Harley Quinn [Does she ROCK! or SUCK!]

General Discussion Movies & TV
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Look I will be the first to admit that I was personally pissed with the whole idea of funbags ‘Harley Quinn’ becoming a major league baddie. Sure she was comic relief a sexual outlet for Mr. J. Hey Batman had the OG sex kitten in CatWoman so sure his counterpart needed something. So OK FINE Batman The Animated Series gives him a lady.

-skipping the Harley Quinn comics on purpose-

The years pass and Batman The Animated Series becomes the stuff of legend, but you have these little callbacks to Harley in the Batman animated movies and Batman Beyond, so she does not disappear. Time continues to pass and the Suicide Squad movie is announced and released. Now diehard comic fans went to see it because it was a live-action Suicide Squad movie, but we know that 90% of the male viewers went to see it because the smoking Margot Robbie was slipping into the second skin costume of Harley Quinn.

The film completely sucked the only TWO characters that came off the page anywhere close to what we wanted to be was Amanda Waller and YES, Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn (Jared Leto’s Joker got a bad review but I personally kind of liked the new take on Mr. J. But that’s a different conversation). I mean her Harley Quinn stole the movie completely, even the ‘white picket fence 2.5 kids and a dog’ dreamscape fit the character like a glove.

So now we are in Harley Quinn fever. We get an announcement about an animated series coming to DC Universe and a Harley Quinn solo movie and YES Margot Robbie is going to reprise the character. I was personally happy to see super hot Margot Robbie, but sick of this HARLEY QUINN CRAP!!!

Now the DC Universe Harley Quinn Animated Series releases. I reluctantly watch it a few days after it airs, 30 seconds into the 1st episode my jaw drops, I start laughing my butt off and 22 mins and 30 seconds later. I am still laughing but I am calling my wife and friends am telling them they have got to watch this Animated Show, because it DAMN sure is not a F$%&ing cartoon. It is completely and totally ROCKSTAR genius.

So I am starting to think the solo live-action Harley Quinn movie may raise the bar set by Wonder Woman. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!! Pure trash! WB released that crap hoping to make back the money simply by selling the sex appeal of Harley, Canary, and Huntress. That film would have been better off destroyed and blamed COVID-19 on it never being released.

Now back to DC Universe Harley Quinn Animated Series. Each episode has gotten better, the character development grows. The ARC of Harley Quinn ‘sidekick’ to Harley Quinn ‘boss ■■■■■’ expanses in a believable way with every second of the show. I mean anyone that can bash this show has 0 sense of humor(yes it is dark, but funny is funny), does not understand the trails that it takes to become a hero or villain in this case, and you hate sex. (the idea of Giganta and Dr. Psycho, ‘KITEMAN’ need I say more). I mean the idea of the LOD ‘not supporting a particular brand of evil’ and the idea of what they are not supporting. This is straight-up 1980’s Mel Brooks Adult comedy. LOL who knew that there where that many Jews in Gotham. LOL!!! I mean I have only seen like 5 black people, but the main 1 they have is HALOIROUS and COMPLETELY UNCHAINED!!!

Look I could go on and on but bottomline DC Universe Harley Quinn Animated Series Season 1(and the first 3 episodes of Season 2) have earned its place next to and I cannot believe I am saying this. You have Batman: The Animated Series at #1 as it was the blueprint for Superman, Justice League, Justice League Unlimited, Young Justice, etc. However, I have to place Harley Quinn as #2, and for all that think I am insulting these great shows I am NOT. I am simply acknowledging that things must be RELITIVATE TO THE TIME and Harley Quinn Animated Series is today what Batman The animated series was back then.

HARLEY QUINN IS AN A LEAGUE VILLIAN! SHE STANDS ALONE WITH HER CREW! NO NEED TO BE IN LOD or INJUSTICE LEAGUE!

Verdict: Harley Quinn Animated Series DOES NOT ROCK. IT KICKS F%^&KING ASS!!!

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So Far so good… What do you guys think of Harley Quinn Season 2 So far?

