DC vs Marvel

First: I totally agree with @c-m-woodworks.91222 regarding being more loyal to creators that companies.

Second: In my opinion Marvel changed the superhero comics world by adding more realistic characterization that is the basis for today’s comics. It is hard to pinpoint specific “groundbreaking events” like Watchmen or All-Star Superman as the “groundbreaking events” took place in “normal continuity” like Batman: Year One in Batman 404-407. Also, “groundbreaking” can be interpreted in different ways.

Black Panther

First Black (African not American) Superhero Fantastic Four 52 1966

First Black member of a major superhero team, The Avengers Avengers 52 1968

Spider-Man

First Anti-drug Story (printed without the Comics Code Authority Seal) Amazing Spider-Man 96-98 1970 predating GL/GA 85-86 1971

From the article above:

DC Comics was actually more pissed than anyone else, as Carmine Infantino (DC’s Executive Editor) was waiting for the new Code to go into effect so that DC could do their OWN anti-drugs story, and they were irked that Marvel just went out and did theirs without Code approval. DC’s came out later in 1971, with Green Arrow dealing with his sidekick, Speedy, becoming addicted to heroin…

Iron Man

Demon in a Bottle Saga a story of Alcoholism Iron Man 120-128 1979

Everything Else - Sturgeon’s Law

”90% of Everything is Crap” - Theodore Sturgeon

What are the great stories/runs that are the 10% that you love? Keeping with Marvel by creators:

Fantastic Four - There are four great runs over their 60 year history and even those have clunker issues/arcs along the way. Early FF is truly a slog to read through but gets great about 30 issues in.

Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
John Byrne
Mark Waid & Mike Wieringo
Johnathon Hickman & Company

Was all of Batman’s 82 year history truly great? Not really. Were there great creators like Finger, O’Neil, Adams, Aparo, Miller, and others who contributed great ideas and stories? For sure! Are there modern masters that people love or despise? Sure! Scott Snyder or Tom King? I think they both did good and not so good work with the Dark Knight and I’m sure there are fans who love them and hate them.

Creators Forever!

Companies, not so much. :grinning:

4 Likes

Sorry about that. Wasn’t expecting it to blow up like it did

2 Likes

Eh I like both for different reasons. Both have many stellar characters and history. Marvel has been exceedingly better at live action adaptions while DC has consistently been better with animation (considering Marvel doesn’t have an animation department). Marvel understands their characters and has done a relatively good job at making new stories while staying true to their characters whereas DC seems to dislike any character that isn’t Batman or the trinity but mostly Batman and is always trying to change them, make them dArK, gRiTtY, and eDgEy :roll_eyes::roll_eyes::roll_eyes::roll_eyes::roll_eyes: instead of portraying them truthfully. But hey, it’s the Nolan effect - Batman sells so let’s make every character like Batman and push Batman to the extreme to contrast them.

In laments terms if we’re talking about as a company, management, editorial, etc. Marvel wins hands down. But if we’re talking characters DC hangs onto the most iconic ones by it’s fingertips strictly because of Batman. It’s sad really.

In truth the only things DC had that Marvel didn’t was that their universe is centered around both legacy and the Multiverse (which they seemed to have forgotten as they always ■■■■ it up, but that’s neither here nor there even though it really is here isn’t it) and Marvel is just now starting to get into that stuff both in comics and film. On top of being inclusive and diverse while DC still struggles with it as they can’t find the time to give a ■■■■ or space to utilize the diverse characters they have before drastically changing other characters as a PR stunt to save their asses, if Marvel can successfully pull off the Multiverse and legacy I think there’s gonna be a new sheriff in town. DC has been chasing this tail for awhile and they need to do better. FAST. It’s time for DC to step up or step out of the way cuz they’ve been falling slowly since 2011 with New 52 and nothing has really changed. Small temporary “fixes” that don’t last cuz they only service them at the short term moment and when none of it no longer serves them at that moment they relaunch once again with more band aids to their problems.

We’ve had a relaunch just about every 5 years now and it looks like the movies and animation is headed into the same direction. Though the recent animated movies that could POSSIBLY (not confirmed yet) be a new universe: Man of Tomorrow, Justice Society WW2, and Long Halloween have all been really good. Maybe just MAYBE they’ll do something right this time if they pull their heads out of their asses and stop focusing on all these spin off, what if, alternate timeline, etc BS and actually confirm and build the universe, but sadly their attention spans seems to be that of an attention seeking child longing to be an adult. Where on the other side we’ve had constant world building for over 10 years that still continues. And here’s DC frantically waving it’s arms desperately crying out for attention like “Hey over here look at me I’m all dark, mysterious, and jaded like a grown up!” Like a pick me head ass lil ■■■■■ :joy::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: So I guess the real question is do you prefer actual storytelling and characterization or plot points for shock value?

… Wow I really sat down and wrote a whole ass essay huh? Damn I’m so harsh I could be a critic :thinking::thinking: Oh well I SAID WHAT I SAID

3 Likes

I was talking about comics that are critically acclaimed and praised by almost everybody in the fandom. Comics that you would find in almost anybody’s top 10 list. Morrison’s doom patrol, Hellblazer dangerous habitats, dark knight returns, Superman red son, justice league new frontier, Gotham Central, etc. I hardly ever see any marvel comics mentioned in those top 10 lists. It’s almost always exclusively dominated by DC.

3 Likes

I’m sorry @raider_dave66 I got way too carried away. This response is more my OCD reaction to your well made points than me arguing with you. I hope you can take all this in stride.

