I wish that her time as Batgirl hadn’t been erased as well but I also wish they had stuck with her as Robin for a while. She still could have become Batgirl at a later point after being Robin if someone wanted to go that route but I think her time as Robin could have been amazing and fun to read.
5 Likes
From what I remember of that time, I kind of had the same feeling in terms of story content: good characterization, boring plot.
3 Likes
When I read these issues as they were coming out, it seemed like her run as Robin was a bit longer. I guess waiting for the next issue each month was the reason, instead of binge reading like this. Still, it was always strange to me that Didio never wanted to acknowledge Stephanie as Robin. I never got the reasoning behind that.
3 Likes
My guess: considering what would happen with her in War Games and the controversy that surrounded that whole event, I think they just want to forget this period as much as possible.
3 Likes
DD question number 312
1 Like
Sorry, I didn’t understand that reference. Can you please explain?
There’s a lot of questions people have about Dan Didio’s decisions heading up DC
-
I’m going to leave that blank until we’re at the end.
-
I think Steph made a much better Robin than anyone was willing to let her be. Batman and, more importantly, the editors, seemed pretty set on this being a temporary thing from the outset. @Jay_Kay said the brevity of the arc made it feel like Steph’s hiring was to keep the book afloat until War Games started, but I always looked at it as something worse. Stephanie literally sets the entire plot of War Games in motion, specifically because she’s fired as Robin, and to the extent that the story has any emotional resonance, she provides almost all of it. The repeated scenes of her torture provide most of the tension (in a way that wasn’t really acceptable then and has only gotten less so with time), and the ultimate resolution of her part in it motivates Batman’s character change, which seemed to be the point of the story. Given all that, I always read the brevity of this arc as being a result of the fact that it was perfunctory set-up for War Games. It seemed to me that they only promoted her so they could fire her, and they kept her tenure as brief as possible so they could get to the story they really wanted to tell. Considering that her decision to ask for the job was motivated by a fairly contrived coincidence involving her relationship with Tim that she doesn’t follow up with him on, there was, frankly, a sense of sexism to the whole thing that never sat right with me, especially considering how her whole arc in War Games is handled.
So I always thought that emotional manipulation was bad enough, since editorial didn’t seem to consider how well Stephanie could work as Robin, but in-universe, Batman doesn’t seem to consider that much either. He baked his excuse for cutting her out into his acceptance of her, and forcing that characterization on Batman really paints him in a bad light. As @msgtv points out, all the other Robins have taken bigger chances, often for reasons that weren’t as good, and Batman didn’t fire them over it. So while I found the insight into how hard it would have to be to be trained by him interesting the first time, it now seems out of character, making the course correction at the end of War Games more frustrating. More consistent characterization would have caused him not to create the environment for War Games to happen, and would not have necessitated that story to get him back on track. Not to mention the fact that his being less patient with the one female Robin (in cannon) than all the others makes him look a bit sexist in a way I’m sure was not intended. The Detective Comics issue mitigates this somewhat, as it shows that she wasn’t fired for her first offense, but it also shows her exhibiting her own judgment as an asset in a way that her final outing doesn’t, and provides context for why she thought disobedience was a good idea. She saved Batman from Szaz when he really needed help, it stands to reason she would think he might really need help against Scarab and that she could provide it. She even took his note about tactics, which one could argue might have been responsible for the fight going as poorly as it did. So ultimately, that context makes Batman’s decision to fire her seem more about some code of chivalry than because she actually can’t handle herself.
But the most upsetting thing of all is that Stephanie not only proves in that Detective issue that she’d make a capable Robin, in all the books listed she proves she’d make a dramatically interesting one. The Batgirl issue is a real standout, as it seems designed to showcase how her history gives her a different perspective than any other member of the Bat Family which could have made for a lot more interesting stories.
3-4. Considering the essay I just accidentally wrote, I’ll answer those questions after doing the rest of the reading as well. Sorry for pushing any buttons I may have, and I hope you can all appreciate that doing so was not my intention.
5 Likes
You don’t have to apologize for such a well thought out and we’ll stated post. I enjoyed reading your thoughts and I think they are good ones.
I don’t think there’s any doubt that her tenure as Robin was always meant to be a temporary setup for War Games. It’s like when a character is created with those the sole intent of killing…she was basically the red shirt of the Robins, which is too bad because she was a cool Robin.
The Batgirl thing was more permanent and, I know I already said this, but that seemed like perfect role for her. perfect
It’s odd, but I prefer her in any role except Spoiler.
1 Like
No need to apologize for you excellent post here @neal.heatherly. You bring up some valid points. Steph was a great Robin who wasn’t given a fair shot. I hated that her time wearing the “R” was only as a way for them to tread water until War Games Etc. I could have lived with it if the story had been good but instead it was bad and not only that it was destructive to her character.
1 Like
Yeah, and I think it’s also fair to say that the way she’s treated in War Games is also very gross. Really, it was destructive to a lot of books at the time. For example it really derailed Birds of Prey because the other writers basically destroyed Oracle’s Watchtower without telling Gail Simone until it was being published, so she had to scramble and figure out what she was going to do with that.
But enough of that, this week we get to talk about some real good good comics, Dark Knight Returns! 
2 Likes
Carrie Kelley is awesome. Why didn’t they bring her into the main continuity in 1989? She would have been a truly unique Robin instead of…yet another dark-haired boy.
3 Likes
…Oooh, there’s an idea. There’s a really cool idea. What if her burnout parents, in a rare moment of lucidity, took a young Carrie to Haly’s Circus and saw the Flying Grayson’s perform, which caused her to figure out who Batman and Robin is.
Then one night years later, when she’s at the arcade, a group of thugs tries to hurt her and Batman, in a rage and not thinking, beats the thugs but hurts himself in the process. Carrie, quick on her feet, gets him to the Batmobile and starts the autopilot to the Cave, with her still inside…
3 Likes
Slice and dice!
1 Like
Hey, Jason was blond!
2 Likes
At least originally he was anyway. 
2 Likes
So, I downloaded Batman: the Dark Knight Returns. But, I just didn’t have it in me to read this again. This is a good example of something you love at first and as the years go by you care for it less and less. So, I paged through each issue and stopped to read the Carrie parts. It gives you a different perspective on the book and her role it in. The art is fantastic and she’s a delight, but boy Batman’s adopting her as Robin looks way worse to me. These panels to me show someone not wholly ready, but Batman wants her there for his own psychological reasons. He’s old and he wants a Robin, and to me it feels like any Robin in a storm will do.
Also, this book is so derivative and viewed today not revolutionary at all. To me now, it reads as a poor mashup of Watchmen and Judge Dreed.
Care to elaborate on that last point? I’m not the biggest fan of this one either, but I’m not sure I really understand the comparison.
On Judge Dread it’s mainly the visuals and the mutants and state of Gotham just looks and feels very much like MegaCity One. The giant tank for instance. From Watchmen he borrows the aging president and the use of Superman as a government agent, I admit, this is probably more about feel for me than a direct lifting of story elements.
1 Like