DC History Club: The Flash and the Launch of the Silver Age, Discussion and 'Vote and Defend' - Jan 2020

That one is pretty bad. She doesn’t start this bad, just more bemoaning her boyfriend being perpetually late. Tomorrow, I’ll post my Hepburn/Billingsley theory.

I’m not here yet, just read the second Jay/Barry issue as they build towards the Rouges.

I finished

vol 3 silver age 133 147 almost four hundred pages

Found out there was a volume 4
Bought it and looked quickly in page mode on my phone seemed to be more of the same

Volume 3 was entertaining and kept my interest

It contains
Goldrn Age Flash.with cameo of Justice Society
Very good team.up with Elongated Man
A team up with Green. Lantern
A couple of Kid Flash solo stories
A women speadster from another dimension
Two stories with the father of Iris.
A lot of the Rogues in action including the Flash from the future with the yellow suit.

Barry is never seen at work

Iris seems to tolerate Barry because he takes her to dinner and other places
Otherwise I think Iris is either waiting to find someone better or thinks that telling Barry about his laziness will change him
This version.of Iris will only like Barry if she finds out he is the Flash. Very Lois Lane and Clark Kent relationship except they are actually dating for some reason.
Not much use of Iris as a reporter.

Will start Volume 2 next.

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Screen_Grab_Billingsley_copy
Although both were educated professional women with a superhero for a boyfriend, Lois Lane and Iris West were presented as entirely different types of modern American woman in the late ‘50s and early ‘60s. This is what I call the Hepburn/Billingsley Theorem. While she started as a tough, spunky girl reporter, by the 1950s Lois Lane had been domesticated in her appearance, desires, and emotions. Dressed in slim cut skirts and stylish hats, she was a tough competitor for stories and someone who admired Superman in the early years of the Golden Age. By the fifties, she had become an unmarried version of Barbara Billingsley’s June Cleaver with full long skirts, pill box hats and getting Superman to the alter being her primary goal in life. But, the Beaver’s mom didn’t cry as much as Lois. Iris West on the other hand from her first appearance is something else. She looks and acts the cutting edge of modern urban socialite. She’s happy with herself and for the most part appears perfectly willing to wait for her slow boyfriend to tie the knot. With her upswept her, facial features and dress you can’t help but think of Audrey Hepburn who had starred her first starring role in Sabrina in 1954.

There’s also something very chaste about Lois and Superman’s relationship. She doesn’t know his secret identity, and their “courtship” feels more out of junior high than adulthood. With Iris and Barry, their relationship started before we first meet them, they are seen in each other’s apartments, and the even take a vacation together (during which the world is conquered, Flash and Green Lantern are kidnapped to another world, and Barry and Hal have an archery contest).

I finished the 4 showcase issues. They are fun, but lack any character flaws or character development. (You can really see why Marvel took off) that being said, there’s a lot of similarities to early Marvel. Nothing is ever Magic (except the philosophers stone) everything must appear “scientific.” Also as you guys were talking about earlier, Iris is definitely in control of her relationship. Iris and Barry don’t fawn over each other, and instead it feels professional with Iris just getting annoyed at Barry for being late. (over 60 years later Barry still hasn’t learned that lesson) :flash_hv_5:

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@TurokSonOfStone1950 I did want to note that early Marvel told 24 page stories instead!

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@Nathan.Payson

That depended on the book

The old Monster titles would have a two stories one for the lead character and one fot the backup, like Iron.Man and Namor

I remember Fantastic Four Avengers X-Men Sgt Fury and the Howling Commandos and Spider Man.being one story.per issue.

Whether there were mutiple stories in a issue and the depended on the structure of the title and the quantity of writers and artists available to you.

Detective had Martian Manhunter as the backup followed by Elongated Man when Julie Schwartz took over as editor

Having multiple writers on a title helped scheduling and having inventkry pieces if writer missed deadline as Bill Finger often did.

Also it was probably easier.to write a six page Superman story.then a longer story because of his super.powers.

Stan Lee had a different problem. He was writing all the books with some help.from his brother and artist writers Kirby and Ditko. It was hard to think of so many different stories. To him writing one story was difficult enough much less two. And depending on two artists increased the odds of the output not coming in on time.

Eventually Stan encouraged Kirby and Ditko to stretch one of his plot ideas to.multiple issues, so he wouldnt have to write so many plots.

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It’s easy to forget that Stan Lee really wrote the entire first couple years of Marvel by himself. Of course we don’t know how influential the artist were in the dialogue.

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@Nathan.Payson

The thing about early Marvel was that the art migjt be different but the dialogue was consistent

Stan says he wrote all the dialogue after the art csme in. Sometimes the art would have surprises like Kirby adding a new character the Silver Surfer.

Ditko could write but didnt sound anythibg like Stan.

Kirby could not write dscent dialogue if his life depended on it. I tried to read Jimmy Olsen by.Kirby but after the 0 pages was reduced to ijust looking at the art which was spectacular. I got the gist of each story. The dialogue made the art itself less entertaining.

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The lack of flaws is definitely the flaw. But, compared to their in house rivals in the Superman and Batman shops, Barry, Iris, Ralph et al were closer to actual human adults and a significant step forward.

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No doubt about it!

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Flash 120 Land of Golden Giants clearly shows the advantages and flaws of doing the cover first.

In those days, Julie Schwartz knew that a compelling cover might cause a child to buy that issue. Even then a child could not afford to buy many comics and distribution was such that they would miss issues. That is why Julie made every issue easy to get into without any prior knowledge.

Since this is the Silver Age this is Science and Science Fiction.

We are told that there used to be only one continent and rhe characters commrnt that the current shape of the continents support that.