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I don’t like the idea of Harley and Ivy getting together so I stopped watching, and no it has nothing to do with me being the Joker

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The part of this I agree with is that the Harley Quinn show is good.

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I am enjoying it. They are not rushing the storyline. So it is fun to watch.

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I liked Birds of Prey…

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Ok…so before the show came out I had a issue with that idea too. Then I realized ‘Why be mad about something, I already know’. I mean let’s be honest that relationship was building all the way back in Batman The Animated Series, so nothing new. Also they have so far showed it really well, not like a sex, or hook-up thing but like a real love thing.

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The MOVIE or OG TV SHOW? You must be talking about the TV Show, which I was not crazy about. Simply because I knew then, like I will still support now that comic book based movies and tv shows were too comic booky. The writers, and producers of the 80’s/90’s era thought we wanted to see a live-action comic book, and not a real life based comic book story. Some standout shows from back in the day, off the top of my head would be ‘Louis and Clark’, ‘Smallville’, mainly because they handled the characters like real people and not like comic book characters.

That If you are talking about the Birds of Prey Movie. Please do me a favor, no do yourself a big favor #BLESSUP. Re-watch ‘Suicide Squad’ and re-watch ‘Birds of Prey’, compare the Harley in both films. Let me tell you what I see! I see that the movie studio has a formula for F%$King Up well developed characters. It is a re-print of ‘Batman Returns’ to ‘Batman Forever’. You go from fine dining to taco bell…no, no, no that would be wrong…I meant jack in the box tacos. But don’t take my word for it, look for yourself.

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I was talking about the movie (I haven’t seen the tv show yet). Maybe I just have low standards when it comes to movies, but I really enjoyed the Birds of Prey movie. I thought the fight scenes were well choreographed and the soundtrack was awesome. I honestly can’t see anyone else in Harley’s role than Margot Robbie. I thought she was awesome. Plus Ewan McGregor was hilarious as Black Mask. He didn’t wear the actual mask as much as I would have liked, but overall I enjoyed his character.

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Wow, did you write that while hopped up on Pixie dust? Woah man.

Yes the Animated Series is great and was the whole reason I paid into DCU in the first place and havent regretted it since.

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I Felt BOP (ha, birds of prey) was the perfect DC version of Captain Marvel movie.

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But they have been shown as BEST FRIENDS in the animated series. I think that media makes all fictional bffs into a couple too much, like Captain America and Bucky, or Tony and Rhodey. Why can’t we just have them as friends

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I am not judging your standards in movies. I am not saying that Margot Robbie is a bad Harley. I think she is incredible as Harley! I mean she is pulled directly off of the art board. What I am saying is the way she plays Harley in Suicide Squad is pretty spot on to what we expect. The way she plays Harley in Birds of Preys is like Mr. Magoo. I mean they took all of her POWER from her in the movie. She is just this dim witted hot chick, getting by on luck, sex appeal, and that her ex-boyfriend being a badass. I am stating that she is much more than that, and they dummied up the portrayal of the character. That’s all.

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My Pixie dust abuse is not up for discussion. I have the right to use as much as I deem necessary within the confines of my own home, I thank you very much! :grin:

I do agree it was the DCU Captain Marvel.

Both Bad!

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True!
But here in the USA female friendships and male friendships are very different.
I have been told that women don’t have issues being naked in front of each other.
For guys that is a violation.
I have seen women talk to each other about how hot another woman’s body is.
Guys, we don’t do that, because we don’t care about what another guy looks like.
You see women hug each other and hold each other’s hands for extended periods of time.
Guy’s give handshakes and bro hugs.
So it was always there for Harley and Ivy.

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With all due respect, I disagree. I found Harley’s appearance in Suicide Squad to be very tied to the Joker, with some… compromising shots focusing more on her sex appeal. However, in Birds of Prey, they make it a point to note that Harley has a PhD and is actually very good at reading people. Her being able to hold her own without her ties to the Joker scaring anyone away is also a major aspect of the movie, so I don’t really get where you’re coming from? Feel free to respond, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.

