Agreed.
@BrightKnight, I completely agree. It doesn’t need saving. I can’t tell you how many articles I see every time a DC movie comes out now where they proclaim “This will SAVE the DCEU” If they continue to make movies, isn’t that in itself an indicator it doesn’t need saving?
People will always point out to the trilogy of studio-interfered movies (BVS, Suicide Squad and Justice League) as the death of the DCEU, and yet, here we are with back to back critical and financial successes, but it’s like some people don’t want to let go of those three movies because it’s the only weapon they have. I’m not saying everyone is like this, by the way, but you see a lot.
It would be nice if we could all stop worrying about “Saving” the movies and just enjoy the new stuff we have. This problem is like a scab…it’s not gonna go away if you keep picking at it.
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@argelisjiminian1.21536 That would certainly work! But rumor has it the Flash movie won’t be based on Flashpoint. But if it IS, I hope that’s how they explain the new Supes and Bats. We just need Ezra Miller to stay on board to make that movie happen!
I think Shazam was a fantastic movie and he was a great character to make a more light hearted fun movie.
But to say it will “save” the DCEU would mean it needs saving to begin with. I personally have been enjoying the DC movies coming out. I haven’t been letting other people’s opinions keep me from enjoying seeing the hero’s I’ve grown up coming to the big screen.
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Only christian bale can save the DCEU…
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@BrightKnight Marvel’s shared universe started in 2008, when ticket prices averaged $7.18, and with IM3, they’d accrued $10,292,623,736. the DCEU, starting in 2012 when ticket prices averaged about $7.96, has currently accumulated $11,200,871,217. All this based on Box Office Mojo’s estimations.
So yes, DC films have technically made more money, but not much more; they’ve barely squeaked by, and only by diverting from Zack Snyder’s tone(deafness) and starting their universe (by circumstance, not design) when average ticket prices were comparatively higher. Besides, making a lot of money for the studio is not all it takes to make a movie good. Even Batman & Robin made its budget back.
@superby Just because the fish-whisperer and an updated Big Red Cheese have good movies, does not make the problems with previous movies go away, especially since they’re interconnected. What certainly doesn’t help is Zack Snyder popping up every other week with a new excuse to yell at people who dare suggest he isn’t perfect. Considering how long Warner Bros. clung to the sinking ship that was his twisted vision, I think people deserve their skepticism, even if a couple new movies managed to not suck. Condition people to expect nothing, and the slightest little something gets them all excited. It’s been something DC’s been counting on a lot in recent years, both in terms of film and comics.
All movies are Elseworlds.
Beyond that, I would submit that Zack wanted to tell a story that looked at what it might really be like if Superman arrived and we didn’t start from the assumption that he was a good guy. At what being Batman for 20 years might do to Bruce Wayne’s soul, only to have all his work mocked by two aliens who created thousands of orphans in the course of a single fistfight. To examine what might be keeping the other members of the Justice League from realizing their own internal heroism. And to view these incredible people with the awe and majesty and terror they deserve. And while he certainly got hardcore during that weekend event, I think it was because he’s been listening to people willfully misinterpret and misunderstand his work for 3 years and he finally got a chance to speak his piece to the true haters.
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I think you’re giving Snyder way too much credit. People aren’t “willfully misinterpreting” his work, he just didn’t tell his stories very well. If he’s still making up reasons for plot holes years after his movies, that’s on him, not the audience. He didn’t deconstruct Bats, Supes, or anyone, he warped them for his teen-angst fanfiction. He wanted spectacle, and thought poorly conceived pseudo-philosophy would make the movies appear smarter than they are. He confuses a world where everyone’s a cynical jerk with “the real world”, and I wonder if that’s because he’s a cynical jerk that’s pissy because not enough people think he’s right about everything. A boy is saved from drowning and it’s treated like a bad thing. Snapping someone’s neck is treated like a last resort when available alternatives weren’t even considered. Stuff happened not by “realistic” standards, but because Snyder wanted them to happen. He never understood these characters, he understood how he wanted them to be in his bleak and depressing worldview. If he’s fed up with people criticizing his work, then he has only himself to blame. He wanted heroes to be less like heroes, and more like him, indulging in revenge killing, mindless violence, and copious amounts of lame excuses. He’s not deep and thought-provoking, he’s shock-value pretending to be deep and thought-provoking. Professional critics, who know how to discern deeper themes from narratives, panned BvS for a reason, and it wasn’t to “pick on poor little Zack”.
“If we didn’t start from the assumption he was a good guy”? He saves people, so that means…he’s out to kill us all? Snyder didn’t just confuse cynicism for realism, he confused it with skepticism, too! Even in the first Christopher Reeve movie, or the 90’s animated series, there was skepticism that Superman was on the level, but he showed he was, by continuing to both do good and be good. He was there as a friend looking to help. But that’s apparently a foreign concept to Zack; not enough blood spilled. If there’s even one percent of people that might think Supes was up to no good as he saves a kitten from a tree, that means everyone on Earth must think the same thing (apparently, that’s how math works).
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No DC needs a full reboot. This " shared universe " is a joke.
I think DC would be making a big mistake if they just sit on their laurels when it comes to Superman. Not being able to make a character as significant as Superman work with critics and general audiences is not good publicity, no matter how much success they have with less popular characters. On the other hand, I think it would be beneficial if fandom relaxed a bit when it comes to a) the whole extended universe thing, and b) comic book accuracy. I for one, am tired of hearing the terms “DCEU” and “Snyder cut”. Just want a good follow ups to Man of Steel and Justice League. Can’t be that hard, Hollywood.
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@markhb, yes, those are all good points.
All movies are indeed elseworlds. Batman spans the whole range from Adam West Batman to Michael Keaton Batman to Christian Bale Batman to Lego Batman. They’re as different as they can be and yet they’re all valid versions. To point at Zack Snyder and say we should be mad at him because he changed the characters too much, that’s just a selfish way of looking at it, like “My favorite version is the only real version!”
Zack Snyder dared to give us a superhero world where violence has consequences, where Superman expresses anguish over being forced to kill, not one where he happily throws the bad guy to his death in an icy pit, all with a smile on his face… where Batman’s years of consumption of violence takes its toll on him over time, like it should, if his life of darkness and his suffering is taken seriously by the narrative… where destroying half a city leads to questions, and doubt, and fear afterwards, and a whole sequel story dealing with with the consequences, not one where the heroes can just eat lunch together afterwards in a joke scene, like the citywide death and destruction on the same scale was no big deal.
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Am I the only one who didn’t like Cavill’s Superman?