@Jay_Kay I really liked Arnold Wesker in âThe Batmanâ animated series. I do prefer Scarface to Ferdie, but if weâre just going by creep factor, Shauna and Ferdie have that down pat for me.
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Okay, so I finished up 19-24, and itâs interesting looking at this as a Pride Book Club recommendation, because really the only kind of LGBT/Pride theme in it is in #19, when Alysia comes out of the closet to Babs. Everything else is really more of a story about Barbara and her relationship deteriorating with her father after she believes she killed her brother to save her mother.
(Fun fact for those who donât know â James Jr. doesnât die in that issue, but rather is picked up and is used as part of the Suicide Squad. Jim doesnât find out about his son being alive until Batman Eternal when he becomes James Jr.'s bunkmate inâŚI think it was either Arkham or Blackgate, I donât remember which.)
Itâs funny, if one were to skip #19, one would probably not realize this about Barbaraâs girlfriend â which is sort of progressive in itâs own way. For a hot second inâŚI want to say #23, when theyâre shopping together, part of me wondered if the guys harassing them in the mall was going to bust out the ârhymes-with-fannyâ slur when theyâre being rebuked, but I should have realized our girl Gail wouldnât stoop so low.
So Iâll probably read #45 today and do the questions then. It should be interesting going from Gailâs darker, personal story into the markedly more bright and shiny Burnside era!
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@Jay_Kay I think this arc is a great example of queer acceptance, and for a lack of a better word, ânormalizationâ. Like you said, other than her coming out, thereâs not really all that much here in terms of LGBTQ themes as such, but just the fact that Babs treats Alysia as another girl (because she is) is the point. And of course Barbara would, because sheâs a hero and has empathy. But this is a major mainstream comic book and this is a huge thing for representation.
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Yeah, she definitely works as a character who Barbara can briefly forget all the horrible things going on with her as Batgirl and just be a normal girl, helping with her with dates and shopping sprees.
Speaking of empathyâŚthat whole sequence of Batgirl in Ventriloquistâs childhood homeâŚman, thatâs messed up. Like I said, I kind of prefer Wesker, but this version is definitely a good, creepy villain that really does test Barbara specifically as a hero.
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I completely understand what youâre saying about issues #19-24 not really featuring an LGBT story.
A lot of the time LGBT+ characters are put into the role of best friend and left there. Thatâs an unfortunate trope and one that is a little present in Alysiaâs depiction here, but I do think her story within these issues was still handled well. Alysia isnât depicted as perfect here, she has her flaws as well as fears. We see her bring up her ex without thinking about how James, Jr. is Barbaraâs brother that âdiedâ. We also get to see her being afraid in the mall scene when those men are following them. Itâs a fear that many, if not all, women are familiar with. On top of that, trans women also experience a lot of violence against them, so there is an added layer to that interaction. She seems like a real person and not so much just the best friend trope.
This arc features Barbara, McKenna, Knightfall, Shauna, Mrs. Gutierrez, and Alysia. Like Mae said, Alysiaâs story is not treated as different. Her story is treated as another part of the narrative that fits in seamlessly as well as serves a purpose to the overall narrative being told. Alysia isnât just her gender identity. What I do like about this selection that Mae helped me pick is that it is book ended, in a way, by the LGBT+ stories of her coming out and her wedding, but at the center itâs just Alysia in her everyday life. She likes shopping, hanging out with her friend, taking care of her friend, going on dates, and just living her best life. We also get to see with her wedding that sheâs part of the LGBT+ community as a bi woman. I was able to appreciate that more on the reread for this club as the first time I read this book, I was mostly focused on Barbara and her journey.
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@Mae Thatâs another factor I hadnât considered. This story was told in continuity and in a high profile book. This story is told in a book headlined by one of the BatFam and thatâs a big deal just in itself.
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@ Jay_Kay This depiction of the Ventriloquist is quite disturbing. Shaunaâs alter-ego being male is something we also donât really see. Wesker and Scarface were both male, so it added something kind of fun to this version of the Ventriloquist. Plus, Ferdie is just extremely creepy. Shauna being able to puppet her parents like that⌠Chills.
Yeah, when DC Daily did its report on LGBT characters in DC, they talked about Alysia being the first trans character in a mainstream comic (something Iâm not fully sure of, because I think there was also some stuff in Legion of Superheroes that could count).