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Cool! We can agree that we disagree and agree to some point. As I agree that the movie WAS intended to display that Harley could hold her own without the Joker. I agree that she CAN hold her own without the Joker. I disagree that the movie displayed Harley in as being able to read people well as it did TRY to do that but contradicted itself, with scenes like the landlord selling her out, or that the Guns would be in a old Joker hideout. She is smarter than that, which is why she did have the small stash in the crate. Keep in mind Harley is a 4th wall breaking character type, so she knows that we exist and interacts with us, like Deadpool.

As far as the idea of cutting the line between Harley and Joker that is NOT possible. Those are her roots, remember Harley is different in many ways from other characters as she was not in the comics originally. She was born out of the cartoon an transferred to comic. Why is this of any importance? Backstory, backstory, backstory. If you see her as weak minded then she would have never been allowed access to a Arkham repeat offender like the Joker. But because she was you have to assume she had a strong will and not easily influenced.
As for her fan service of sexy. She as to do this, because it is a WEAPON. Harley is a regular woman fighting men so the sexy is to throw her enemies off balance. Catwoman does the same thing.
Now I have said all of this just to go back to the point that in Suicide Squad she came across as a more CAPABLE character then she did in BOP, were you get scenes like the bending down at just the right minute to miss being shot by Huntress. Who was not even aiming at Harley to start with, it the Mr. Magoo or Pink Panther dumb luck thing.
I mean share your thoughts. I am clearly sharing mine and have gotten way to deep into this, can someone please give me a ladder to climb out of this?:rofl::grin::joy:

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Sorry about that, I really love the movie. If you don’t want to respond to this, you don’t have to. By all means, keep your own opinions, I don’t mean to invalidate them. I’ve included my thoughts below, if you want to take a look. It ended up way longer than intended, however, and I’m a debate kid, so I take apart your argument the way I would in a debate, so feel free to disregard it.

BOP Harley Thoughts

Harley, by nature, is a trusting character. That is largely how she became infatuated with the Joker, after all—she trusted in a nonexistent better and more loving nature of his. When I say she shows competence in reading people, I don’t mean that she can instantly psychoanalyze everyone and predict their future actions. I mean that she is able to manipulate people to better suit her goals when the situation calls for it (see: convincing Black Mask not to kill her, rallying up the other women to fight against Black Mask and his goons) and does display psychological knowledge (the one that comes to mind right now is, “Revenge rarely brings the catharsis we hope for”), but like any well-rounded character, she does have weaknesses. She trusts her landlord, and she does have reason to believe there could be guns in the old Joker hideout—she’s a strong character, but strong doesn’t mean infallible.

This doesn’t really offer anything in the way of your argument, as well as it not really showing up in the movie? The narration is an often-used technique intended to tell a character’s inner thoughts, and I enjoy this movie’s use of it more than I thought I would, due to the narration serving to show Harley’s… chaotic mindscape. Other than that, I don’t really see how this fits with the rest of your argument.

First, I never implied I saw Harley as weak-minded, especially not in my previous post. Despite her flaws, she is an intelligent and formidable character. Second, I assume this is a reply to me saying “Her being able to hold her own without her ties to the Joker scaring anyone away is a major aspect of the movie” or just a general gripe about the movie. The movie doesn’t erase the Joker from her backstory, far from it. Rather, it lets her grow into more than just Joker’s girl, Joker’s sidekick, or anything of the sort. I’m of the firm belief that like anyone who goes through abuse, Harley should be allowed to become more than that, as well as it being good character growth. You said it yourself, Harley has a strong will and she’s smart, so to keep her tied to the Joker beyond the backstory is limiting towards the character and and her arc. In the case you were responding to me, I agree that no one would quite forget in-universe Harley’s connection to the Joker, but it’s because she doesn’t have his “protection” anymore that they’re all after her.

