🔍 BEHIND THE MASK 🔎 Wonder Woman Edition

General Discussion
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@deku I just read your post from earlier on in the conversation. Right on.

Gender inequalities exist, and the sooner people recognize it, the sooner we (women) can “get over it” (:roll_eyes:).

One of the biggest reasons men refer to strong, direct women as “aggressive or b*tchy” is because they clearly feel women should be more submissive and speak our minds less.

Then there are the cases where women might actually be behaving a little overly aggressively or feeling the “need” to avoid dresses and skirts, in efforts to draw less attention to the fact that they are female. Which sucks, because women should not have to sacrifice their femininity/womanhood for the sake of being treated equally.

I understand women are by nature different. But what exactly about a women’s nature says she should be respected less, seen as less, or PAID less?

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Who decides these things? And our society blindly (or maybe uncaringly) perpetuates them.

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What makes Wonder Woman a part of the Trinity?
To me, Batman is the brains of the trinity and superman is the brawn. But Wonder Woman is the heart. Yes, Batman and Superman have a very high standard ethical code. But Wonder Woman’s code is rooted in myth and legends. And she carries around a lasso of truth that forces her to see the truth and see what’s right and wrong. And I think she’s the bravest of the three. There are sometimes challenges that are too great for Batman and Superman, but there will never be a challenge too great for Wonder Woman. Even if she knows she will likely lose the battle, she won’t give up and she will keep fighting until either she or the enemy falls.
Note: While I do think WW is heart, BM is brains, and SM is brawn, they all have a solid mix of the three. Wonder Woman has the wisdom of Athena and she’s the greatest fighter in the DCU. Batman is one of the world’s greatest martial artists and has a vast array of weapons and he came up with the strict no kill rule. Superman comes from a planet of alien geniuses and he always tries to save everyone using his super speed and strength.

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I agree, @jwarzy5702!
If anything, WW’s heart is her superpower. Though I must say I am quite partial to those bracelets.

More specifically, the “Bracelets of Submission”. I love how the Amazonians transformed something once used by men to subdue them into something that now acts as a source of protection.

And much like any “transformation” that may occur in a person’s life, if you look close enough, trails of the past persist.

Echos of what once was linger, reminding us of where we come from.

Blocking bullets & breaking falls, the Bracelets of Submission protect the freedom and strength that the Amazonian woman wearing them has come to embody, while also serving as a reminder of the oppression they fought to overcome.

Reminding them of their strength. Motivating them to keep going. Empowering them even more, with each bullet blocked.

I love the Lasso of Truth as well. But that’s a whole 'nother post… lol

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:mag_right: What unique contribution does Wonder Woman make to the Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman collective of the DC Trinity?

  • I think others have touched on this, but I agree with the Truth (also Heart)/Hope/Justice relationship.

:mag_right: What are the traits of Wonder Woman that helped to create an unwavering icon for females around the globe for decades?

  • For me, it’s the fact that she can do everything that she can, while embodying both traditionally masculine traits (expert warrior, super strength, enhanced durability) and traditionally feminine traits (compassion, grace, empathy). I think too often in pop culture/media characters are shoved in one direction or the other, but Diana has a great balance that really resonates.

:mag_right: Is “paradise” only possible for women, with men out of the picture?

  • No. One, I think everyone has a different view of paradise (mine certainly includes men and women as well as flying unicorns). Two, I actually think the idea that a world full of only woman would be a joyful sisterhood singing ‘kumbaya’ is ridiculously absurd. Women are capable of being merciless, power hungry, and hateful. Individuals with those traits would still exist in a female-only world and would still seek to dominate and rule/hold power over others. In my opinion cutting men out of the picture due to their being ‘other’ just exasperates the divisiveness problem. As someone else mentioned, a different ‘other’ would just be targeted next, until there’s no one left (also not paradise). I think we should all seek to understand one another (i.e. seek truth) and work together (i.e. leave our isolated islands) to build a better world - just like Wonder Woman.
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why is some times ww is just as strong as superman and she can fly, but some times they make her weaker and she can’t fly.

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@justinchaufty

That kind of thing happens to a lot of comic book characters over the years. Superman couldn’t fly in the beginning either.

In most iterations I’ve seen/read, Wonder Woman is a better fighter/warrior than Superman, while he is typically stronger/faster. The degree of how much stronger/faster or how much of a better fighter often depends on the writer, story being told, and whose book it is. Superman also has kryptonite and lack of yellow sun problems, which can be glaring weaknesses, and he typically doesn’t do as well against magic. Wonder Woman doesn’t really have weaknesses like that. I usually view the two characters as having different strengths with different skill sets and vulnerabilities, rather than one actually being weaker than the other (unless we’re being very literal and saying one hero can bench press more mountains than the other).

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I don’t believe that paradise is only possible without men.

That would infer that men are inherently violent, power hungry, and capable of evil, while women are not. It would further indicate that every woman who ever engaged in one of the above (and there are female serial killers, criminals, etc) would only be capable of doing such because they were somehow infected or altered by men.

That idea is just squicky.

Paradise, instead, is only achievable when we grow beyond greed, beyond ism’s, and beyond hatred. When we learn to love each other, when we learn to love our planet, then and only then can we find paradise.

At least that’s my opinion.

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First, I need to ask-- what does ‘squicky’ mean?