You are correct that those are some of the best of the best. I would argue that they all are creator driven using DC IP and somewhat outside of the main DC Universe.

Morrison’s Doom Patrol started as DC but was moved to Vertigo an imprint aimed at an adult audience.

Hellblazer and Swamp Thing made the same trip from DC to Vertigo as did Sandman.

Dark Knight Returns was a prestige limited four issue event outside of the normal DCU and was a Frank Miller driven project. He was recruited after his fantastic run on Daredevil which revived and reshaped that character to this day.

Superman Red Son was another Morrison project that was a three issue Elseworlds series. Kingdom Come was Mark Waid and Alex Ross. Again, both projects were creator driven, outside the normal DCU, and limited series. Add in All-Star Superman.

Justice League: The New Frontier was a limited series by Darwyn Cooke, so another creator project.

Gotham Central was an actual ongoing DC series by Ed Brubaker, Greg Rucka, and Michael Lark. It was set adjacent to the DCU focusing on the cops dealing with Gotham crime away from the Batman focus. It didn’t make the jump to Vertigo, but only lasted 40 issues. The Killing Joke and Batman: Year One were both produced in the main DCU and we’re not miniseries.

Kudos to DC for allowing creators to produce much more personal introspective stories using their IP.

Marvel has taken a different route with their IP. They also have a different trade strategy focusing on Omnibuses of longer running series rather than Absolutes of miniseries.

Captain America by Brubaker, Lark, Perkins, et al was a critical and commercial success that was presented in five omnibuses. The series took place in normal MCU continuity. Creator driven Marvel IP.

Iron Fist by Brubaker and Fraction was a critically acclaimed series that was collected in a single omnibus. Creator driven Marvel IP.

Frank Miller’s Daredevil (2 omnibuses) and Elektra. Creator driven Marvel IP (and he created Elektra).

Brubaker, Lark, Bendis, Maleev, et al Daredevil (4 omnibuses). Creator driven Marvel IP.

Iron Man by Matt Fraction and Salvador Larocca (2 omnibuses and multiple hardcovers).

Avengers by Kurt Busiak and George Perez (2 omnibuses)

Avengers by Jonathan Hickman(2 omnibuses)

Fantastic Four by Byrne (2 omnibuses). Fantastic Four by Hickman (2 omnibuses). Fantastic Four by Waid & Wieringo (1 omnibus).

X-Men by Morrison (1 omnibus). X-Men by Claremont, Cockrum, Byrne, JR JR, Jim Lee, et al (6-8 omnibuses, heck Claremont wrote X-Men for 20 years).

TL;DR I love all kinds of comics and I follow Creators more than Companies. DC’s greatest stories are creator driven as are Marvel’s.

My Library

Top Shelf
Howard Chaykin, Frank Miller, Matt Fraction, BTAS, Gotham Central, Jim Aparo, Snyder & Capullo Batman, Dave Sim Cerebus

Middle Shelf
George Perez, Jack Kirby, Mike Grell, John Byrne, Neal Adams

Bottom Shelf
All Marvel Omnibuses arranged by Creator and Color. Matching trade dress is so nice!

3 Likes

Mark Millar*

4 Likes

I get them confused. :rofl:

image

3 Likes

Outstanding! I couldn’t agree more @EverAJ!

3 Likes

I’m :100: percent with you. All I was saying was that DC’s comics are constantly mentioned in people’s top 10
Whether they’re within continuity or not is besides the point.

3 Likes

Thank you. I’m a scathing critic :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

3 Likes

Don’t know if this fits here but which Marvel What If world vs DC Elseworld fight would you like to see?

4 Likes

I haven’t seen enough of the series to know what all they’ve done, but I remember a Marvel What If comic where the Venom symbiote attached itself to Thor.

Give me a comic where Calvin Ellis saves him

3 Likes

This. This right here is why I will always ultimately favor DC over Marvel. The fact that you can even find 10 characters to make up a list like this pretty much says it all. I don’t like a single one of these characters. (No, not even Th… at one in the middle.) Never have. Never will. And these are some of Marvel’s most popular characters!

I find that too much of Marvel’s publishing output emphasizes its characters’ brutality, rather than their humanity, whereas the opposite tends to be true for DC. Ironic that I find the supposedly “god-like” DC characters to be much more warm, empathetic, and human, than the “world outside your window” crew over at the Marvelous Competition. I’ve long sought a way to put my feelings on this topic into words, but this article that was just published today has finally done a good job of crystalizing them for me.

P.S. Don’t get me wrong. I do read and like a lot of Marvel. But the Marvel that I enjoy tends to be the more obscure and less popular characters and teams.

P.P.S. When I read Marvel comics, I feel like I’m taking a vacation in the Marvel Universe, a stranger in a strange land. But when I go back to DC, I always feel like I’m coming home. :hugs:

2 Likes

DC all day

2 Likes

I like both. I like street level heros with an edge best and DC probably had more of those but Marvel has some pretty good quality ones. Depends on my mood which one I like more.

(I would like to again deny the accusations that I am involved with a secret Marvel thread that is said to accept any member who expresses interest. To the best of my knowledge, no such thread exists, right @Kelex ?)

2 Likes

:crystal_ball: Better not tell you now

3 Likes

Take your time.

Is it true that I am not involved with such a hypothetical thread?

2 Likes

:crystal_ball: You may rely on it

3 Likes

There you have it.

Thanks Kelex, your secret crush on H.E.R.B.I.E. remains safe.

3 Likes

Hello! I am Kelex. I can assist you with matters like community features and more. To find out everything I can do, say @kelex display help.

3 Likes