This is honestly the thing I’m having the hardest time with. Yes, women in FICTION tend to use their appearance to their advantage, but that’s due to sexist stereotypes of a womanly talent being seduction, and the general view of society that a woman’s appearance is one of the most important things about her, so obviously it’s one of the weapons in her repertoire. Additionally, due to comics being a male-dominated industry, women are often written as sexy because that’s what the writer wants out of his women. There may be a precedent for Harley doing this (though mostly, in Suicide Squad, she didn’t have to. I haven’t watched that god-awful movie in a while, but the shots where they focused on Harley’s assets weren’t even combat situations), but it’s one of things I would definitely scrap, as it doesn’t do anything for the character and instead serves to please men. Also, even as a non-powered woman, Harley has been proven to be able to hold her own in a fight and shouldn’t need to use her “womanly wiles” or whatever nonsense. More on that in the next point.

I see your dumb luck point, but I feel like that has more to do with the tone of the movie. Suicide Squad takes itself a lot more seriously than BOP, which presents itself as more of a fun romp and a lighthearted comedic action flick. Obviously, you’re going to get more moments for comedy in BOP, and that includes stuff like that. Besides, BOP has many action sequences that Harley is apart of, and she can clearly hold her own in a fight. Honestly, BOP had some of the best action sequences I’ve seen in a while, which was really fun to watch. Despite the messes Harley gets herself into, she’s also shown as being able to get herself out of them, and I’ve already spoken about her psychological acuity. Simply put, I disagree and think BOP presents Harley as very capable.

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In the grand scheme of things we all have our opinions that mean Nothing. We want Harley to be a Symbol for whatever WE want, well it’s up to DC to use/write her how they see fit. At first she was a Punching Bag for the Joker, then fast forward she leaves him and walah she’s her own Independent woman.

People didn’t say anything about her then, why start now? Cause you’re “woke?”

Face it, 90% of Women in DC will be “attractive” superheros/villains, it makes us like them more, it’s shallow I know, but so is the world.

Different teams write different stuff. Suicide Squad as great as it was, was flawwed, BOP was DC’s Deadpool. Because they have too. After all the other failed attempts because “marvel is so much better at live action!” what works? Being different from what DC is, Having too much comedy, not being serious all the time, and making kids drag their parents to ANOTHER Super Movie. Enter Deadpool. And that’s how BOP was written because it worked.

So yeah, Harley changes and isnt’t to everyone’s taste everytime, but what are we gonna do about it? We aren’t the bossez of DC. It ebbs and flows.

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First of all I do not see this as a debate, but a conversation. Second, I LOVE this type of back and forth as I see it as constructive, and fun. I personally enjoy your debate style. The third thing @Carbon is 100% correct, but I say to @Carbon we are just having fun, expressing our views on this issue and “Thank you!” for giving me the ladder I requested. @crystalinastar back to you, I want you to know you have me over a barrel here as I really enjoy your points and want to continue this, as I feel you to are enjoying our conversation as well. I want out so badly, but you have made points that I just have to reply too. I want to start with your last point first as to me it is the basis of your point of view, and a darn good one I might add.

I completely overlooked this point. BOP is to be taken more like a comedy then SS. To me that one point completely supports your opinion of Harley in BOP. Moving on…

So this is not non-sense. This is “art of War” 101, use everything to your advantage. Look Batman has mastered like 121 forms of Martial Arts, do you think Harley has mastered that many forms of hand to hand combat. However, we have seen her hold her own in fights with both Batman and Nightwing (REALLY). As for the combat scenes in BOP they were all pretty good I have to admit, but you have to admit they all did have a few hiccups in them, that should have been worked out. Overall, no true complaints to them.

I totally disagree. I would think as her job she would be psychoanalyzing people regularly as it would be natural. I mean I am a IT guy, so everytime I see someones PC setup I automatically start analyzing it. I also don’t see her as a naturally trusting person. Based on her back story.

I want to go over the 4th wall thing. I will simply say there is a difference between 4th walling and character narration.

@crystalinastar I know you are going to pull me in some more. I am looking forward to it.

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