There is an archeological expedition to learn facts but not in a coastal area where you might think they might go. Though they are a yacht so maybe it is not too far inland.

Flash and Kid Flash encounter the giants from the cover. A lot of actuon occurs.

We have alrrady seen cavemen. One is an artist doing cave painting another educational fact

Then we learn that the group is in prehistoric times.

Then we see Only One Panel of dinosaurs in.the distance, which is

HIstorically inaccurate

The dinosaurs should have been on the cover instead and emphasized in.the story. .Kids love dinosaurs… This is a case of getting the cover idea too early, so the script could be prepared quickly.

Perhaps the writer had regrets on having to write about the giants and quotes some very controversial lines from.early Genesis, “There were giants in those days.”

Those lines are part of a paragraph that caused St Augustine and other Church leaders to state that angels (Sons of God) mated with human females and produced said giants as well as 'Men of Renown." Some imaginativr authors use those lines to indicate that is how the Greek Gods and other superhuman forces like the Irish Sidhe was created. Others with a more scientific bent cited advanced aliens rather than angels who taught various techniques resulting in Stonehenge and the pyramids.

All of the above are more interesting stories than these golden.giants.

I based my novel, as has many other writers, partly on this obscure and bizarre paragraph in Grnesis. Somehow the writers of the Bible felt they had to put that in the bible or some history from long ago would be lost.

Anyway the Flashes vibrate and e everybody goes back to the present day.

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One of the interesting aspects of reading this entire run is you can see the building of the multiverse as it happens (just like Kronos). Just finished the issue you described @TurokSonOfStone1950 when we first see the JSA. No great planned out expansion of the universe just a writer thinking “what comes next?”

On the sci-fi heavy influence, sometimes it’s nice hooks for a story like the Time Giants other times not so much.

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Flash Fact
Kanigher said he was taken off as writer for the Flash comic after a run-in with Schwartz resulted in Cary Bates getting the job.

I finished Volume 2 of the Flash. Very entertaining Very easy to read and understand. Unlike modern titles it was very easy to read on.my Android Phone.

Going to start Volume 1 tomorrow

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@dogwelder9

One event

1968 Comic Book Writers Otto Binder, Bill Finger, John Broome, Arnold Drake, and Gardner Fox and artists Kurt Schaffenberger.asked DC management for more financial benefits, including reprint payments, higher page rates and health insurance. This was a poor time to ask. None were employees, but ‘work for hire’. DC could at any time just not give them assignment. Sales at DC were declining, as sales at Marvel were increasing. Much younger writers, who were former fans, were requesting work, and available at a much lower page rate. It was not so much as people were let go, but if any DC editors was willing to use them (and after the rebellion, that was probably discouraged), that wouldn’t have lasted long.
One result:
Justice League of America 65
Gardner Fox
Justice League of America 66
Denny O Neil
Fox wrote novels. Deadman and Doom Patrol co creator Drake went to Marvel for a brief period, Binder went back to writing science fiction, Broome relocated to Paris.
Some say these writers leaving DC was the true end of the Silver Age.

There is a topics on

Fun.Silver Age Comicd

I contributed with

Everybody

Please add your favorite Silver.Age issues to this topic.

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Is their a tone or status quo shift that marks the end? In Batman, Robin goes to college and and Bruce moves to the Penthouse then O’Neil and others are brought on. Something like this for Flash?

@dogwelder9

John Broome rellcated to.Paris at some poimt, which in those days meant he could no longer be a regular contributor

Last issues of Broome on Flash

182
187 reprints
188
191
193
194 with fox
196

Then other people

Going to Paris was a big deal and maybe Broomr wrote some stories in advanve to gain.some money for his new location that was used later on from. nventory.

I wasn’t saying there was a complete purge.

Just that some people were forced out by making their lives uncomfortable.

From

Forgotten All-Star
A Biography of Gardner Fox
Jennifer DeRoss
PULP HERO PRESS

DC president Jack Liebowitz did not approve of these developments. They did get a slight pay raise; however, he began to quietly pass the writers’ assignments over to other, mostly younger, writers. Fox wasn’t certain what role Infantino had to play in these events, but he felt sure that Infantino never stuck up for the writers. It would be easy for Fox to make him the bad guy, but that isn’t who Gardner Fox was.
… Carmine told Fox that he would no longer be working with Julius Schwartz and would instead work with editor Mort Weisinger, who was notoriously difficult and controlling. That was Fox’s last straw. Tactics like these pushed every member of the group to quit. They left feeling disappointed, sad, and bitter. After dedicating a large part of their lives to the comics industry, they were treated as if they didn’t matter. Gardner’s daughter described him as devastated. Gardner’s wife said worse. She felt the writers had been gotten rid of and were treated like trash. These harsh descriptions are supported by a particular event that marks a major turn in his life. Close to Christmas, in 1968, Gardner Fox suffered a stroke. The night this occurred, he and his wife had gone to a cocktail party at his sister-in-law’s house in Greenwich, like they had many times before. It was the end of the night and everybody had begun leaving when someone looked at Gardner and commented on how drunk he seemed to be. This was a red flag to those who knew him well because Gardner drank his pina coladas without the rum. They were lucky enough to have a doctor friend there, and he realized Gardner was having a stroke. His health was never the same after that. According to his wife, it was “the DC thing” that started it all. His years of cigar smoking certainly contributed as well, but increased stress can and does create the potential for a stroke. It is rather sad and ironic that the demand item he listed most in his explanation of the Writers’ Strike was health care. Thankfully, this scary event wasn’t debilitating, and the family was able to pretend like it never happened.

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