Who should be Batmans true Girl? Let’s theres tons of evidence for our 3 candidates:
Talia al Ghul.
Batgirl offeres more of the idea of the relationship between them in the entirety of the animated series that can extend into Batman Beyond, Mystery of the Batwoman, etc. We see flirt and even at ome point know they did date during the Batman Beyind timeline and we know she becomes pregnant with Bruce’s child.
Catwoman is most likely the obvious choice from the constant flirting through our the animated series, live action, the arkham games and even the comics. Batman Hush proves this as well bu having the two date and in the comics almost even get married. Plus in one universe their daughter grows up to be Huntress.
Talia al Ghul. The one woman you actually has conceived Bruce Wayne’s child, Damian. But putting him aside we know theres a connection to them that we rarely see but is stronger than we get to see. We know Ras wants to have Bruce marry his daughter and replace him and Talia will always love Bruce but at the same time we rarely get to see them have a whole lot of interactions.
I want to know which of the 3 is the best girl of our boy Bruce.
Batgirl is like 20. It would be pretty gross if Batman (usually written around like 35-40) started dating her.
True, however rit didnt stop them in the animated series.
@nickmiller, but it is why they only explicitly mentioned it in the one DCAU tie in. Babs is better for Nightwing I think (although Nightwing is best with Starfire in my opinion, but that’s a topic for a different thread).
Catwoman is probably the only one that can really keep up with Bruce. Also Talia is kinda sorta evil, and often seems like she only wants Bruce because of the accomplishment, like a target. Their actual relationship is waifer thin.
But let’s face it. Bats only has one true ship: VENGEANCE
Bruce/Babs is Bruce Timm’s pet ship, so it pops up periodically in adaptations he produced, but it’s not really a mainstream pairing otherwise. She was actually written as closer to his age when she was introduced, but not so close it wouldn’t be weird.
Talia’s personality and relationship with Bruce have been inconsistent. As originally written, there may have been some genuine chemistry there, but once Grant Morrison rewrote her into a megalomaniacal rapist who was only interested in having his babies, any chance of that relationship working out went down the tubes. I feel like if you wrote Talia as coming around to genuinely seeking redemption, I’d find the relationship more compelling, but instead she gave into her loyalty to her father and never looked back.
That leaves Catwoman and, to some extent, Wonder Woman. The Bruce/Diana stuff was largely only in the DCAU as well, aside from a few scattered teases in the comics. While it kind of worked for the DCAU, I think it would be very limiting for both characters if it were heavily pursued in the comics. They both just do their own thing too much for it to be convenient to use them together.
Selina has had some degree of tension with Bats ever since she was introduced. While part of the appeal of the relationship is that they can never quite make it work, there’s a symbolic symmetry to it where Catwoman represents the simultaneous danger and allure of Batman’s mission while Batman represents Catwoman’s conscience that sets her apart from your typical Arkham loony. But for them to actually be together, one of them would have to compromise (Selina would have to go straight or Bruce would have to willingly allow a criminal to continue stealing things from people), and they’re both too strong to do that.
So, basically what TornadoSoup said, except with the added note that Catwoman also only has one true ship: SWEET LOOT
Love the feed back everyone.
I have never gotten how people say Babs is to young for Bruce but people never seem to mention that the Joker/Harley age gap is just as big if not bigger. Babs also has an “old soul” and much more mature than her age. So I don’t have a problem with them being together. Jim G. Is the real blocker on that relationship. He couldn’t maintain any objectivity if Bruce & Babs we’re together.
Selina is Selina, neither is going to change and neither really wants the other to change. They are star-crossed and they know it.
Talia is the one for Bats, even if it is an long distance relationship. Bruce will always look at Talia as the potentially redeemable. She is the one who could decide to change and if she did it could work.
Diana & Bruce are the ultimate FWB. They have to much respect for each other’s missions and know that a real ship would compromise both their missions. So they won’t go there, but they have a sexual chemistry. Arguably the best sexual chemistry of the four.
That means Talia is the true ship, but it just ain’t happen while her dad is still alive. I can see them finally getting together in their late 50’s.
The whole point of the Joker/Harley relationship is that it’s abusive and sick. It’s not meant to healthy or normal.
I know Sherlock Holmes has appeared in DC Comics, but I see Batman as his DC Comics counterpart (why I became interested in DC Comics, the similar detective approach). So, Batman needs an “Irene Adler”. What makes an “Irene Adler”? Someone who can outsmart and outmaneuver him, as well as be able to tempt him.
Therefore, while Catwoman has escaped prison more times than she should because Batman liked her, I think there is something to a daughter of The Demon. Not only can Talia resurrect herself, as long as damage inflicted is reparable, she has also proven to be more cunning and elusive than Catwoman.
I have not read a lot on Talia, but Catwoman has Batman’s interest since the ‘40s. I have read that Talia is vile and manipulative. Should that be true, then Talia is not most like Irene. But, neither is Catwoman.
Last, Batman is somewhat like Sherlock Holmes, but not fully inspired by him. Therefore, despite an initial vote for Talia, I say Catwoman.
*While some of this could have been deleted, it may bring up some points for future discussion. Usually, to correct a mistake in my response or understanding because of my limited comic knowledge. But, this was written out of fun and will be if future conversation occurs.
Out of those three, I’d have to go with Catwoman, no question. But everyone knows his true love is Guy Gardner.