And the funny thing is, this actually isnât the first time the Ventriloquist has been revamped like this â during his run on Detective Comics, Paul Dini introduced Payton Riley, a cold of the mob who uses Scarface as revenge against the mob of Gotham.
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Read through 45 andâŚfirst off, I forgot that Barbara dated Luke Fox for a hot minute.
Second, did anyone else think Dick came off as a colossal d-bag in this issue? I thought when he showed up and asked her to come with him that he needed her help for a mission or something, but no, he wasted so much time, had her chase him across the city, knowing that her best friendâs wedding is going on right then, andâŚfor what? To say heâll always care? If I were in Babâs position, I would tell him to stick that sentiment up his firm, muscular ass.
Also, something I was thinking of â with Alysa and Jo, itâs been a while since I read this era, but did we see them get together? I mean, the whole moment is very sweet, but I remember this wedding kind of coming out of nowhere.
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@Jay_Kay I didnât know about that Ventriloquist. She does look like a character that could have been in the animated shows he did though. Thatâs pretty cool to use Scarface against the mod when he was previously used for them.
I donât know if we ever saw Alysia and Jo get together, but they actually started out in Gailâs run, I believe. They were both activists together. I think the Burnside team did what they could, but Gail hadnât really set a strong enough foundation with those two.
I find it fitting that today is the actual 50th anniversary of Stonewall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots
According to some, it was all started by a trans woman and here we are fifty years later talking about another trans woman whoâs a kind of a trailblazer in her own right. The coming out scene in issue #19 is admittedly brief but itâs a Batgirl book, not an Alysia book (which would be awesome, am I right?) so instead we focus on Barbaraâs internal thoughts. Before theyâre interrupted and hugging, with Alysia in tears, I was feeling feels myself. It was beautiful. So simple and quick, yet powerful. Barbara says only a few words (âBabsâ) and expresses her love for her friend and nothing else needs to be said.
My favorite scene with these two was actually in #22 and the snicker-doodles. First of all, yum! Second of all, Barbara is super cute when Ricky appears. And that panel when she slams the door on him, then opens it slightly, snaps the flowers from his hand and says âTheyâre lovely. Wait here.â had me laughing out loud. This was a great and light moment after the craziness with Shaunaâs parents and that whole thing. After that, as Babs is running around getting ready for her date (âMy hair is poisonâ⌠I nearly died!), Alysia is teasing her lovingly a little, and I found that adorable, and just further insight into their friendship. Then bam! Barbara is outside the apartment looking like a star. The whole scene was hilarious, I loved it.
Barbara and Alysia shopping in #23 was a great scene for a lot of reasons. You see more of their playful banter (âShoes!â - âWe *did * shoes!â - âWe didnât do these shoes!â) and then those dudes⌠I get the feeling Gail mightâve been hinting here that maybe Alysia has had a transphobic/homophobic attack in her past (the panic in her voice, Babs thinks). Which just makes me care about her even more. I think thatâs one of the biggest things that resonated with me most about Alysiaâs character. Then Barbara turning the tables on those guys was awesome!
Also, if I could post an image, but one of my favorite panels has to be the one when Barbara falls asleep on the couch and Alysia covers her up and sits next to her with their kitty nestled in her feet. That was too adorable.
As far as the wedding in #45, all I can say is that Alysia in that dress looked stunning and beautiful and it just makes me sad that apart from some appearances in the Bombshells comics, we havenât seen Alysia again yet unless I missed it⌠I really wish she would become a larger part of the DC universe. Hopefully sheâll come back into comics and maybe even the movies of TV shows. I could see her showing up in the rumored Batgirl movie. Maybe they could cast Ivory Aquino to play her, I think she looks the part. Sheâs trans and sheâs Asian (though from the Philippines, not Singapore): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE3WRQq0blQ
Side-note: Those Channel 52 bits at the end of these issues are awesome. Ambush Bug dressed as Power Girl (with the conspicuous absence of cleavage) was pure gold.
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Iâm pretty sure she has appeared in the Rebirth run â sadly, the downside of side characters who donât know the secret identity is that they typically donât get as much panel time.
