are more dangerous. I believe we should confront uncomfortable truths, and it makes sense to me that mentally ill people would be more prone to acts of violence, but some brief research didn’t back up my understanding. The research didn’t specifically contradict it either, but it seems that this conclusion is something that isn’t easily parsed out from data, so maybe I’m wrong, and even when I said that, I wasn’t equating mental illness with violence but just suggesting there’s some correlation which again may not be correct.
Urr, that sounded sarcastic. I meant I’m glad to know you’re taking into consideration environmental and demographic factors, because I didn’t get that impression the first time around.
Gotcha. Let me see if I can try to clarify. I absolutely think environmental factors can contribute. I don’t think these environmental factors completely remove people’s responsibility for their actions in the vast majority of cases.
Ugh, I just checked the seatings for my showtime. I got me and my gf seats in the second-to-last row of the theater. In the very last row, behind us, there’s a single seat taken. Just one lone person going to see the movie by himself, sitting far in the back…
Not gonna lie, that puts me on edge. Do I have cause to be worried about this or am I just being overly paranoid here?
It’s so irritating that this is even a thing to consider.
Just knowing that there’s someone right behind us, and that if something were to happen from him I’d have zero reaction time. That’s what’s getting to me.
If it makes you feel any better Aylex, when I last checked out my seats, I turned out to be the lone person in a row. So there’s a chance it’s not someone looking for trouble; it might just be an irritated fangirl who can never get her MCU-worshipping, not particularly geeky friends to join her for a DC flick.
If I were particularly concerned, I wouldn’t go. I encourage people not to let an extremely slim probability event ruin their enjoyment, but if I felt like I couldn’t enjoy the movie because of my concern, I wouldn’t go.
Personally, I’m usually armed myself, and it always feels good to know you have a chance to be something more than a victim in the event the extremely unlikely does happen.
