I blame it on inconsistency in the writing/creative department! He’s always Been A SOLID A-B Player and they’ve just treated him like a C player as of late
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While not as reprehensible as the creative hacks taken against Wally West over the last decade, DC’s treatment of Dick Grayson in recent years has also been horrible. I want a series–call it Titans if you must–that restores Wally, Dick, Donna, Garth and Roy to their former iconic glory.
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My fortune teller says that will change in a few months. They will then treat him like an F player. A year after that like a G-H player.
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Z Player Incoming
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Wellllll let’s Freakin Hope Not!
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True Wally/Kyle had it pretty rough! Lol … let’s hope they have learned a lil something and can course correct SOON!
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Aaaannddd for me even if just for sentimental value I’d be OK if they found a way to RESTORE all of them In a new TITANS title! Wolfman/Perez era and a few year’s later were among my Favorites for these characters
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Yeah they job him out to everybody now. It’s the reason I’ve grown to despise Batman, Damian, and DC creative. I hate seeing a character consistently described as being “his own hero” constantly used as a plot device for the cape and cowl. DC has just lost touch with their characters in recent years. If it’s not Batman and Robin or some “edgy” type character they just don’t know how to ■■■■■■■ write anymore.
Dick deserves so much more but will honestly never get it until he is removed from the Batman umbrella of books and put in his own lane with Titans.
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Don’t even get me started on that god awful titans series
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YES PLEASE!!! What DC has done to those characters is criminal.
My DC boycott ends today!!
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I don’t mind seeing my heroes get beat down. I won’t say I like all the ways they do it, but I don’t what my favorite characters to be perfect people who know how to solve every problem. It’s actually really comforting to know that these incredibly powerful individuals can be victims as well. What makes them heroes (in my eyes) is not that they solve every problem, are perfect individuals, or never get beat up. It’s that they do what they do DESPITE how many times they get knocked down. Seeing Dick continue to deal with mental health issues and physical beat downs but still getting back up makes him more relatable and FAR stronger to me.
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I completely agree that I don’t like my characters to perfect or invincible and Dick is all about getting back up (I.E. DCUO), but DC has gone WAY overboard with him, I mean look at most recent stuff if you need an example he was shot in the head, practically written out of his own title for over a year, became a Talon, now became Joker’s “son”. These are also some of the exact reasons I can’t stand Batman and Damian.
I don’t know, I kind of like all this new stuff to be honest. It’s new, it’s different, it’s refreshing. I can only watch Dick jump across buildings and catching killers/maniacs for so long. It’s been interesting to see the kind of wild new path he’s going down. I think it’s adding some new interesting stuff to his character that I’m really excited to see how he deals with it. I know they kind of lean on the Batman trauma a lot for him, but are some new manifestations of this trauma and the affects of Bruce’s decisions. I mean, how will Dick cope in the end. I don’t know. I get it’s all up to personal preferences, but all the stuff you seem to not like is what I’ve really enjoying recently haha.
See, I would agree if by doing it they used it to highlighted Dick’s inherent nature, personality, etc. y’know - what makes the character who he is by like doing the “shadow memory” thing or whatever they called it when he randomly remembered how to fight but no. They attempted to completely change him and who he is and when that didn’t work they gave back just enough memories to make him feel a little more familiar to the audience but just enough that they could still exploit him.
Before that they tried to kill him in Forever Evil and that didn’t go over well so they didn’t do that. Snyder killed him off in the DCEU before even having him on screen. They use him a damsel in the animated movies. They tried killing him in Infinite Crisis to which again fans saved him. He’s been canonically raped 3 times to which everyone hated that so they just tied it up and forgot about it. In the aftermath one of those incidents they even made him a drunk.
DC has a history of doing whatever they can to destroy and/or get rid of this character and he’s only hung on by these threads because of loyal fans.
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I would argue that “loyal fans” prevent Dick from growing or changing because we far too often hold onto the past. Typically these dedicated fans have a singular vision of what a character is like which leads to the writers not being able to change up, develop, or grow characters in a natural way. I think Dick is in a very similar situation as Luke Skywalker in the recent Star Wars films. We saw Rian Johnson come in and make Luke damaged and more developed as a character in the Last Jedi, only to have “loyal fans” get upset and say they’re ruining the character because he’s not the way THEY want him or remember him. This led to a messy “recovery” and change in the Rise of Skywalker. (I’m not trying to change this to a Star Wars conversation, so feel free to respond to my analysis of Luke in my dms lol.) Dick is in a similar place I think. This isn’t just with Dick, but I think the most dedicated fans of a character all also the downfall of them.
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I’m all for characters growing naturally! In fact, I preach it especially with characters like Batman who never experiences any character development or shows emotion. He’s just constantly stale and blank. And I totally get where you’re coming from with super fans not giving the characters and writers room. But I also have to say that, it’s not “growing naturally” by stripping everything from the character. Growing naturally would’ve been as I said having the… MUSCLE MEMORY that’s what it was come in flashes while highlighting who he is while rebuilding his life. Then as the memories resurface slowly, as you said finding out how Dick copes with the “Batman trauma” (which I also agree they rely too heavily on in the first place) while making it in line with those inherent natures. Making new, better decisions, maturing, learning from mistakes, etc. that’s growth and I’m sorry I just don’t see any of that happening here - at least not with this specific story we’re talking about.
Disclaimer: Not saying you’re wrong. I’m just explaining why I don’t understand your logic.
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I’m saying the reason we aren’t seeing the natural growth both of us seem to want is linked to the fact that loyal fans tend to create a really fragile and difficult back and forth between writers and fans and DC. To kind of go back to my Star Wars example, we saw the beginning of a natural development be shaken and destroyed in the next film because of the company overall reacting to “super fans” and mess up what was being built. So I think Dick is in a similar situation. DC may be pushing for one thing as a reaction to fans which makes it difficult for writers to tell the narratives they want to tell in a natural way. It’s this constant push and pull form of tug of war between fans, writers, and the company that leads to a messy development of characters. Does that clear up my logic at all?
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Absolutely! and I agree. Some fans need to fall back. But is to fair to add that certain creators need to make better decisions??? Which I will say seems likely at this point since Didio is no longer in the driver seat (no longer have his low opinions of the character influencing creative) cuz I will admit, form what I’ve heard looks like DC is taking their time cuz they wanna do it right even using Titans to help bring Dick back. Or maybe I should rephrase that and ask is it fair to say that everyone including creative needs to leave their opinions of characters at the door and just take what they have to offer and create great stories?
I think the involvement of the company should kind of fall on picking artists/writers they like and trust and then letting them run free in the universe. And then checking in to make sure we dont have confusion and conflicts with other series. I dont want them or fans to dictate where the story goes. Instead, let a bunch of different artists with different styles and beliefs come in and build the story they want to tell. Dont interfere with the development or structure. Basically dont micromanage. And then fans in general need to learn to let go a bit and just enjoy the ride. Give artists a chance and dont rush them through the process. I think also Dick is unfortunately also heavily affected by Batman superman which can be the most difficult group to work with.