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Itâs pretty awesome that on the 50th anniversary of Stonewall, we get to have a conversation about trans and LGBT+ characters in comics. Alysia is a great character with a lot of potential. I fear that a lot of comic book writers donât have an interest in writing married characters. How do you think they could integrate her into the story again? I feel like the only real option would be to have her become a vigilante or some type of hero. As an activist she could run into other characters like Poison Ivy that also care about other causes. Maybe she could run for office in Gotham or something.
The scene in the mall with the guys that were harassing Babs and Alysia also gave me that feeling, Mae. I honestly wish Gail hadnât been juggling so many characters because I did feel some of them suffered from being underdeveloped. She had a full cast of villains and the Gordon family, as well as Rickyâs family and Alysia. Maybe if she would have cut down the cast we could have spent more time getting Alysiaâs perspective on things that were happening. The Burnside run had just as many characters, but I felt they were more fleshed out.
I loved seeing Alysia in the Burnside issue. Her wedding dress was gorgeous. The Burnside team was always spot on with the great clothing and hairstyles. The art was consistently good. The art in Gailâs book had some great moments. Other times, I felt like the faces looked strange. Almost like caricatures youâd get done on Santa Monica Pier.
Those Channel 52 bits were hilarious.
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@Jay_Kay Yup. Frankie finding out about Batgirl really helped put Frankie front and center in the Burnside book. Thatâs why I would have liked for Barbara to have told Alysia about Batgirl when they were telling each other their secrets. Alysia also doesnât have martial arts skills, hacking abilities, magic, etc., so coming up with reasons for her to be in the story when sheâs no longer Barbaraâs roommate becomes harder.
Iâm not up on Rebirth and Batgirlâs currents shenanigans, not yet, so if Alysia does make an appearance, thatâs great! Looking forward to that. @nu52, I really like the idea of her maybe running for some kind of office in Gotham. Or getting into another type of prominent position in the city maybe. I love costumed superheroes, but not every character needs a secret identity. As we were discussing last week with Gotham Central, maybe there could be a new GCPD series and maybe sheâd work with the police or even be on the force. Just a thoughtâŚ
Obviously nobody knows what this rumored Batgirl movie is supposed to be, but I hope they take some inspiration from this whole New 52 run of Batgirl. Iâm sure weâd all love to see it regardless of what it would be, but if Alysia could be in it once again as Barbaraâs bestie, that would be so wonderful.
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Oh, Alysia as a cop could be interesting. It would still keep her in Barbaraâs life because sheâd be working with Jim Gordon. She could also eventually run for office after that. I agree that not every character needs to be a superhero/vigilante. Itâd be fun to see Alysia interact with more of Gothamâs cast.
Iâm also not caught up on Rebirth. Once all the comics hit DC Universe, Iâve been hooked and have stayed here for most of my comic reading. I really have no idea what a Batgirl movie would look like since we barely even know what theyâre doing with Batman. Iâm all for it having Alysia.
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Also, @Jay_Kay, I didnât feel like Dick was being a d-bag at all. He seemed lonely and sad. I felt like he was trying to reach out to his old friend. Maybe itâs my DickBabs colored glasses, but I loved their scenes together.
They have to at least tease Barbara in the upcoming Birds of Prey movie. They must, right? It seems the Batman movies will be prequels to our current cinematic universe, from what Iâm gathering, and introduce a lot of Gotham characters that can then be explored further in other movies. So having Birds of Prey or a Batgirl movie before all that is fine by me. Did you see that short interview with Ivory Aquino I linked to earlier? I think she even looks a bit like Alysia! I have no idea what a Batgirl movie could be either, and right now Iâm torn on which costume I want to see. Purple and yellow? Black and gold? I think black and gold⌠
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Just watched the interview with Ivory Aquino and she seems like a great person, but honestly doesnât seem like Alysia to me. Iâve never seen her act though so she could probably pull of the role.
I would think theyâd bring up Barbara in the BoP movie, especially with Cass Cain being featured in the movie. We have such little information about what theyâre doing with Batman that I donât know how tied to that story the rest of the BatFam will be. I could see Batgirl showing up in a full black costume with gold like the video games or something gray. I canât really see them going with yellow or purple unless they make her a lot younger. I do like her newer Rebirth costume.
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