I’m on the wagon of not understanding why people think Babs is too young for Bruce. She’s an adult who is not only fully capable of thinking for herself, but also fully capable of decking anybody with enough nerve to tell her they don’t think she can. Autonomy, she’s got it.
That being said, I still don’t ship it. To absolutely no one’s surprise, Imma vote BatCat.
The issue with Barbara/Bruce is primarily in the real-world creative process behind the ship. She’s not a real person. She’s a fictional woman (varying in age from 15 to her early 20s, depending on the story) who is written more often than not by middle-aged men. Ergo, it’s not really the story of how Babs proudly exhibits her bodily autonomy, but rather the story of how past-their-prime dudes use the character to play out their own fantasies of hooking up with a young woman.
SUBJECTIVE OPINION WARNING, ALERT, ALERT Disclaimer: your brain may melt upon reading. User @Star0fLyra cannot be held responsible for any such occurrence.
I don’t see creators inserting themselves into Barbara’s relationships any more than I see them inserting themselves into any other young female’s relationships. Age gap relationships happen in the real world -a lot- so I don’t mind seeing that reflected in comics. Do creators self insert? Definitely, I just never notice But I’m on the biased side of that anyway, because I like seeing those kinds of relationships (as long as they are healthy!!) being represented.
Batman’s true love is Gotham City. His mistress is Vengeance. His love-child is justice.
I found the whole BatCat wedding hilarious. I just don’t see them as a serious couple. I don’t even buy Selina as the emotional support she’s cast as. She’s an independent woman who like Batman, that doesn’t mean they have some kind of close connection. They’re just similar and different in all the wrong ways to me. Selina steals, Bruce hates crime, put them together long enough I only believe they’d just fight over that. Forever.
Wonderbat is the true ship for me. Watch the justice league tv show and tell me it isn’t great. While they’ve got different approaches and temperments sure, Diana and Bruce both push back at what their respective societies expect of them. And to me they both seem kind of isolated from the rest of the league. Batman’s broody and Wonder Woman isn’t a tom girl like Hawkgirl. They’re both sort of royalty. Perhaps best of all, Diana loves kids and so does Bruce.
Alright, since it’s being discussed a little, I’ll grant that the age difference isn’t necessarily an automatic deal-breaker for Bruce/Babs. It’s not immoral or anything, just kinda weird, and there’s nothing wrong with kinda weird just on its own.
So, age aside, my first and biggest issue is that I just think they have zero chemistry romantically. I mean, there’s some tension between them that you don’t see with some of the other Bat-Family members, but I see that as more just a natural result of two control freaks colliding with each other.
As a secondary issue (and one that’s somewhat related to the age issue, but perhaps more to the point), while Barbara is certainly a very intelligent, very mature adult, Bruce is still an authority figure in relation to her as the “patriarch” of the Bat-family. It’s especially uncomfortable since you almost never see Batman paired with Barbara as Oracle, which is the role where she was written as more of an equal to him, instead of the explicitly junior role of Batgirl. I’m not trying to ascribe any sinister intent on the part of writers who favor this pairing, but it’s another thing that makes it kind of uncomfortable.
Didn’t Bruce Timm even say in an interview about the Killing Joke movie that Batgirl’s relationship with Batman was a mistake the two of them made due to Batman not having the best parental skills? Or am I horribly misremembering that? If that is what he said… that’s creepy.
I think the biggest problem with Babs (at least relating to her age) is she’s BatGIRL. If she were called Batwoman, then maybe it would be different (but Batwoman’s taken, and there are several major reasons why she can’t be with Bruce that I don’t think I need to explain). As Batjamags said, Bruce is very much the “Dad” in the family. Maybe it’s not so much the age, but the power gap.
Also I think Babs is just too much of an independent character. And I don’t mean it in the sense that she doesn’t need a man to be happy (although she really doesn’t, but still deserves one if she really wants). It’s more because so many people, myself included, care about her separately from Bruce. And Bats just isn’t one to settle down or have a real lasting relationship at all. But it would be really hard for them to break up and yet keep both characters as ones you want to root for in their own books (though not impossible). I think Catwoman is more like Bats in that ultimately, she’s not looking for a real steady, permanent relationship. Same with Talia. But I feel Babs is likely to end up in a quieter life, maybe as a librarian or a teacher or something else entirely. Still important, still an actively good natured role, just a more normal one. The fight’s not in her blood like with Batman, probably because she’s a much more well adjusted person. I think that’s why Dick and Babs works better in the long run. They’re both relatively well adjusted, considering their circumstances, and have similar life experiences. But Bats… well he’ll always be Batman.
Maybe they could have a quick fling here or there, but as I said before, Bats only has eyes for the voluptuous, leggy body of VENGEANCE!
HQ & Mr. J relationship is unhealthy, but I never hear people talk about it being unhealthy because of the age gap.
If all parties are of the age of consent, then they can be with whomsoever they choose. As @StarOfLyra points out. Relationships with people of different age ranges happens all the time. If both parties are adults and consent, what’s the issue?
Also, I’ll buy the “patriarch” thing for Robin but for Batgirl, Bruce is more a mentor. She has a father with whom she has a pretty good, healthy relationship with.
If Babs & Bruce don’t care about the age gap, why should we? I think a lot of people only see Babs from the BTAS version. She is historically much older. 25 and Bruce is early 30s maybe mid 30s. If people wanna get “creeped out” by a 10 year age difference, then they are gonna find plenty of “creepy” relationships out there. Even if those relationships are healthy, non-abusive relationships.