Now that’s outta the way-- in order to comment, I’m going to have to encompass. This whole Trinity thing has been making me more and more uncomfortable-- the greatest fictional heroes in history acting more and more like Orwell’s Big Brother every day. Easy for Superman and Batman to accidentally take that step-- but Wonder Woman should be more questioning. By definition of character, she is best able to make a decision without her upbringing or her wounds affecting her thoughts and feelings-- she’s the one who set aside her world to make the one at large better. That’s kind of a superpower, in itself, in the meta world she lives in. Superman may be about truth and justice and defending the world, and Batman all about vengeance and justice and protecting the streets. But Diana-- she may protect the world, and the streets, but justice is a necessary sideline. She’s the one who protects the idea of FREEDOM, in all its forms, and the only one who knows-- always knows-- that as often as not, she has to protect humanity from itself. She’s lest prone to notions of good and evil, and her hope of a better world is more grounded. But fighting for freedom, on all its levels, has to include everyone-- so Paradise has to include everyone.

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Agreed, @Misfit!
Conceptually, it may be a little difficult to see that “paradise” (more or less the freedom provided on Themyscira) for women can exist with men, due to our society’s current situation and track record.
But if we’re gonna talk hypothetically here, then sure! And why not go ahead and throw in world peace, no global warming, and all that other good stuff while we’re at it!

Ok.
So, maybe that was a little extra.

But, I think the active point here is that, until men allow it (or in the least the ones in positions of power and influence), how can a woman feel like she exists in any sort of paradise if she isn’t being treated equally? If she isn’t free to do the same things men are free to do?

I agree with the point that you and many others have made. The “general” notion of paradise would ideally include both sexes. And I don’t think the “general” notion of paradise can really exist without the other sex present.

But I think we’re talking more about the idea of “paradise” in relation to women’s rights and freedom to be without suppression/oppression.

And I think I can speak for at least MOST women when I say, “We do not want men to cease to exist.” We just want them to treat women as equals, not inferiors. Like people, not things.

My idea of paradise is women and men, coexisting - men being men, women being women, each respecting one another in their respective roles, but also respecting one another as human beings.

Human beings who have the right to want whatever they want - regardless of gender - without fear of suppression/oppression and with every right in the world to expect basic respect in it.

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Quite frankly, I’ve never thought about waiting “until men allow it” for anything. Initiative, decision making, and confidence in one’s abilities are vital for success in many of life’s endeavors. In order to grow, one has to seek and seize opportunities. I know the world isn’t perfect, but let’s not give up what control and power we as individuals have. Let’s be proactive, not passive! It’s way more empowering. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Oh, I very much agree, @c02goddess.16092!

Choosing to use the word “allow” in that statement was more of a sarcasm kinda thing than anything.

“ Initiative, decision making, and confidence in one’s abilities”

All of these things can exist for women, without the permission of men. But imagine for a second being in a relationship with someone who has made it clear that they don’t want you to do a certain thing and you do it anyway, because you don’t need their permission to do you, right?

Right. But, I would venture to say that the mood in that relationship, immediately following the woman’s decision to “do it anyway”, is anything but paradise. lol

In order for “paradise” to exist, (freedom across the board – in addition to good feeling, harmony, peace, etc.), the guys would kinda have to be in on it.

Men AND women would have to allow it.

Both sexes would have to ALLOW a woman the chance to take office, lead corporations, make global decisions, etc.

Women wou ld have to stop allowing men to dictate what it means to be a woman or what her role is.
Women have to take charge of their narratives and roles in society.

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lol Why do I have to literally stop myself everytime I’m writing these posts…

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Removing the sarcasm from my statement:
Rather than men “allowing” women to exist freely, they would need to “respect” women’s right to exist freely.

IDEALLY, they would respect it AND appreciate what could and would come of it.

Bc for any form of “paradise” to truly exist, a true form of “respect” would also have to exist.
(Even if men “allowed” women to do what they wanted, this would still leave room for that whole sour mood thing).

It has to be a mutual thing.

Ok, now I’m rambling. Bye.

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@KittyKrawler

I was thinking in more general terms. I wasn’t advocating acting in a vaccuum or becoming a super villain. :slight_smile:

Also, I fully agree that men and women have to work together to achieve ‘paradise’ like you described.

I think I just view the word ‘allow’ differently. To me, ‘allow’ in this context is giving up control or a decision point I have to another. I’m surrendering my own agency. (And I probably read waaaay too much into this, haha.)

In my personal relationships, I don’t think about whether my friends or family (husband included) will allow me to do something. If I want to do something that could impact them, then I talk to them. Together, we can try to find the best solution. If there truly is some insurmountable ultimatum between me and someone, then a hard decision has to be made by both individuals. Regardless of the outcome, if I choose to do my thing or agree to not do it, the decision is still mine. I own it. I weighed the benefits and consequences and made my choice, for better or for worse. I own that. The other person does the same with their decision.

For the career example, I agree that an elected politician needs people to vote for them, but the politician never had control over the people (erm, no super villains again), so the politician isn’t giving up that control. The politician isn’t allowing others to make a decision for them. The vote decision belongs to the voters.

Anyway, I think I also need to stop myself from writing more… :slight_smile:

Tldr: Wonder Woman is awesome!

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Ooo, I like changing it to respect!

I wish I had read that before I posted my rambling response!

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You’re absolutely right!
Perhaps, “allow” was a poor choice in words, considering the nature of this conversation. lol

Again, I agree! And I don’t think you were reading any further into than you should have.

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@c02goddess.16092 haha yes! I was just thinking the same thing. Both of you make great points though!
I like that you guys ’ difference in perspectives brought about a larger view of the same idea!

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ALSO. Yes.
WW is awesome. :raised_hands:

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