To me it’s no contest, it’s Ra’s. Period, full stop.
Denny brought us the modern Batman (sorry Frank Miller, but it’s the truth) by going back to his roots as the world’s greatest detective. As Denny has said, he needed his Moiriarty figure, just as Holmes did. Ra’s is that character. The missing villain Batman need in his rouges gallery.
In the years following Denny, others have made Talia a stronger character, but looking at this relative to Denny, it’s is Ra’s all the way.
That’s a pretty good distinction, based on Denny it’s clearly Ra’s. But, as I’ve done in the previous polls, once the question is asked the voters get to interpret it the way they want. I went Talia based on entire history. As for O’Neil being responsible for returning Batman to his roots, Miller isn’t even in the conversation. But, as I contend in the discussion thread if you look at Robbins, Wein, Wolfman and what they were writing at the same time or even slightly before O’Neil I think it is more a team effort than is generally portrayed.
Agreed regarding the question on the nature of the question, no question. If we were just looking at O’Neal, I don’t think there’s any doubt that Ra’s matters far more, but my vote was also based on Batman history as a whole.
Certainly there is a slew of elements that went into Batman’s recreation in the Bronze Age.
I think for me Denny really codified the elements of the character. The one person I would really like to see a doco on is Julie Schwartz. He was very influential and as with most editors, they generally aren’t given the credit they deserve.
Also when Neal came on board his style was really based on a Renaissance aesthetic so the anatomy and how the cape moved really grounded the character in a much more real tone.
Also, Denny gave us “The Joker’s 5 way revenge” which is also the modern creation of the Joker. So he was important in taking the primary Batman antagonist in one psychological area (order vs chaos) and grounding that character into that world and then the creation of Ras. (Which Julie doesn’t get enough credit for) and finally gave Batman his “Moriarty” character as well.
So when you combine all those elements, I think that while there was a group of people, Denny & Neal (especially as a team) are head and shoulders above the rest.
Agree the O’Neil - Adams team hit the mark better than any of the others. I was a little pleasantly surprised to find Frank Robbins while no O’Neil produced some very credible Batman stories, particularly his Man-Bat Debut with Adams
Both played big roles, to be fair. Denny did the work firmly but relatively quietly to show that you can tell darker, more serious Batman stories. Then Miller (with the help of O’Neil, as he as an editor for DKR) basically kicked doors down and blared it through a megaphone and made people take notice.
I’d say helped along with Moore’s Watchmen kicked the door down and took the megaphone Moore already has, and used it.
But some of that was cultural as well. Comics had fallen to comic shops as the sales point. You didn’t find TDKR or Watchmen at woolthworths. Sales were slowing, but because they had turned into more niche media because of comics shops, you had a more intense and committed fan base as well, and that base wasn’t primarily made up of 12 year olds, but adults. You had reached a time where some comic book creators were becoming stars in their own right. Miller has already gotten some notice by conventional media because of his run on Daredevil. We were in the midst of Reagan & Thatcher.
Both TDKR and Watchmen are great books but they were also books that came out at the right time on the right sociopolitical climate. Society was ready to embrace them and thought had started to change that comics were (could be) a form of serious art.
@TravisMorganI love Ra’s la ghoul’s character